Private Psychometric Testing

[Stigy]

I know there’s a thread on this, but on searching it’s closed to replies, so perhaps if possible a Mod could reopen it and merge the two?

Anyway, thought it might be worth sharing that the Railway Competence Group (RCG) do conduct private Psychometric Testing should an individual wish to pay for their own (I don’t think it’s been mentioned here before). As far as I was aware previously DB did undertake these, and I don’t believe OPC do. I found a post on social media and asked the question. Not sure on prices, but it’s worth bearing in mind.

Good luck all!

 

[Speedbird100]

Do all TOC accept these?

 

[Stigy]

Do all TOC accept these?

Yes. Well, I say yes....they’re completely valid accross all TOCs and FOCs, but if a TOC or FOC wants you to retake them, that’s up to them as per their policy. They’re no different to the OPC assessments.

It’s not often you’re made to resit them as long as they’re current (apart from GWR and maybe one or two others who have thrown a spanner in the worlds of late).

 

[Speedbird100]

Yes. Well, I say yes....they’re completely valid accross all TOCs and FOCs, but if a TOC or FOC wants you to retake them, that’s up to them as per their policy. They’re no different to the OPC assessments.

It’s not often you’re made to resit them as long as they’re current (apart from GWR and maybe one or two others who have thrown a spanner in the worlds of late).

Cheers

 

[DA1]

Yeah it’s closed for a reason because this topic always opens a massive can of worms

 

[Stigy]

Yeah it’s closed for a reason because this topic always opens a massive can of worms

It was closed after three posts with no accompanying post.

I wouldn’t say it’s a can of worms, either you’re for it or against it. It’s quite legitimate

 

[DA1]

I see, might be a different thread. This is the thread I was referring to: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/driver-training.211198/

Certainly makes an interesting discussion!

 

[Stigy]

I see, might be a different thread. This is the thread I was referring to: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/driver-training.211198/

Certainly makes an interesting discussion!

Ah, that kind of makes this thread redundant then I guess. I don’t remember that one, just did a quick search.

 

[PSRR]

Ah, that kind of makes this thread redundant then I guess. I don’t remember that one, just did a quick search.

Thanks for linking to that!

It’s something I’m looking into myself as well. No pressure of there being a job on offer if you pass and also helps me understand whether I am suited to be being a train driver without having to go through the application process.

I believe you can split the assessment day aswell privately so it’s not costing you too much if your fail at the first hurdle of the assessments.

Although I appreciate others will disagree with my justifications, I can see the appeal, I’ve been in a roads policing role for several years and even with a background where concentration and awareness is key but I’ve known friends who have flown jets for a living fail these assessments and not be suited to driving trains. Doing it privately gives the opportunity to see if your suitable before making several applications and initial interviews.
That’s just my opinion though!

Certainly some food for thought and I haven’t made up my mind just yet either!

 

[DriverEight]

4 questions. Are they available during lockdown? Does it include MMI? How much does it cost? How long does it take?

 

[Stigy]

4 questions. Are they available during lockdown? Does it include MMI? How much does it cost? How long does it take?

1. Not sure
2. Not sure
3. Yes
4. Not sure

They replied straight away when I posted a quick query on social media, so probably best to speak to them direct.

The price they had listed for TOC/FOCs to take advantage of was about £170 a person, but it was made clear it would be more than that for an individual (obviously because they’d have far more people to assessment with a TOC/FOC).

 

[Applepie356]

As far as I’m aware doing these tests doesn’t help you in getting past the initial sift, most don’t even ask if you have previously passed assessments upon application.

The only benefit I see is that it fast tracks you to DMI should you get past the sift. COVID has caused a backlog of candidates at assessment centres so it can potentially be beneficial to have already passed the assessments.

 

[221129]

it fast tracks you to DMI should you get past the sift

Not always. The TOC has every right to make you sit them again, and not every TOC uses the same tests.

 

[Stigy]

As far as I’m aware doing these tests doesn’t help you in getting past the initial sift, most don’t even ask if you have previously passed assessments upon application.

