Work on Okehampton Line: progress updates

[MarkyT]

Any kind of signalling that requires some remote equipment at Okehampton will need an appropriate communications link to Crediton for control and supervision. Traditional dedicated railway cable routes have long since disappeared along the route concerned and would be ruinously expensive to recreate today, but some new products can use other means, such as Park Signalling's Digital Block Controller (DiBloC). This is a modern recreation of the traditional key token system that can communicate securely over any IP based digital medium, potentially including public internet services and custom wireless links.

DiBloC

Park Signalling has developed a Digital Block Controller to allow a section of single line railway to be controlled without the need for end to end cabling or on-board equipment. The product shares many of the same operational and safety concepts with traditional electric key token machines...

www.park-signalling.co.uk

Watch the traincrew/signaller familiarisation video here

 

[Pinza-C55]

Any kind of signalling that requires some remote equipment at Okehampton will need an appropriate communications link to Crediton for control and supervision. Traditional dedicated railway cable routes have long since disappeared along the route concerned and would be ruinously expensive to recreate today, but some new products can use other means, such as Park Signalling's Digital Block Controller (DiBloC). This is a modern recreation of the traditional key token system that can communicate securely over any IP based digital medium, potentially including public internet services and custom wireless links.

DiBloC

Park Signalling has developed a Digital Block Controller to allow a section of single line railway to be controlled without the need for end to end cabling or on-board equipment. The product shares many of the same operational and safety concepts with traditional electric key token machines...

www.park-signalling.co.uk

Watch the traincrew/signaller familiarisation video here

I know, I was just replying to @30907 's post.

 

[21C101]

No no no! I don't think that would be very good operationally at all. If Exmouth Jn control is to migrate anywhere, it should be into Exeter PSB, to better manage traffic through the busy Exeter Central corridor.

Surely any recontrol would thereore be to Didcot Roc not Exeter PSB?

I suspect it would be done at the same time as recontrolling Exeter PSB.

A third through platform at Central "Gravesend" style or the luxury solution of reinstating the through roads with scissors to create four through platforms ought to be a consideration for any general resignalling given that in time Exeter to Cardiff trains will need to be extended there as and when the Taunton to Cardiffs extend to serve Cullompton and Wellington.

I suspect the problem at Feniton is that the signals protecting the crossing are not overlap clear of each other so a movement towards one locks out a movement towards the other. They are useful for trains in the same direction following each other, so an up local reversing east of Pinhoe could closely follow a Waterloo soon after that had departed Feniton, but I think the risk of failure during reversal on the single line makes this a highly undesirable routine move.

If a westbound train is indeed held at Honiton rather than Feniton, then agreed totally unacceptable as a routine move, although a useful get out of jail free manouvre for occasional use to add flexibilty.

The intermediate block at Feniton (and similar at Crewkerne) was put in to allow flighting when Padd services are diverted that way

 

[Townsend Hook]

Just been informed that one of Network Rail’s infrastructure monitoring trains will be making a visit to Okehampton in January on a track geometry recording run, as part of the commissioning work.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Surely any recontrol would thereore be to Didcot Roc not Exeter PSB?

I suspect it would be done at the same time as recontrolling Exeter PSB.

There are impracticalities about further major resignallings going into Didcot, the primary one being a lack of space for the multitude of control desks required for all the monitored crossings in the West Country. More likely is the creation of a new West Country ROC, or a move away from that policy for the West Country in general - more likely in my opinion now that regional devolution is the name of the game.

If a westbound train is indeed held at Honiton rather than Feniton, then agreed totally unacceptable as a routine move, although a useful get out of jail free manouvre for occasional use to add flexibilty.

The intermediate block at Feniton (and similar at Crewkerne) was put in to allow flighting when Padd services are diverted that way

To my understanding it is not permitted for a Westbound train to depart Honiton while a shunt takes place at Pinhoe, or vice versa. The intermediate block signals at Feniton have conflicting overlaps. There is of course no obstruction to a shunt taking place at Exmouth Junction however.

 

[MarkyT]

Surely any recontrol would thereore be to Didcot Roc not Exeter PSB? I suspect it would be done at the same time as recontrolling Exeter PSB.

