Preston to London Routeing Query

[WestCoastTravel]

Hi there,

Firstly if this has been asked before then I must profusely apologise for bringing it up again, but I was wondering if anybody on the forum would be able to clarify that the following routes are valid for this ticket (using the updated routeing guide). Ticket in question is a Preston - London Terminals Off peak Return (SVR) with a 2V restriction.

Preston (Lancs) - London Terminals

To London Euston

Preston - Crewe - Nuneaton - Milton Keynes - London Euston
Preston - Crewe - Birmingham New Street - Rugby - London Euston

To London Paddington

Preston - Crewe - Birmingham New Street - Reading - London Paddington
Preston - Crewe - Shrewsbury - Newport - Bristol - Swindon - Reading - London Paddington (and variants)

To London Waterloo

Preston - Crewe - Shrewsbury - Newport - Bristol - Salisbury - Brockenhurst - Southampton - Basingstoke - Waterloo (and variants)
Preston - Crewe - Birmingham New Street - Reading - Waterloo

To London Kings Cross

Preston - Leeds - Doncaster - Peterborough - Kings Cross
Preston - Manchester - Sheffield - Doncaster - Peterborough - Kings Cross
Preston - Manchester - Sheffield - Retford - Peterborough - Kings Cross
Preston - Crewe - Birmingham New street - Nuneaton - Peterborough - Kings Cross

To london St Pancras International

Preston - Manchester - Sheffield - Derby - Leicester - London St Pancras
Preston - Crewe - Derby - Leicester - London St Pancras

To London Marylebone

preston - Crewe - Birmingham New Street - Moor Street - Banbury - High Wycombe - London Marylebone (and variants like going striaght from New Street to Banbury)
Preston - Crewe - Shrewsbury - Tame Bridge Parkway - Banbury - High Wycombe - London Marylebone (using WSR service)

That's about all the routes which I think are valid. Does anybody know whether this ticket is valid into either London Liverpool Street, Fenchurch Street, London Bridge or London Victoria?

In addition I was using this website to query the route:

http://www.davros.org/rail/routeing-guide.html

It came up with a journey of 657 miles one way does anybody know where this route takes you!!!

I understand this is a log read so thanks for taking the time.

Many thanks

WestCoastTravel

 

[dan_atki]

Valid routes according to the ATOC routeing guide are below (please use CORE with caution - the data on it is now out of date).

Before consulting the NRG, the ticket is valid on any direct service to a London Terminal regardless of the routeing of the service. Restriction codes on tickets relate to times of travelling rather than routes.

BD+MW+WX gives:

Preston - Wigan - Warrington - Crewe - Shrewsbury - Hereford - Newport - Bristol - Bath/Westbury/Swindon - Reading - Basingstoke/Farnborough/Staines (- Brentford/Richmond if via Staines) - Clapham Junction - London Victoria/London Waterloo.

NOTE: Officially, by the NRG, travelling on this route via Earlestown and/or Runcorn is not allowed. (Although I suspect with the number of valid routes via these two stations, you'd encounter no problems).

or

Preston - Wigan - Warrington - Crewe - Shrewsbury - Hereford - Newport - Bristol - Bath/Westbury - Salisbury - Southampton/Eastleigh/Basingstoke* - Clapham Junction - London Victoria/London Waterloo.

* Travelling Salisbury - Southampton will also mean travel via Eastleigh and Basingstoke, and travelling Salisbury - Eastleigh will also mean travel via Basingstoke.

NOTE: Officially, by the NRG, travelling on this route via Earlestown and/or Runcorn is not allowed. (Although I suspect with the number of valid routes via these two stations, you'd encounter no problems).

or

Preston - Wigan (- Earlestown) - Warrington (- Runcorn) - Crewe ((- Wilmslow) - Manchester NOT via Stockport - Stockport - Stoke-on-Trent - Stafford) - Wolverhampton/Walsall (- Wolverhampton) - Birmingham - Solihull/Coventry - Oxford - Reading - Basingstoke/Farnborough/Staines (- Brentford/Richmond if via Staines) - Clapham Junction - London Victoria/London Waterloo.

BS+GC gives:

Preston - Wigan (- Earlestown) - Warrington - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton/Walsall (- Wolverhampton) - Birmingham - Solihull/Coventry - West Ruislip (- Greenford) - London Paddington/London Marylebone if NOT via Greenford.