The only benefit I see is that it fast tracks you to DMI should you get past the sift. COVID has caused a backlog of candidates at assessment centres so it can potentially be beneficial to have already passed the assessments.

That’s debatable. It 100% helped me I’m sure.

It does depend how they sift people out, but even if you put that you have passed psychometric assessments on your cover letter, that’s a bonus. Then there’s the peace of mind that you’ve done the assessments and they’re good for a few years anyway. It all depends if you think it’s worth the initial outlay.

Not always. The TOC has every right to make you sit them again, and not every TOC uses the same tests.

Agreed, as per post #3. However, far more companies will allow them than not.

 

[60074]

It’s £549.99 to sit the full set with RCG privately

 

[Stigy]

It’s £549.99 to sit the full set with RCG privately

Blimey....I think I’d give that a miss

 

[DriverEight]

Plus travel to Stockport? Is that the only place that does it?

 

[Stigy]

I guess this approach is no different to having to fund your own assessments for the airline industry. Even the ambulance service you have to pay to obtain a class C1 driving licence if you don’t already have one. There’s still no guarantee of a job, and that can cost up to £1,000 with a job about quarter the salary of a train driver at the end of it.

It’s £549.99 to sit the full set with RCG privately

I enquired myself prior to you posting this and they quoted the same, but they’re offering 30% discount throughout March, taking the total to £385.

 

[Choooochoooo]

It’s £549.99 to sit the full set with RCG privately

I went there to retake the mmi after getting failed by the OPC which I thought was a load of tosh. I personally think it’s worthwhile sitting the test if you’re considering the job of train driver for multiple reasons. If you manage to pass it could give you a potential advantage over other candidates that haven’t sat the tests. Also you could wait for years for a job to be advertised in your area and then get put forward to take the tests only to find that you simply can’t do them as not up to the standard. If you sit them privately at least you know one way or the other. And what is £550 if you manage To get a job on a starting salary of 50,000+

 

[Daggers84]

I took the MMI with Rail Competence Group very recently after passing all the psychometric assessments but failing on one question in the MMI through the OPC for a job with a TOC last year. I decided to do it this way as I just wanted to get my 2nd attempt done to know whether I would potentially have a career as a train driver and could stop the dreaming if not. I’m not sure if it gives me an advantage having now passed the assessments over other candidates in the sift, but I have so far applied for 3 jobs, 1 as I say I progressed all the way through to the MMI and the other 2 I’m still waiting on (Grand Central and LNER) and obviously couldn’t say on those applications that I’d passed the assessments so if I’m lucky enough to get to interview stage maybe that’s when having them already done might help depending on how I do in the interview. I would definitely recommend using the RCG, if finances allow, as they were very professional from the first email until my last contact with them and very helpful. In my experience they ran the day exactly as the OPC assessment and although neither were unpleasant I preferred doing my MMI with the RCG.

A further point, I don’t know my results but the TOC I applied for last year required National Standard so obviously if a future job requires Enhanced I will have to do them again, does anyone know if I failed to Enhanced does the National Standard still stand?

 

[Spincity]

I guess this approach is no different to having to fund your own assessments for the airline industry. Even the ambulance service you have to pay to obtain a class C1 driving licence if you don’t already have one. There’s still no guarantee of a job, and that can cost up to £1,000 with a job about quarter the salary of a train driver at the end of it.


I enquired myself prior to you posting this and they quoted the same, but they’re offering 30% discount throughout March, taking the total to £385.

With the Covid restrictions is travel allowed to attend a private assessment, also no hotels open so no accommodation so will be a long day I’m guessing

 

[221129]

With the Covid restrictions is travel allowed to attend a private assessment, also no hotels open so no accommodation so will be a long day I’m guessing

Hotels are open...