There are impracticalities about further major resignallings going into Didcot, the primary one being a lack of space for the multitude of control desks required for all the monitored crossings in the West Country. More likely is the creation of a new West Country ROC, or a move away from that policy for the West Country in general - more likely in my opinion now that regional devolution is the name of the game.

What I meant was Exmouth Jn should be on the same workstation or panel desk as St Davids, wherever that is located. Placing a major control centre boundary right in the middle of a major rail complex is not good practice at all.
I suspect a west country 'ROC' may be the answer long term. Assuming the existing 1980s PSB building is still structurally sound, it could be a good candidate as it has masses of spare space in the equipment rooms below to allow a staged reconfiguration and conversion to workstations.

A third through platform at Central "Gravesend" style or the luxury solution of reinstating the through roads with scissors to create four through platforms ought to be a consideration for any general resignalling given that in time Exeter to Cardiff trains will need to be extended there as and when the Taunton to Cardiffs extend to serve Cullompton and Wellington.

I agree Exeter Central is an essential target destination to serve for all local-oriented services, although I'm not convinced any additional platforms at the station are justified. New and improved turnbacks to the east of the city are the answer IMHO, and that might include some improved facility for that on the Exmouth branch and a second platform at Cranbrook, initially configured as a terminal but becoming part of a dynamic passing loop for extending local services further east in the future.

If a westbound train is indeed held at Honiton rather than Feniton, then agreed totally unacceptable as a routine move, although a useful get out of jail free manouvre for occasional use to add flexibilty.
The intermediate block at Feniton (and similar at Crewkerne) was put in to allow flighting when Padd services are diverted that way

To my understanding it is not permitted for a Westbound train to depart Honiton while a shunt takes place at Pinhoe, or vice versa. The intermediate block signals at Feniton have conflicting overlaps. There is of course no obstruction to a shunt taking place at Exmouth Junction however.

I thought as much re. flighting. There were always signals at Feniton, locally operated by station staff I recall to protect the station crossing, but they were not also block signals before resignalling.

 

[Gloster]

I suspect a west country 'ROC' may be the answer long term. Assuming the existing 1980s PSB building is still structurally sound, it could be a good candidate as it has masses of spare space in the equipment rooms below to allow a staged reconfiguration and conversion to workstations.

There should - in my opinion - be one ROC for the west located at either Exeter, Newton Abbot or Plymouth. Ideally - to my mind - it should cover from either side of Bridgwater, around Somerton, and east of Axminster westwards; the last would keep all South Devon local services under one centre.

I thought as much re. flighting. There were always signals at Feniton, locally operated by station staff I recall to protect the station crossing, but they were not also block signals before resignalling.

If I understand the situation correctly, before the resignalling the signals at Feniton were just to protect the crossing: they had no function as far as the signalling was concerned. The block section was Pinhoe-Honiton (or Pinhoe-Chard Junction if Honiton was switched out, which I don’t think happened often) with no intermediate signals operated by the boxes. The staff at Feniton were effectively crossing-keepers, not signalman, although I think they had ticket duties.

 

[21C101]

If Didcot cannot accomodate Exeter and Plymouth PSBs and the other associated boxes, then controlling the lot from Basingstoke ROC might be an option?

Re Marky's comment, another alternative might be to redouble Polsloe to Topsham with a short intermediate block on the single line at Topsham allowing four an hour as far as Topsham rather than 2, with two turning back and two going on to Exmouth.

Ideally four an hour to Exmouth but that has always been a single track formation and it would be hard work (one reason the extension of line from Sidmouth Junct to Budleigh was built and carried all the "intercities" that once ran to Exmouth).

 

[MarkyT]

If I understand the situation correctly, before the resignalling the signals at Feniton were just to protect the crossing: they had no function as far as the signalling was concerned. The block section was Pinhoe-Honiton (or Pinhoe-Chard Junction if Honiton was switched out, which I don’t think happened often) with no intermediate signals operated by the boxes. The staff at Feniton were effectively crossing-keepers, not signalman, although I think they had ticket duties.

Correct. In late BR days I recall there was a little control panel on the platform and the booking clerk would shut up shop shortly before a train was due, operate the crossing and clear the signal for the appropriate direction. I expect the station staff became Railtrack then NR employees following privatisation, like a small number of other similar locations nationwide.

