Preserved EMUs and alternative power.

[zwk500]

Might I suggest they could install a non-connected "dead" length of 3rd rail for visual purposes while using the batteries for power?

That would seem to me to be a good compromise - as well as being a lot cheaper to do.

This has been considered by the Bluebell railway at Horsted Keynes, yes. They've installed some vintage 3rd rail warning signs on the box (not sure if they're still there) and were keen to put some dummy third rail so there's something to be warned of! I would guess (I have no insider knowledge of the BRPS) that it's just a matter of priorities. They may need to drill additional holes in the sleepers or change them completely to mount the 'pots' on, and get hold of some pots and visually similar rail from somewhere. All of that takes time and energy that right now is needed to ensure the commercial recovery of the railway.

https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pti/hkwork.html has pictures which show the sign in place, although none very clearly. It's an excellent archive of the Signalling work they've done there.

Edited to remove reference to Ardingly Extension, got confused about which thread this was!

 

[paul1609]

Specifically for the Bluebell Ardingly branch, 3rd rail has no chance. They have a 4VEP in storage, which could feasibly be fitted with batteries, if a charging solution can be found (it'd spend the majority of it's time off the juice rail). Alternatively a Push/pull fitted Class 73 would appear to be a perfectly suitable 'Southern' and 'heritage' option. The small diesel power would not be a problem from 4 Cars at low speed, and there are locos available.

An overhead conductor is more unlikely than 3rd rail, due to the need to extensively modify the units to fit the collector arm. Even if it's structurally possible, its almost certainly financially not.

At the Kent & East Sussex we have a mainline 73 visit with the classic 600hp engine fitted it wasnt able to climb Tenterden bank with 5 mk1 coaches without the engine overheating, it could manage 4 but it wasnt very sprightly performance. They dont offer any train heat except the 73/0s which can pre heat eth when not under power.

 

[Ken H]

The trolleybus preservationists power their vehicles with a genset on a trailer, and connect the output from the genset to the trolleybus. There must be some sort of rectifier on the trailer as trolleybuses are DC. I dont suppose a set of batteries on the trailer would be a problem
Dont Southern EMU's have 'receptacle boxes' where power can be supplied to them from cables hanging from the roof in a depot.? So thats a way into the vehicle electrics, maybe?
Just an idea.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Dont Southern EMU's have 'receptacle boxes' where power can be supplied to them from cables hanging from the roof in a depot.? So thats a way into the vehicle electrics, maybe?
Just an idea.

I’ve seen that on Underground units but I don’t know enough about EMUs to answer.

 

[AM9]

Dont Southern EMU's have 'receptacle boxes' where power can be supplied to them from cables hanging from the roof in a depot.? So thats a way into the vehicle electrics, maybe?
Just an idea.

Surely those are emergency and hotel supply connections, not full traction current connections. Why would full traction current be required within a depot other than on reception roads?

 

[Ken H]

Surely those are emergency and hotel supply connections, not full traction current connections. Why would full traction current be required within a depot other than on reception roads?

to move the units into pitted roads where there would be no 3rd rail. Started a thread on this in the traction and rolling stock section.

 

[WAO]

The cable jumpers on the BR (SR) EMU ends are for the 27 way control system. Early units had an extra jumper called the "Power Train Line" that could convey traction current - omitted later. The control system was very flexible and allowed some very strange consists to be formed - essentially everything (of BR EPB design) coupled and worked with everything else.

Happy days!

WAO

 

[Ashley Hill]

to move the units into pitted roads where there would be no 3rd rail. Started a thread on this in the traction and rolling stock section.

So if a 750v supply from say a generator was plugged into a receptacle box could it power the unit on a short branch line.

 

[AM9]

Well I was hoping to discuss alternative ways to power an EMU,batteries,gen set etc but never mind.

Powering a heritage EMU to run on it's own motors instead of being towed by a diesel is a reasonable thing to do if a bit niche for the general public seing the line as a leisure event. Powering from diesel engined genset would not really add to it's being an EMU as most of the noise wouild come from the prime source, i.e. the diesel engine. However if the preserved train was a bimode, (dare I say a class 769), it would be reasonable because under load, the DC motors can be heard above the diesel gensets!
In prectice, I imagine that some sort of battery trailer, or even batteries mounted under the floors of an EMU would suffice for typical day's shuffling backwards and forwards along a preserved line at speeds up to 25mph then recharged overnight from a shore supply. It would be a bit expensive at the moment (although a lot cheaper than firing up a steam loco), but in a few years, ex-road vehicle traction batteries would probably be cheap enough to drive the train. A typical 40kWh battery would be enough per 150-250kW motor, and fitting four of those under the floors of a 4-car EMU (or two under a 2-car) would be quite simple. For the speeds involved, a slightly depleted 400V battery would probably manage the job.

 

[D365]

So if a 750v supply from say a generator was plugged into a receptacle box could it power the unit on a short branch line.

With a long enough (but not too long) cable!

 

[Nym]

Traction power over a jumper is just... yeah. no.

Only LUL and SR stock does this with any form of reasonableness, and by the time you have a powerful enough generator, you have a locomotive anyway.

 

[D365]

Traction power over a jumper is just... yeah. no.

I didn’t think that Ashley was serious!

 

[AM9]

I didn’t think that Ashley was serious!

It's difficult to tell as it seems that posters haven't used the normal forum etiquette indication that they are treating the subject as not very serious.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I didn’t think that Ashley was serious!

Post #15 refers to moving a Hatton colliery loco via a wagonload of batteries. One had to jumper the power across somehow.

 

[D365]

Post #15 refers to moving a Hatton colliery loco via a wagonload of batteries. One had to jumper the power across somehow.

Ah - I had thought there was a static supply involved somewhere…