There are many alternative routes given Preston - Birmingham on map BS:
Preston - Bolton - Manchester - Stockport - Stoke-on-Trent - Rugeley - Walsall (- Wolverhampton) - Birmingham

Lines between these two core routes allow you to zigzag between them:
Bolton - Wigan (then onward via (Earlestown and) Warrington), Manchester/Stockport to Wilmslow to Crewe (then onward via Stoke-on-Trent and/or Stafford),
Stoke-on-Trent to Crewe/Stafford (then onward to Rugeley, Wolverhampton, or Walsall (including Wolverhampton via Walsall).

CS gives:
As above to Birmingham (similar to BS but via Earlestown is shown as NOT valid, although again I'd suspect going this way wouldn't cause a problem), then either:

- Banbury - Reading - London Paddington

or

- Banbury - West Ruislip - London Marylebone

LM gives:
Same routes to Stafford as on BS then either:

- Rugeley - Lichfield - Tamworth - Nuneaton - Rugby (- Northampton) - Bletchley - London Euston

or

- Wolverhampton/Walsall (- Wolverhampton) - Birmingham - Nuneaton/Coventry (- Nuneaton) - Rugby (- Northampton) - Bletchley - London Euston

CS+LM gives no new route than what was not already on the maps individually.

MM+PS gives:

Preston - Bolton - Manchester - Guide Bridge/Hazel Grove* - Chinley - Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby/Nottingham (- Derby) - Loughborough (- Melton Mowbray) - Leicester - Bedford - London St Pancras.

* You can also exploit your ticket a bit between Manchester and Hazel Grove here:
Manchester - Wilmslow (but NOT via Stockport) - Crewe - Chester - Stockport - Hazel Grove.

LM+PS+MM gives many alternative ways to get to Manchester/Stockport to follow routes above:

Preston - Wigan - Bolton - Manchester

Preston - Wigan (- Earlestown) - Warrington - Manchester

Preston - Wigan (- Earlestown) - Warrington - Crewe - Wilmslow - Manchester/Stockport (- Manchester)

Preston - Wigan (- Earlestown) - Warrington - Crewe (- Stafford (- Rugeley)) - Stoke-on-Trent - Stockport (- Manchester)

Preston - Wigan (- Earlestown) - Warrington - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton/Walsall (- Wolverhampton) - Birmingham (- Coventry (- Rugby)) - Nuneaton - Tamworth - Lichfield - Rugeley - Stoke-on-Trent NOT via Stafford - Stockport (- Manchester)

These are all of the routes I can make out as some of the maps allow you to go out of your way quite a bit (e.g. Preston - Birmingham - Rugby - Manchester - Sheffield - London!). Please be careful if using one of the longer routes that you do not double-back (pass through the same station more than once) - I have tried to list above where this could occur by saying 'NOT via' but service patterns may also rule out some of the routes.

Also, if planning to use the longer routes, I'd advise printing out the relevant parts of the Routeing Guide in case you are questioned about validity .

Now, comparing these routes to the ones you have listed:

- Both the Euston ones are fine.
- Going into Paddington via Reading wasn't shown at all on the maps (whilst it officially isn't allowed I suspect you will have no problems going from Reading to Paddington).
- Waterloo next, first route is fine, second is too if you cut out Brockenhurst (due to the double-backing).
- From the NRG, there are NO valid routes into King's Cross.
- Both routes you have given to St Pancras are fine, provided that the second goes Crewe to Stockport and/or Manchester to Sheffield to Derby.
- For Marylebone, the first route is fine but whilst Shrewsbury to Banbury shows on BD+MW, the rest of the route into Marylebone doesn't show on MW or WX, so is not valid (I'd suspect though if you was to join a service at Shrewsbury and ask the train manager before boarding if they'll accept your ticket then they probably would - although, as it's not strictly valid they are in the right if they say no (as in any of the 'it's not valid but I suspect you won't have a problem' cases in this post).
- Victoria is also valid if changing at Clapham Junction off of South West Trains services going into Waterloo.
- No other London Terminal is shown as valid by the NRG.

Sorry for the book of a post but I hope this helps you .

 

[yorkie]

Gretna/Carlisle etc to London is valid into King's Cross, as the shortest route is always valid. The shortest route is via the S&C. Gretna Off Peak is 8A so valid on any train into/out of King's Cross!