 

[Gloster]

Correct. In late BR days I recall there was a little control panel on the platform and the booking clerk would shut up shop shortly before a train was due, operate the crossing and clear the signal for the appropriate direction. I expect the station staff became Railtrack then NR employees following privatisation, like a small number of other similar locations nationwide.

I think it was the other way around as far as the staff were concerned. The station closed completely in March 1967, but crossing-keepers were retained to work the gates, based in the old Sidmouth Junction Crossing Ground Frame hut. The station reopened as Feniton in May 1971, and a few years later barriers were installed and the controls were placed into a new building. At some point the crossing-keepers also took over the ticketing and platform duties.

 

[MarkyT]

If Didcot cannot accomodate Exeter and Plymouth PSBs and the other associated boxes, then controlling the lot from Basingstoke ROC might be an option?

I don't think that's desirable at all, and would cut across the existing regional/route management boundaries clearly. While the concept of ROCS in terms of increasing the quantity of infrastructure and train movements supervised by each signaller is sound, once you get beyond a certain size that minimises relief requirements, there's little further benefit, and some additional risks, in further consolidation. In theory, all of UK COULD be managed from one huge centre similar in size (by route miles supervised) to some of the US supersized dispatch centres, but in terms of train movements and infrastructure complexity that would be enormous.

Re Marky's comment, another alternative might be to redouble Polsloe to Topsham with a short intermediate block on the single line at Topsham allowing four an hour as far as Topsham rather than 2, with two turning back and two going on to Exmouth.

Ideally four an hour to Exmouth but that has always been a single track formation and it would be hard work (one reason the extension of line from Sidmouth Junct to Budleigh was built and carried all the "intercities" that once ran to Exmouth).

Sending trains from a selection of longer-distance routes along a predominantly single-track branch all the way to Exmouth strikes me as very risky operationally. Some further doubling the branch between Polsloe Bridge and Digby and Sowton would be more practical lower risk option, with an extra turnback platform or siding somewhere (maybe Newcourt?). An extra station for the considerable employment opportunities around the Met Office HQ would be very useful.

I think it was the other way around as far as the staff were concerned. The station closed completely in March 1967, but crossing-keepers were retained to work the gates, based in the old Sidmouth Junction Crossing Ground Frame hut. The station reopened as Feniton in May 1971, and a few years later barriers were installed and the controls were placed into a new building. At some point the crossing-keepers also took over the ticketing and platform duties.

Oh I forgot that the station had closed originally, then reopened. My personal experience is from the early 80s as an S&T trainee briefly attached to the maintenance gang covering the line as far as the old regional boundary at Sherborne and based at Exeter Central. Maybe the reopened station didn't have ticket sales originally and that was reintroduced later, like Templecombe?

 

[DorkingMain]

How much servicing do the Waterloo’s get at Exeter? Is it just a quick walk through with removal of any obvious rubbish from tables, or do they replenish the water tanks, toilet roll holders, etc? Will this be done at Okehampton, or will there be lay-overs in one or both directions at Exeter for this?

Tanking of West of England services is done at Waterloo

 

[21C101]

(That was a good Chinese ), but yes I agree Gloster.

Plus the new park and ride is going to be built at Pinhoe. [a.k.a Met Office Parkway]

 

[Dave Beeching]

From the Dartmoor Rly website......​

​

Update 30/11/20​

Some recent developments at the railway:

Specialist engineers have been much in evidence, surveying the track alignment, drainage, and bridge structures, to identify the remedial work which is required to bring the railway up to scratch.

They get around the railway on a Quattro road rail vehicle. It has six road wheels with balloon tyres, and four rail wheels. A flat bed trailer is attached at one end, and a six seat trailer at the other. Unlike many of its Wickham ancestors, it doesn’t have any weather protection for the passengers. Those old gangers were wimps.

A representative of the Dartmoor National Park Authority has visited and is keen to improve the information display in the platform 2 carpark, and for the platform 3 booking office and/or shop to provide Moor visitors with travel advice for the Granite Way and north Moor.

With the assistance of the Devon and Cornwall Rail Partnership’s Richard Burningham, plans are being made for comprehensive new signage for the station and its environs, including appropriate replica heritage material for platform 2.

Officials have surveyed the station site’s accessibility for bus services, checking the layout and turning area.

It has emerged that the signal box is likely to be considered an integral part of the station estate, possibly creating further opportunities for
DRSA.

