Previous Fares without Railcard

[KirkstallOne]

I think it is rather naïve to think that because prosecution isn't mentioned it might be off the table. The threat of prosecution is TPE's leverage over you and what will be used to seek a settlement.

TOCs in general are not normally shy about blaring Fraud Act and 1 year prison sentences under RoRA front and centre in these sort of communications but I fully concede we do not have examples of how this is going to go and appreciate the input, I may be way out on a limb compared to the consensus opinion here.

OP I would probably just make them a good faith offer to settle if you can afford to offer them something (tot up all the discounts you saved would be a reasonable starting point I think). Make sure any comms is marked ‘without prejudice’. I don’t think your letter is moving things on much as what would an ideal response look like from your perspective? We know what they think - you didn’t have a railcard for one journey and we have evidence of that, we think this is the case for all these others. We also know they want more personal info so they can review even more journeys.

For some context what we see much more commonly is there is a single instance where the prosecution is straightforward. That is then used as leverage for the suspected journeys. i.e. we are going to prosecute you for X unless you pay us for X, Y and Z. Transpennine have dropped the ball somewhat as they could have pulled this data in March, cancelled your Penalty Fare within the time period allowed and done exactly that.

 

[enyoueffsea]

I suspect the TOC will just reply and push back for you to evidence you did not use these tickets.

The bar for a civil success is much lower for the TOC than a criminal one. Whether they progress this or not is questionable, but it’s definitely an option.

If you did use these tickets and therefore have absolutely no evidence you didn’t, your current reply will do nothing other than waste both of your time.

 

[M19363]

TOCs in general are not normally shy about blaring Fraud Act and 1 year prison sentences under RoRA front and centre in these sort of communications but I fully concede we do not have examples of how this is going to go and appreciate the input, I may be way out on a limb compared to the consensus opinion here.

OP I would probably just make them a good faith offer to settle if you can afford to offer them something (tot up all the discounts you saved would be a reasonable starting point I think). Make sure any comms is marked ‘without prejudice’. I don’t think your letter is moving things on much as what would an ideal response look like from your perspective? We know what they think - you didn’t have a railcard for one journey and we have evidence of that, we think this is the case for all these others. We also know they want more personal info so they can review even more journeys.

For some context what we see much more commonly is there is a single instance where the prosecution is straightforward. That is then used as leverage for the suspected journeys. i.e. we are going to prosecute you for X unless you pay us for X, Y and Z. Transpennine have dropped the ball somewhat as they could have pulled this data in March, cancelled your Penalty Fare within the time period allowed and done exactly that.

Understood, thanks for the advice. How does this sound:

WITHOUT PREJUDICE
Dear Sir/Madam,

I fully acknowledge the seriousness of the incident on 4th March and understand the importance of holding a valid ticket for travel. I have since purchased a valid railcard and am committed to ensuring that this does not happen again.

In an effort to resolve this matter constructively and fairly, I would like to make a good faith settlement offer. Based on the journeys listed and the typical railcard discount of 33%, I am prepared to offer a payment of £*** to reflect the potential underpayment. I hope this offer will be acceptable and allow us to bring the matter to a close without the need for further action.

Please let me know if this proposal is acceptable, or if further discussion is required. I appreciate your time and consideration.

Yours faithfully,

 

[father_jack]

I think you need to add another "*" to your £*** to get near where you need to be to get them to haggle.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I'd say "I am offering" rather than "I am prepared to offer" - it sounds more proactive, a bit less confrontational, and at the end of the day what you are "prepared" to offer makes no difference to the train company

 

[AlterEgo]

Understood, thanks for the advice. How does this sound:

How have you calculated the three figure sum? If you've made a calculation rather than picking the figure out of thin air, tell them what it represents, and provide a break down.

 

[KirkstallOne]

I'd say "I am offering" rather than "I am prepared to offer" - it sounds more proactive, a bit less confrontational, and at the end of the day what you are "prepared" to offer makes no difference to the train company

Agree, or I can offer.

How have you calculated the three figure sum? If you've made a calculation rather than picking the figure out of thin air, tell them what it represents, and provide a break down.

I presume that is the ‘journey’s listed and typical railcard discount of 33%’ bit although some recognition of the railway’s costs would probably go down well.

I think it’s a decent response though. You could add literally a couple of words just to reflect the fact money is tight for you.

 

[M19363]

Agree, or I can offer.


I presume that is the ‘journey’s listed and typical railcard discount of 33%’ bit although some recognition of the railway’s costs would probably go down well.

I think it’s a decent response though. You could add literally a couple of words just to reflect the fact money is tight for you.

Thank you for your feedback. It's really appreciated.
Please find my revised response:

WITHOUT PREJUDICE
Dear Sir/Madam,

I fully acknowledge the seriousness of the incident on 4th March and understand the importance of holding a valid ticket for travel. I have since purchased a valid railcard and am committed to ensuring that this does not happen again.

I have reviewed the journeys listed and calculated the total cost of fares using the Anytime Day Single rate via brfares.com, which provides publicly accessible national fare data. Based on this, the full value of the journeys without a railcard would be approximately £XXXX, meaning the typical railcard discount would equate to £XXX.

While I do not have the means to pay this in full, I would like to offer a payment of £XXX as a gesture of goodwill and to reflect the estimated difference in fare had a valid railcard been held.

I want to be completely honest that I’m currently struggling financially and this offer is made with some difficulty. However, I hope you will consider it as a reasonable and proportionate way to resolve the matter without the need for further action.

Thank you for your time and consideration. I remain open to discussing any points further.

Yours faithfully,

 

[SuspectUsual]

I wouldn't say "as a gesture of goodwill", and if you're confident in your maths I'd change "to reflect the estimated" to "what I believe to be the"

 

[AlterEgo]

You were fare evading for some time; paying only the difference in fares - that is, the very minimum you could offer - isn't a gesture of goodwill. Just remove that and you're good to go.

 

[M19363]

Appreciate the feedback guys. I have updated to the following:

While I do not have the means to pay this in full, I would like to offer a payment of £XXX which I believe to be the difference in fare had a valid railcard been held.

 

[Hadders]

How can you offer to pay something you don't have the means to pay? You probably want to remove that bit because if your offer is accepted then you will have to find the money.

 

[M19363]

How can you offer to pay something you don't have the means to pay? You probably want to remove that bit because if your offer is accepted then you will have to find the money.

I don't have the means to pay in full. Hence the 33% offer.

 

[Hadders]

I don't have the means to pay in full. Hence the 33% offer.

Ok, I see what you're saying now.

 

[M19363]

No worries, thanks for the feedback. Do you think it's worth providing a fare breakdown for each journey in table form?