 

[WestCoastTravel]

Many thanks for the replies much apprecieated.

The "book of a post" was rather useful actually and thankyou very much for taking the time to compile it. I'm still learning how to use the routeing guide and will get to the bottom of it one of these days, but in the meantime I'm still prone to asking questions.

In summary then the ticket is only valid into the following london terminals via the routes listed in the posts:

• London Euston
• London Paddington
• London Waterloo
• London Victoria
• London Marylebone
• London St Pancras

I note in the post that travel between reading and paddington may not be valid, but the barriers at Paddington, don't seem to have a probelm with it, so I guess its OK.

The next time I travel to London Victoria I'll have to try the route via Newport, Bristol and Southampton and see how many times I get questionned!! hock: I'll remember to take a copy of the national routeing guide maps may come in handy!

Just before I go I notice that a Preston - Southampton Off Peak return (not london) is some £20 more than this ticket at £89.70. Would it then be possible to go to Southampton but using the london ticket - could save quite a bit of money. Just a thought. Also notice that the off peak ticket via london to same destination is cheaper - fares simplication eh...:roll:

Many Thanks,

WestCoastTravel.

 

[dan_atki]

No problem at all - it cured a boring Wednesday afternoon! Trying to phrase it so it included everything was the bigger problem.

I suspect that the barriers at Paddington don't have a problem because there is a valid route into Paddington anyway or the fact London Terminals tickets work barriers at all London Terminals stations.

I suspect that break of journey at Southampton would be allowed (BoJ is also now determined by restriction code as well as ticket type) but cannot give you a concrete answer here I'm afraid, although someone who has access to the restrictions list will be able to help.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Actually looking back through - I made a mistake in my summary at the end Reading to London Paddington is shown as valid on map CS - sorry for any confusion that caused.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Rather long winded, but Preston to London SVR is actually validity code 2C, the bits you need to know are below (2C edited to exclude other routes for clarity)

To or via / Outward Journey(arrival) / Return Journey(departure)

London Euston / At or after 1059 / Between 0915 & 1514 (inc.) and at or after 1812

London Marylebone / At or after 1100 / Between 0915 & 1559 (inc.) and at or after 1801

London Paddington / At or after 1039 / Between 0903 & 1647 (inc.) and at or after 1831

London St Pancras International / At or after 1019 / Between 0901 & 1629 (inc.) and at or after 1901

London Waterloo / At or after 1050 / Between 0925 & 1630 (inc.) and at or after 1822

Kensington Olympia / At or after 1100 / Between 0915 & 1514 (inc.) and at or after 1812

Bedford / At or after 1021 / Between 0950 & 1615 (inc.) and at or after 2000

Luton / At or after 1036 / Between 0948 & 1618 (inc.) and at or after 1950

Luton Airport Parkway / At or after 1051 / Between 0925 & 1605 (inc.) and at or after 1927

Milton Keynes Central / At or after 1025 / Between 0946 & 1546 (inc.) and at or after 1906

Reading / At or after 1008 / Between 0930 & 1712 (inc.) and at or after 1900

Watford Junction / At or after 1046 / Between 0931 & 1529 (inc.) and at or after 1831

Stations between Watford Junction and Milton Keynes / At or after 1046 / Between 0946 & 1546 at or after 1906

Also valid from Preston, Crewe or Rugby on the 1808 London Euston to Glasgow Central

· Note that on the Friday before Bank Holidays afternoon restrictions will NOT apply to Off-Peak tickets for travel from/via/to Euston, Watford Junction and Milton Keynes Central. Normal morning peak restrictions will apply.

· Note that for Christmas and New Year, restrictions will NOT apply for travel on Virgin Trains between the 24th December to 2nd January inclusive.

 

[WestCoastTravel]

Thanks for the additional clarification on routes and restrictions.

I think I might take this post with me in addition to the maps, just in case I need some additional firepower..... hock:

Many thanks,

WestCoastTravel

 

[Ascot]

Gretna/Carlisle etc to London is valid into King's Cross, as the shortest route is always valid. The shortest route is via the S&C. Gretna Off Peak is 8A so valid on any train into/out of King's Cross!

Interesting, so if i wanted to go to Carlisle (or even Glasgow with a local cheap day) on the Peak services from Glasgow i'd get a ticket to Gretna instead (to mods can you start a Gretna/Scotland ticket thread)