In order to keep costs down, this is the unit proposed for the service. Thick gloves, coat and a woolly hat are recommended..............

View attachment 86615

An excellent update, thanks.

It will be interesting to see the minimum journey time achievable between Okehampton & Exeter St Davids using class 158/159 units if the Coleford - Okehampton section is having long stretches renewed with CWR. Back in its through route days up until the late 1960s class 42 locomotives could manage Okehampton to St Davids in 27mins with load 10 non-stop, surely a 159 with one call at Crediton could at least equal this performance?

I get that continuous welded rail is better than the more traditional (old) methods of jointing, but was wondering what sort of difference would that have on line speeds and what sort of time saving it would give between Oke and Exeter...

 

[21C101]

An excellent update, thanks.

I get that continuous welded rail is better than the more traditional (old) methods of jointing, but was wondering what sort of difference would that have on line speeds and what sort of time saving it would give between Oke and Exeter...

Someonen reported further back that Warships did it non stop in 35 mins Oke to St Davids before the line shut south of Meldon in 1968 (probably the Plymouth to Brighton.

The line speed was then 85 and it was a fast straight stretch.

What it will be post fettling will be governed by things like depth of ballast, underbridge strength etc which if stone trains are planned will be to a high standard so perhaps 75 or even a bit higher.

Level and foot crossings are also a constraint but there are not too many of them

Meldon viaduct apart it was a very well engineered route, although mainly seen as a goods revenue earner after the Ribbentrop - Molotov pact between LSWR and GWR that saw LSWR pocket most of the North Devon revenue a GWR pocket most of the Plymouth revenue whichever way people travelled.

This led to the SR putting a permanent 40mph limit between Bridestowe and Devonport and just about everything from Plymouth except the Brighton service calling at virtually all stations between Plymouth and Exeter.

The Southern still had a revenue pot at Devonport a big rival town and county burough in its own right until forcibly merged with Plymouth just before WW1 in the teeth of fierce local opposition.

Alas Devonport centre was largely obliterated by the Luftwaffe and then incororated into the Naval base and walled off, the remainder ceasing to be much more than a high rise council estate built on the rubble.

As early as then 50's some WR freight went via Oke as avoiding the South Devon banks so able to haul more wagons.

At nine miles longer from Plym to Exeter it would not be quite as fast for a non stop intercity than via Newton Abbot even if restored to main rather than secondary status (if a Tsunami hit Dawlish they would have to bite the bullet and build a local diversion).

 

[Dave Beeching]

Someonen reported further back that Warships did it non stop in 35 mins Oke to St Davids before the line shut south of Meldon in 1968 (probably the Plymouth to Brighton.

The line speed was then 85 and it was a fast straight stretch.

What it will be post fettling will be governed by things like depth of ballast, underbridge strength etc which if stone trains are planned will be to a high standard so perhaps 75 or even a bit higher.

Level and foot crossings are also a constraint but there are not too many of them

Meldon viaduct apart it was a very well engineered route, although mainly seen as a goods revenue earner after the Ribbentrop - Molotov pact between LSWR and GWR that saw LSWR pocket most of the North Devon revenue a GWR pocket most of the Plymouth revenue whichever way people travelled.

This led to the SR putting a permanent 40mph limit between Bridestowe and Devonport and just about everything from Plymouth except the Brighton service calling at virtually all stations between Plymouth and Exeter.

The Southern still had a revenue pot at Devonport a big rival town and county burough in its own right until forcibly merged with Plymouth just before WW1 in the teeth of fierce local opposition.

Alas Devonport centre was largely obliterated by the Luftwaffe and then incororated into the Naval base and walled off, the remainder ceasing to be much more than a high rise council estate built on the rubble.

As early as then 50's some WR freight went via Oke as avoiding the South Devon banks so able to haul more wagons.

At nine miles longer from Plym to Exeter it would not be quite as fast for a non stop intercity than via Newton Abbot even if restored to main rather than secondary status (if a Tsunami hit Dawlish they would have to bite the bullet and build a local diversion).

Yeah, a Janner mate of mine is still bitter about the forced marriage!

Quite a comprehensive history, thanks

 

[21C101]

Yeah, a Janner mate of mine is still bitter about the forced marriage!

