Private owner wagon registration numbers

[Phil Scott]

Hello

Not sure if this is the correct place for this question or not. Mods please move this thread if it is in the wrong place.

I was wondering what some of the prefixes on 1960 era private owner registration wagons meant.

For example BR(M) presumably stood for British Rail (Midland region), BR(W) stood for British Rail (Western region) and BR(Sc) stood for British Rail (Scottish region).

What did the following stands for?

• BR(B)
• BR(D)

I haven't come across either BR(E) or BR(S) for registration number prefixes - did these exist?

Thanks

 

[Wyrleybart]

I am not sure your examples are actually relevant to be honest because BR would not have been private owned vehicles. There were a number of BRxx type prefixes like BRT which prefixed a lot of tank wagons, ALG being another for Algeco. STS was I think for Storage Transport and Systems. SUKO was carried by loads of Shell BP tanks.

 

[eastwestdivide]

The OP isn’t referring to the owner prefixes to the numbers used on TOPS. These “BR(x)” plates were earlier, when fleets had their own number systems but also carried a plate with a BR registration number (and earlier still, numbers from the pre nationalisation railway companies)
I don’t know what all the letters in brackets meant unfortunately.
The star shaped plate on this page from an auction site is an example:

Wagon Plates Qty 6 Comprising: LNER Registration - Wagonplates

Wagon plates qty 6 comprising: LNER Registration 1927 complete with lugs; BR(E) 1950 Star plate No 2250A; Hurst Nelson D plate B426818 1958;...

www.gwra.co.uk

Also a small mention of the registration scheme via the RCH (Railway Clearing House), with a photo (bottom of page, left) at:

RCH - The Railway Clearing House

History and function of the Railway Clearing House

igg.org.uk

(edited for more info and clarity)

 

[Gloster]

Right back to the pre-grouping era all private-owner wagons running on the main network had to be registered; this was in addition to any number the owner might allocate to it and was on a plate fixed to the solebar. The registration was carried out by the railway company to which the wagon’s owner’s sidings were connected. Most wagons were taken over by the government at the beginning of World War II and never returned, but some special types, including all tanks, remained as private owners.

A look through David Larkin’s books on non-pool wagons does show that there were also BR-S and BR-E vehicles. A very tentative idea (of mine) is that D applied to wagon leasing company-owned vehicles; perhaps it stood for Derby, where a central register was most likely to been held. As for E, perhaps Engineers for vehicles on lease to the Engineers departments. But note, these are little more than wild guesses.

 

[eldomtom2]

but some special types, including all tanks,

IIRC wasn't the system there that the railway owned the chassis and the company owned the tank?

 

[Gloster]

IIRC wasn't the system there that the railway owned the chassis and the company owned the tank?

That was the situation with milk tanks, but I don’t think it was the case with other types of tank.

 

[Razorblades]

I was wondering what some of the prefixes on 1960 era private owner registration wagons meant.

What did the following stands for?

• BR(B)
• BR(D)

I haven't come across either BR(E) or BR(S) for registration number prefixes - did these exist?

By the 1960s, I don't think any pre-war ex-private owner wagons remained in service. These had 'P' prefixes I think.

A 'B' prefixed number applied to a BR-built wagon.

A 'DB' rather than 'D' or 'B' signifies a wagon in service/ engineers' use. Some were numbered DB from new, others entered non-revenue service later in life and the 'D' was added to the existing prefix, be that B, M, E, S or W. No wagons, only coaching stock received an SC prefix, and SC has never signified a Scottish-built vehicle.

E, M, S and W prefixes signified that the vehicle had been built by one of the Big Four (LNER, LMS, SR or GWR).

A look through David Larkin’s books on non-pool wagons does show that there were also BR-S and BR-E vehicles. A very tentative idea (of mine) is that D applied to wagon leasing company-owned vehicles; perhaps it stood for Derby, where a central register was most likely to been held. As for E, perhaps Engineers for vehicles on lease to the Engineers departments. But note, these are little more than wild guesses.

See above explanation for D-prefixed vehicles.

That was the situation with milk tanks, but I don’t think it was the case with other types of tank.

This is also my understanding.

 

[Gloster]

Maybe I misunderstood the original post. I thought it referred to the separate wagon registration numbers, not the owners’ fleet numbers. These were obviously no longer needed needed on the wagons that passed to BR, but were still needed on those that were privately owned.

By the 1960s, I don't think any pre-war ex-private owner wagons remained in service. These had 'P' prefixes I think.

Looking through David Larkin’s books again it does seem that some pre-war private owner wagons lasted well into the sixties and the seventies. There may even have been some pre-Great War wagons that lasted into the sixties. Being non-pool some may have only been on short distance flows.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Maybe I misunderstood the original post. I thought it referred to the separate wagon registration numbers, not the owners’ fleet numbers

No, I think you’re correct and Razorblades is referring to the fleet number prefixes. The original post is not about those, but about the separate registration scheme for privately-owned wagons. See also posts 3 and 4 from me and you.
Somewhere, I may have a notebook from a Sunday bunk round Hoo Junction in the early 1980s when we noted a bunch of the BP tankers with BPO-prefixed 5-digit fleet numbers (as used by TOPS) and also longer BR(x) registration numbers on plates on the solebars.