Potters Bar Engineering Works 17th Feb 2019

[Aictos]

Two things, one what is Network Rail actually doing to result in a total liner block at Potters Bar today with services being diverted via Hertford and a hourly shuttle between Hertford and London but also with National Rail Enquires, TOCs and Network Rail who is actually responsible for ensuring travel information is correct?

Amended service between Stevenage and London via Potters Bar on Sunday 17 February

Start date 17/02/2019
End date 17/02/2019

Route affected

Hull Trains between Hull and London Kings Cross

Grand Central between Sunderland / Bradford Interchange and London Kings Cross

Great Northern between Kings Lynn / Cambridge / Peterborough / Letchworth Garden City / Hitchin and London Kings Cross

London North Eastern Railway between Inverness / Aberdeen / Edinburgh / Glasgow Central / Newcastle / Leeds / York / Harrogate / Skipton and London Kings Cross

Thameslink between Cambridge / Peterborough / Hitchin and London Kings Cross


Train operators affected
Grand Central; Great Northern; Hull Trains; London North Eastern Railway; Thameslink;

Description

Engineering work is taking place between Stevenage and London via Potters Bar, closing all lines.

Grand Central

Trains to / from London Kings Cross will be diverted via Hertford, extending journey times.

Hull Trains

Trains to / from London Kings Cross will be diverted via Hertford, extending journey times.

London North Eastern Railway

Until 09:20, trains will be unable to run to / from London Kings Cross. Trains will be revised to start / terminate at Doncaster / Peterborough / Stevenage.

After 09:20, trains to / from London Kings Cross will be diverted via Hertford. Trains from London Kings Cross are expected to leave 15 minutes early and trains arriving at London Kings Cross are expected to do so 15 minutes later than scheduled.

Great Northern / Thameslink

Trains between London King's Cross and Peterborough / Cambridge will be diverted between Alexandra Palace and Stevenage and will be unable to call at stations via Welwyn Garden City. A revised timetable will operate with extended journey times.

Services between Moorgate and Stevenage / Welwyn Garden City will not run. A shuttle train service will run between Moorgate and Finsbury Park / Alexandra Palace.

Replacement buses will operate calling at stations between Alexandra Palace and Stevenage via Welwyn Garden City, and also between Hertford North and Stevenage.

Check before you travel:

You can plan your journey using the National Rail Enquiries Journey Planner

You can find the location of your bus replacement by checking station signs or by searching for your station on our station information pages

Bicycles:

Non folding bicycles are not allowed on rail replacement bus services at any time. Folding bicycles are allowed if fully folded. For more information, please see here.

Project Information:

You can read more about engineering work and why it is necessary.

As you can see not very passenger friendly to those who travel between Hertford and London as it doesn't say how their service is affected so who is responsible for this?

 

[The Planner]

Rail, sleeper and ballast replacement between New Southgate and New Barnet. Depending on which lines they are doing then it will probably need an all line block with engineering trains sat in the possession.

 

[Class 170101]

Rail, sleeper and ballast replacement between New Southgate and New Barnet. Depending on which lines they are doing then it will probably need an all line block with engineering trains sat in the possession.

I frankly hope there is more going on than just that. If there isn't however it wouldn't surprise me but it is disgraceful if so!

 

[Aictos]

Rail, sleeper and ballast replacement between New Southgate and New Barnet. Depending on which lines they are doing then it will probably need an all line block with engineering trains sat in the possession.

Okay that's south of Potters Bar so is it really necessary to block all lines from Stevenage to Alexandra Palace via Welwyn Garden City regardless?

Could Network Rail and the TOCs not just come up with a alternative plan which instead of terminating/starting the 2CXXs at Stevenage as they're doing today, could not an alternative plan involve them at doing this instead at Welwyn Garden City (at a push Potters Bar) instead with services either terminating and starting back using Platform 1/2 there as has been done before using dispatch staff for the movement to the North as will no doubt happen at Stevenage or terminate on Platform 1/2 and use the flyover to start back the service on Platform 3/4?

With a rail replacement bus service in operation between Welwyn Garden City and Alexandra Palace which is a more attractive option for passengers.