 

[Spincity]

I took the MMI with Rail Competence Group very recently after passing all the psychometric assessments but failing on one question in the MMI through the OPC for a job with a TOC last year. I decided to do it this way as I just wanted to get my 2nd attempt done to know whether I would potentially have a career as a train driver and could stop the dreaming if not. I’m not sure if it gives me an advantage having now passed the assessments over other candidates in the sift, but I have so far applied for 3 jobs, 1 as I say I progressed all the way through to the MMI and the other 2 I’m still waiting on (Grand Central and LNER) and obviously couldn’t say on those applications that I’d passed the assessments so if I’m lucky enough to get to interview stage maybe that’s when having them already done might help depending on how I do in the interview. I would definitely recommend using the RCG, if finances allow, as they were very professional from the first email until my last contact with them and very helpful. In my experience they ran the day exactly as the OPC assessment and although neither were unpleasant I preferred doing my MMI with the RCG.

A further point, I don’t know my results but the TOC I applied for last year required National Standard so obviously if a future job requires Enhanced I will have to do them again, does anyone know if I failed to Enhanced does the National Standard still stand?

From what I’ve grasped if you have to sit tests again the new test result replaces the older test. If you need to sit a test for an enhanced standard, you could possibly fail it to national and enhanced. Did the private company say if you passed to enhanced TOCs. Can I also ask why you’d recommend going private, how was doing the MMI better than doing it the traditional route.

Hotels are open...

Not for private use, only available for key workers. Hotels aren’t open til May I thought

 

[Watershed]

With the Covid restrictions is travel allowed to attend a private assessment

Yes - there are specifically defined reasonable excuses for leaving home and gathering indoors, relating to:

(i)applying for, and obtaining, work;

(j)meeting a requirement for a particular area of work;

These would cover assessments undertaken with a view to applying for a job.

Not for private use, only available for key workers.

There is no requirement to be a key worker to use a hotel. Hotels may stay open:

to provide accommodation for any person who—

(i)is unable to return to their main residence;

(ii)uses that accommodation as their main residence;

(iii)needs accommodation for the purposes of a house move;

(iv)needs accommodation to attend a funeral or following a bereavement of a close family member or friend;

(v)needs accommodation to attend a commemorative event to celebrate the life of a person who has died;

(vi)needs accommodation to attend a medical appointment, or to receive treatment;

(via)needs accommodation for the purposes of access to, and contact between, parents and a child where the child does not live in the same household as their parents or one of their parents;

(vii)is a carer of a vulnerable person or a person who has a disability and needs respite;

(viii)is isolating themselves from others as required by law;

(ix)is an elite athlete or the coach of an elite athlete and needs accommodation for the purposes of training or competition or, where an elite athlete is a child, their parent;

(x)needs accommodation to visit a person who is dying;

(b)to provide accommodation for any person who needs accommodation for the purposes of their work or to provide voluntary or charitable services,

If you have a reasonable excuse for leaving home, and it's not reasonably practicable to return home within a day, then an overnight stay is perfectly fine.

Hotels aren’t open til May I thought

The intention is for hotels to reopen for all customers in May. But see above - there are still people who aren't key workers that are entitled to use them.

 

[Daggers84]

From what I’ve grasped if you have to sit tests again the new test result replaces the older test. If you need to sit a test for an enhanced standard, you could possibly fail it to national and enhanced. Did the private company say if you passed to enhanced TOCs. Can I also ask why you’d recommend going private, how was doing the MMI better than doing it the traditional route.


Not for private use, only available for key workers. Hotels aren’t open til May I thought

In my opinion I just felt under a lot less pressure doing it privately with RCG. I felt like I was being interviewed for something I’d done wrong with the OPC (like a police interview) and I didn’t feel like they wanted me there as they’d travelled to do the assessments. Admittedly this may be in my head and because I was taking it for a job at the end of the process where with RCG I wasn’t but it was my final chance at the MMI so still a big thing. This by the way is all my opinion and I’m sure lots of people have had good experiences with doing it through the traditional route. No they didn’t let me know whether I’d passed to National or Enhanced Standard, I’m not sure they’d know that as only done the MMI(that’s not a standard or enhanced pass is it?)

