Praying to avoid prosecution

[LilypadCicero]

Hi everyone. I got caught earlier at the London Bridge barriers today getting to work using a slightly cheaper ticket from a different station than the one I actually came from. I have done this a few times across this last month. I know this is wrong and I full accept that I made a mistake. The station officer sat me down and hit me with the my rights speech, which scared me, and recorded our conversation and made some notes. I was completely honest and didn't make it difficult. He went through my Uber app to see my previous journeys where I had done the same. He could see I was visibly distraught and he understood my situation and said that he doesn't judge my reasons to save some money. He said I seemed like a nice person - I realise this wont matter to them in the end. I was very polite and open with him. I understand that I will probably be fined and may be prosecuted for the fare, the later of which I am desperate to avoid. He gave me a Southeastern witness statement and said I will hear from them in the post. He also wouldn't let me take a picture of his notes, nor let me know his name. I am desperate to avoid prosecution, hoping for just a fine- I'm ripping my hair out to find out how likely this is? This is the first time I've ever done something like this and will never do anything like it again, I'm sure the guy could tell that too. I understand I am in the wrong, but I'm hoping for a decent outcome here, I will happily pay a fine or other costs to avoid the prosecution if I get one. If I do get bad news in the letter.. is the best way forward to find a solicitor to help me respond?

Any thoughts or advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Brissle Girl]

The first thing you can do is pay the correct fare going forward. And then you have to wait to get a letter from them, which may threaten prosecution, but will give you an opportunity to give your side of the story.

Provided you respond in an honest, cooperative and contrite way the likely outcome is that you will be offered an out of court settlement. They will almost certainly have identified other occasions and base the settlement on an administrative fee (around £150) and an Anytime Single for each journey they have identified. They are unlikely to take account for any fare already paid, so in that sense you will be paying again, but it's much better than a prosecution, which will be the inevitable consequence if you don't respond when you get a letter.

There's no need to involve a solicitor at this stage - wait until you get a letter, and then come back here, and we can help you through the process.

 

[Gloster]

Just to say that if they offer you an out of court settlement (which is likely, but not guaranteed, if you handle matters well) they will probably calculate the amount they request on the basis of an Anytime Single fare for each and every journey you made with the wrong ticket: for a return journey this will be one Single fare for the outward journey and one for the return. No allowance will be made for what you have paid or for any railcards you hold. They then add on their investigation costs, which normally start at £150 (yours shouldn’t be much more unless there is a lot you are not telling us). The total cost might be less, but you are best knowing the worst as they expect the sum to be paid in one go within a week or two of them making the offer.

As said, involving a solicitor at this point isn’t really necessary, as you may be able to sort it out with the help of this forums experts.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi everyone. I got caught earlier at the London Bridge barriers today getting to work using a slightly cheaper ticket from a different station than the one I actually came from. I have done this a few times across this last month. I know this is wrong and I full accept that I made a mistake. The station officer sat me down and hit me with the my rights speech, which scared me, and recorded our conversation and made some notes. I was completely honest and didn't make it difficult. He went through my Uber app to see my previous journeys where I had done the same. He could see I was visibly distraught and he understood my situation and said that he doesn't judge my reasons to save some money. He said I seemed like a nice person - I realise this wont matter to them in the end. I was very polite and open with him. I understand that I will probably be fined and may be prosecuted for the fare, the later of which I am desperate to avoid. He gave me a Southeastern witness statement and said I will hear from them in the post. He also wouldn't let me take a picture of his notes, nor let me know his name. I am desperate to avoid prosecution, hoping for just a fine- I'm ripping my hair out to find out how likely this is? This is the first time I've ever done something like this and will never do anything like it again, I'm sure the guy could tell that too. I understand I am in the wrong, but I'm hoping for a decent outcome here, I will happily pay a fine or other costs to avoid the prosecution if I get one. If I do get bad news in the letter.. is the best way forward to find a solicitor to help me respond?

Any thoughts or advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

If you stick with this forum ppl will help you sort this in the least worst way. So do not stress too much.

 

[FenMan]

"This is the first time I've ever done something like this"

Clearly it isn't the first time. It's the first time you have been caught deliberately buying short fares. The railway takes a very dim view of such behaviour and has the teeth to make life very uncomfortable indeed, should it choose to do so.

I'm not saying this to rub your face into the ground, but you need to be honest with yourself (and the railway) from now on. You need to persuade them that you have learned your lesson, won't repeat your past behaviour and convince them an out of court settlement (which will cost you, but won't be a criminal conviction) is the best way of resolving your situation.

And, please remember the best outcome from your perspective is their decision, not yours. You are not in control of the process, but you can influence their thinking by being responsive, open and cooperative.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Southeastern will write to you in the next few weeks asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. Normally they tend to offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with their onvestigation and who have not come to their attention before. We cannot guarantee this and they are within their right to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court should they decide to do so.

Also be aware that Southeastern will be able to research your online ticket purchasing history so if you have a history of purchasing short distance tickets then be aware that Southeastern might want to ask you about these cases as well.

When the letter arrives post a copy of it in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you. Do make sure you redact any personal details and case reference numbers before posting it.