Any engineering trains could wait either in the Up Yard at Welwyn Garden City or wait in Potters Bar itself.

 

[717001]

I've seen mention of work at Knebworth as well, but don't know what.

Overall it is major, as it runs for 6 consecutive Sundays

 

[The Planner]

I frankly hope there is more going on than just that. If there isn't however it wouldn't surprise me but it is disgraceful if so!

Why? If it is on the centre lines then no one will be doing ALO and if there are engineering trains sat on adjacent lines how are you meant to get trains past?

 

[87015]

All NRE info is provided by each TOC.

 

[DarloRich]

I frankly hope there is more going on than just that. If there isn't however it wouldn't surprise me but it is disgraceful if so!

Why, considering your undoubted expertise, would this be disgraceful?

 

[Aictos]

Why? If it is on the centre lines then no one will be doing ALO and if there are engineering trains sat on adjacent lines how are you meant to get trains past?

Sorry to have to ask this but if you do have to use terms such as ALO above could you please advise what the term actually means ie what does it stand for as just ALO means nothing to me.

 

[Class 170101]

Why? If it is on the centre lines then no one will be doing ALO and if there are engineering trains sat on adjacent lines how are you meant to get trains past?

Why, considering your undoubted expertise, would this be disgraceful?

One would hope that possessions and access are lined up such they are being fully utilised. One or two worksites in 20 miles doesn't look good from the passenger or operators point of view particularly when NR come calling for additional access post CPPP.

 

[The Planner]

But as I often say, the operators can always dispute it and not accept it.

 

[Essexman]

Now there's a signal failure and BBC saying Crystal Palace fans won't get to Doncaster until half time.

Sorry, I've just seen there's another thread for this.

 

[Cavan]

Signal failure at retford caused major disruption. My train 1y23 was 118 late into kings x.Trains at retford had to be talked through at reds for a good period so the delays built up.

 

[Aictos]

But as I often say, the operators can always dispute it and not accept it.

But if I can be allowed to be cynical, it's sometimes in their best interests not to dispute it and just accept it even when they have the resources to run more shuttle services.

Point in hand, the 2CXXs I mentioned above which could have been disputed by GTR who could have asked to start them back from Welwyn Garden City which even with minimal resources would only require a single person to be provided to shut down the unit/units on Platforms 1/2, let it shunt across to Platforms 3/4 by way of the flyover and have it start from there.

It would mean passengers from Cambridge to Welwyn Garden City could stay on until WGC lessing the strain on Stevenage and indeed would mean a shorter journey by bus as it would be between Welwyn Garden City and Alexandra Palace instead of Stevenage to Alexandra Palace.

Today GTR are running express rail replacement bus services from Stevenage to Alexandra Palace and well as a all stops rail replacement bus service from Welwyn Garden City to Alexandra Palace which means for those travelling between Hitchin and say New Southgate they have two buses to catch with one connection at Stevenage and one at Welwyn Garden City which wastes time.

Surely anyone would have thought it might actually be more better just run it so you had half hourly all stations rail replacement from Welwyn Garden City to Alexandra Palace and a half hourly express rail replacement calling only at Hatfield and Potters Bar so just one change from stations between Alexandra Palace and Stevenage plus stations north of at WGC?

The station is perfectly set up to do this and as I pointed out was done in First Capital Connect times when a more indepth amended working was in place by this I mean a hourly rail shuttle from the north would terminate on Platform 1/2 at Welwyn Garden City while a hourly rail shuttle from Potters Bar would terminate on Platform 3 (running wrong line to Potters Bar) then a rail replacement bus service was in operation between Potters Bar and New Barnet/Alexandra Palace with a rail shuttle to Kings Cross with all IC/Non Stop GNs going via Hertford.

That is far more complicated then what all parties have agreed to do today so I wonder why this option wasn't taken up as it seems to be so simple it's more or less idiot proof or should I say Homer J Simpson proof?

 

[The Planner]

ALO is adjacent line open, and as for the train service, ask the TOC, we don't tell them what to run. We can tell them what they can run but that's different.