 

[Spincity]

In my opinion I just felt under a lot less pressure doing it privately with RCG. I felt like I was being interviewed for something I’d done wrong with the OPC (like a police interview) and I didn’t feel like they wanted me there as they’d travelled to do the assessments. Admittedly this may be in my head and because I was taking it for a job at the end of the process where with RCG I wasn’t but it was my final chance at the MMI so still a big thing. This by the way is all my opinion and I’m sure lots of people have had good experiences with doing it through the traditional route. No they didn’t let me know whether I’d passed to National or Enhanced Standard, I’m not sure they’d know that as only done the MMI(that’s not a standard or enhanced pass is it?)

Thanks for the reply.

Yes - there are specifically defined reasonable excuses for leaving home and gathering indoors, relating to:



These would cover assessments undertaken with a view to applying for a job.


There is no requirement to be a key worker to use a hotel. Hotels may stay open:


If you have a reasonable excuse for leaving home, and it's not reasonably practicable to return home within a day, then an overnight stay is perfectly fine.


The intention is for hotels to reopen for all customers in May. But see above - there are still people who aren't key workers that are entitled to use them.

I travel for work and getting into a hotel isn’t easy. I have to provide a letter confirming its work related and often from the company im working for, travelling for a private assessment doesn’t fit the criteria. I’d still be very cautious that voluntary paying for an assessment isnt covered as essential travel, just because someone wants to attend a paid assessment this isn’t essential as this isn’t for either a work or to attend an official approved recruitment and not certain if stopped this would fulfil ‘essential’

 

[Watershed]

I travel for work and getting into a hotel isn’t easy.

I don't know what hotels you have been staying at, but I have not had any difficulties whilst staying in hotels for work during this pandemic.

I have to provide a letter confirming its work related and often from the company im working for

That may well be the policy of some hotels, but it is certainly not true for all hotels. It would of course be wise to establish the policies of any hotel you are considering booking.

I’d still be very cautious that voluntary paying for an assessment isnt covered as essential travel, just because someone wants to attend a paid assessment this isn’t essential as this isn’t for either a work or to attend an official approved recruitment and not certain if stopped this would fulfil ‘essential’

The law does not require travel to be essential. The bar is a rather lower one, that you have a reasonable excuse, and there are several things which are automatically said to be a reasonable excuse.

Travelling to an assessment which is part of the skills used to apply for a job is covered under one such excuse (work and training) and is entirely legal. So is staying overnight, if it's reasonably necessary in connection with such an assessment.

I'm going to leave any discussion of that point there to avoid going off topic, but would be wrong to scare anyone into thinking that they can't undertake these assessments due to the location and potential need for an overnight stay.

 

[Efini92]

Don’t waste your money. You’ll get them for free if your application makes the cut.

 

[Spincity]

I don't know what hotels you have been staying at, but I have not had any difficulties whilst staying in hotels for work during this pandemic.


That may well be the policy of some hotels, but it is certainly not true for Covid

The law does not require travel to be essential. The bar is a rather lower one, that you have a reasonable excuse, and there are several things which are automatically said to be a reasonable excuse.

Travelling to an assessment which is part of the skills used to apply for a job is covered under one such excuse (work and training) and is entirely legal. So is staying overnight, if it's reasonably necessary in connection with such an assessment.

I'm going to leave any discussion of that point there to avoid going off topic, but would be wrong to scare anyone into thinking that they can't undertake these assessments due to the location and potential need for an overnight stay.

Definitely worth checking, I’ve stayed in two well known hotel chains over the last 4 weeks and both asked for proof on arrival. One manager said that he is required to ensure the hotel stay is for valid reasons if not he’s (chain) is liable for a £10k fine hence why he was requiring evidence, and that was either a letter from my employer or from the company I was working for.

The special price assessment in March might not be so special if hotel/travel is required and not available.

 

[16.19]

If you can take the tests privately and pass it’s a positive, but a friendly word of warning - don’t fall into the trap in thinking that it will automatically get you an interview, passed the paper sift or indeed the job.

Your initial application and the information you put in there is just as important and will be cross referenced at the points based interview.