Quite a comprehensive history, thanks

I suspect it is similar resentments on the other side of the "forced marriage" fence that seem to generate tutting in certain quarters at the thought of trains from Waterloo going to Okehampton and near apoplexy from said quarters at the thought of Meldon to Bere Alston being reopened and said Waterloo trains running to Plymouth.

 

[pompeyfan]

I suspect it is similar resentments on the other side of the "forced marriage" fence that seem to generate tutting in certain quarters at the thought of trains from Waterloo going to Okehampton and near apoplexy from said quarters at the thought of Meldon to Bere Alston being reopened and said Waterloo trains running to Plymouth.

I'm sure your comment was made in a “if the boot fits” type comment but I will nibble...

I’m all for Okehampton being re-added to national rail, as well as Bere Alston - Tavistock - Oke.

If the mule line was double track throughout or had a lot more resilience then by all means run the trains through to Oke, but it doesn’t, so disruption at Okehampton could end up causing a tin down as far as Portsmouth Harbour/Brighton for example because half the route has been singled.

 

[MarkRedon]

It would be good to have the choice of such a lack of resilience. Today, we have Dawlish only. Reopening even as far as Okehampton is a very positive development. In fact, s'wonderful.

 

[Trainbuff]

Someonen reported further back that Warships did it non stop in 35 mins Oke to St Davids before the line shut south of Meldon in 1968 (probably the Plymouth to Brighton.

The line speed was then 85 and it was a fast straight stretch.

What it will be post fettling will be governed by things like depth of ballast, underbridge strength etc which if stone trains are planned will be to a high standard so perhaps 75 or even a bit higher.

Level and foot crossings are also a constraint but there are not too many of them

Meldon viaduct apart it was a very well engineered route, although mainly seen as a goods revenue earner after the Ribbentrop - Molotov pact between LSWR and GWR that saw LSWR pocket most of the North Devon revenue a GWR pocket most of the Plymouth revenue whichever way people travelled.

This led to the SR putting a permanent 40mph limit between Bridestowe and Devonport and just about everything from Plymouth except the Brighton service calling at virtually all stations between Plymouth and Exeter.

The Southern still had a revenue pot at Devonport a big rival town and county burough in its own right until forcibly merged with Plymouth just before WW1 in the teeth of fierce local opposition.

Alas Devonport centre was largely obliterated by the Luftwaffe and then incororated into the Naval base and walled off, the remainder ceasing to be much more than a high rise council estate built on the rubble.

As early as then 50's some WR freight went via Oke as avoiding the South Devon banks so able to haul more wagons.

At nine miles longer from Plym to Exeter it would not be quite as fast for a non stop intercity than via Newton Abbot even if restored to main rather than secondary status (if a Tsunami hit Dawlish they would have to bite the bullet and build a local diversion).

Just a quick point, it is not 9 miles longer at all. Its half of that but with potentially higher ruling speeds. Network Rail 'West of Exeter' study compared times on current route non stop between Exeter and Plymouth as 49 minutes for a Voyager and Northern route was 53 minutes.

Fastest theoretical portion of the whole 'Northern Route' is the part between Sampford Courtenay and Exeter, with speed checks at Coleford, Crediton and Cowley Bridge at the least.

It is unlikely, in my opinion, that speed will be increased due to additional maintenance. I reckon line speed will remain 55mph overall but there may be speed checks on some of the foot or road crossings

 

[21C101]

Just a quick point, it is not 9 miles longer at all. Its half of that but with potentially higher ruling speeds. Network Rail 'West of Exeter' study compared times on current route non stop between Exeter and Plymouth as 49 minutes for a Voyager and Northern route was 53 minutes.

Fastest theoretical portion of the whole 'Northern Route' is the part between Sampford Courtenay and Exeter, with speed checks at Coleford, Crediton and Cowley Bridge at the least.

It is unlikely, in my opinion, that speed will be increased due to additional maintenance. I reckon line speed will remain 55mph overall but there may be speed checks on some of the foot or road crossings

Nine miles longer referred to Exeter Central to Plymouth Friary. Agreed about 4 or 5 from St Davids to North Road.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Peninsula Transport

Okehampton: the Dartmoor Line - the line is now moving back in @networkrail ownership and looking to introduce passenger and freight services as soon as possible. #rail #okehampton

Bingo!