Finally, just to be pedantic you don't want to pay a fine. A fine can only be imposed by a court as a punishment upon conviction. What you want to pay is an out of court settlement.

 

[AlbertBeale]

"This is the first time I've ever done something like this"

Clearly it isn't the first time. It's the first time you have been caught deliberately buying short fares. The railway takes a very dim view of such behaviour and has the teeth to make life very uncomfortable indeed, should it choose to do so.

I'm not saying this to rub your face into the ground, but you need to be honest with yourself (and the railway) from now on. You need to persuade them that you have learned your lesson, won't repeat your past behaviour and convince them an out of court settlement (which will cost you, but won't be a criminal conviction) is the best way of resolving your situation.

And, please remember the best outcome from your perspective is their decision, not yours. You are not in control of the process, but you can influence their thinking by being responsive, open and cooperative.

Further to this, you said that you "made a mistake"; you need to use different language when you respond to the letter from the rail company - accepting that it was a deliberate non-payment of the right fare, not a mistake. If you do get an "out of court settlement" (ie you pay them what they ask, as already explained, to make the case go away and avoid prosecution), then that doesn't mean you've been "fined" (which is something only the court can do if you plead guilty or are found guilty). If you avoid the case going to court then there's no legal fine, no criminal conviction or criminal record, and so on. An out of court settlment, avoiding formal legal consequences, is a private agreement between you and the train company - the court system is not involved at all; you stand a good chance of that outcome if you deal with their correspondence sensibly.

 

[Brissle Girl]

“Mistake” has two definitions, one of which is “an act of judgment that is misguided or wrong”. So long as it is clear in any letter that it is that meaning being used (as is indeed clear in the OP’s first post) then I would not get too hung up on its use.

 

[Greyman1]

Could you give us some clue as to what the journey actually is and we can then work out the Single rate?

 

[LilypadCicero]

Thank you everyone for your replies, I appreciate you all for you time and advice. When I get my letter I will post it here with my draft reply incorporating your above guidance. I have been stressing a great deal and feel terrible - rightly so as I really regret my actions. I know I will never do such a thing again and I will make that known in my response.

Further to this, you said that you "made a mistake"; you need to use different language when you respond to the letter from the rail company - accepting that it was a deliberate non-payment of the right fare, not a mistake. If you do get an "out of court settlement" (ie you pay them what they ask, as already explained, to make the case go away and avoid prosecution), then that doesn't mean you've been "fined" (which is something only the court can do if you plead guilty or are found guilty). If you avoid the case going to court then there's no legal fine, no criminal conviction or criminal record, and so on. An out of court settlment, avoiding formal legal consequences, is a private agreement between you and the train company - the court system is not involved at all; you stand a good chance of that outcome if you deal with their correspondence sensibly.

Thanks for this point, I will make sure to use better language for this, I completely understand my wrongdoings.

"This is the first time I've ever done something like this"

Clearly it isn't the first time. It's the first time you have been caught deliberately buying short fares. The railway takes a very dim view of such behaviour and has the teeth to make life very uncomfortable indeed, should it choose to do so.

I'm not saying this to rub your face into the ground, but you need to be honest with yourself (and the railway) from now on. You need to persuade them that you have learned your lesson, won't repeat your past behaviour and convince them an out of court settlement (which will cost you, but won't be a criminal conviction) is the best way of resolving your situation.

And, please remember the best outcome from your perspective is their decision, not yours. You are not in control of the process, but you can influence their thinking by being responsive, open and cooperative.

When I said first time, I meant this series of buying short fares is my first ever wrongdoing. I have no problem being completely honest, which I was with the inspector at the station, so hopefully that accounts for something when it comes to their decision after my response, which will be very cooperative.

“Mistake” has two definitions, one of which is “an act of judgment that is misguided or wrong”. So long as it is clear in any letter that it is that meaning being used (as is indeed clear in the OP’s first post) then I would not get too hung up on its use.

Thank you, I'm doing my best not to get hung up on every detail but it is all I can seem to think about.

Welcome to the forum!

Southeastern will write to you in the next few weeks asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. Normally they tend to offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with their onvestigation and who have not come to their attention before. We cannot guarantee this and they are within their right to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court should they decide to do so.

Also be aware that Southeastern will be able to research your online ticket purchasing history so if you have a history of purchasing short distance tickets then be aware that Southeastern might want to ask you about these cases as well.

When the letter arrives post a copy of it in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you. Do make sure you redact any personal details and case reference numbers before posting it.

Finally, just to be pedantic you don't want to pay a fine. A fine can only be imposed by a court as a punishment upon conviction. What you want to pay is an out of court settlement.

Thanks for the info, I'm hopeful that follow all these pieces of advice will get me the best chance of the out of court settlement. If they dont offer me that, would that then be the time to get a solicitor involved?

Could you give us some clue as to what the journey actually is and we can then work out the Single rate?

Im not sure if its best for me to give the exact station? But it is in zone 4.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for the info, I'm hopeful that follow all these pieces of advice will get me the best chance of the out of court settlement. If they dont offer me that, would that then be the time to get a solicitor involved?

Yes, personally I'd see what the response is and if they decide to prosecute then that's when I'd be looking to involve a solicitor.