 

[21C101]

Peninsula Transport



Bingo!

"And Freight" is what I suspect is making this possible.

Anyone got hold of the special "Okehampton Reopening" edition of The Moorlander that came out yesterday?

I see the managing director of SWR who presented a slide fairly recently to the All Party Parliamentary Group on South Western Railway to the effect that the Okehampton to Exeter should be operated jointly by SWR and GWR has now left the post.

On account of him being appointed MD of...er...GWR

Source, All Party Parliamentary Group on South Western Railway.

Twitter

 

[MarkyT]

I see the managing director of SWR who presented a slide fairly recently to the All Party Parliamentary Group on South Western Railway to the effect that the Okehampton to Exeter should be operated jointly by SWR and GWR has now left the post.

On account of him being appointed MD of...er...GWR

Both First Group companies, of course, albeit SWR in consortium with minority partner MTR Corporation.

 

[Bald Rick]

"And Freight" is what I suspect is making this possible.

Anyone got hold of the special "Okehampton Reopening" edition of The Moorlander that came out yesterday?

I see the managing director of SWR who presented a slide fairly recently to the All Party Parliamentary Group on South Western Railway to the effect that the Okehampton to Exeter should be operated jointly by SWR and GWR has now left the post.

On account of him being appointed MD of...er...GWR

Source, All Party Parliamentary Group on South Western Railway.

Twitter

Mark was only at SWR temporarily. He is just going back to his actual job.

 

[northernbelle]

"And Freight" is what I suspect is making this possible.

Anyone got hold of the special "Okehampton Reopening" edition of The Moorlander that came out yesterday?

I see the managing director of SWR who presented a slide fairly recently to the All Party Parliamentary Group on South Western Railway to the effect that the Okehampton to Exeter should be operated jointly by SWR and GWR has now left the post.

On account of him being appointed MD of...er...GWR

Source, All Party Parliamentary Group on South Western Railway.

Twitter

Mark was only ever on secondment from GWR to SWR as Interim MD, with a return to his normal role as GWR MD always the plan.

 

[swt_passenger]

I see the managing director of SWR who presented a slide fairly recently to the All Party Parliamentary Group on South Western Railway to the effect that the Okehampton to Exeter should be operated jointly by SWR and GWR has now left the post.

On account of him being appointed MD of...er...GWR

Source, All Party Parliamentary Group on South Western Railway.

It was always a temporary transfer from GWR and he was expected to return. Hence him being described as interim. I doubt it would have any relevance to the current subject.

 

[21C101]

Peninsula Transport



Bingo!

If Network Rail are taking the line over and using it for both passengers and freight, then it looks like the Dartmoor Railway preservationists might be looking for a new home.....

......unless NR take a flexible attitude to standards compliance and a reasonable attitude to track access charges to allow Meldon to Okehampton (down platform) shuttles to continue.

It was always a temporary transfer from GWR and he was expected to return. Hence him being described as interim. I doubt it would have any relevance to the current subject.

Given that he was the one promoting extension of Waterloo trains to Okehampton as a joint operation with GWR, it's hardly going to put the kybosh on the idea.

 

[Class 170101]

If Network Rail are taking the line over and using it for both passengers and freight, then it looks like the Dartmoor Railway preservationists might be looking for a new home.....

......unless NR take a flexible attitude to standards compliance and a reasonable attitude to track access charges to allow Meldon to Okehampton (down platform) shuttles to continue.


Given that he was the one promoting extension of Waterloo trains to Okehampton as a joint operation with GWR, it's hardly going to put the kybosh on the idea.

Based on the slide this may also see the Waterloo to Bristol and proposed Swindon to Southampton services being GWR operated beyond either Salisbury or Westbury.

I don't think the joint services idea will matter who the MD is at any given time, it will be what the DfT (and the Treasury) wants only.

 

[yorksrob]

Quicker journey for me to drive to Taunton ( or Exeter! ) & get on GW, but I'll take the comfort of the WoE service any day. I know for sure I'm not alone in actuvely choosing the slower route even from Exeter.

Exeter & Okehampton ( or even my part of east Devon ) are rather different catchment areas though.

I'm the same when going that way. Love the route, the ability to choose ones own seat and the comfy 159's.

All in all, sounds like very encouraging progress on this project.