• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Problems with Daniels and Dench's "Passengers No More"

Status
Not open for further replies.

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,314
The above-cited reference work, attempting comprehensive furnishing of (within the bounds of common sense) dates of all passenger-service withdrawals -- lines, and stations on lines which overall remained in passenger use -- in Great Britain: is often invaluable to those whose interests lie in that direction. However -- and probably inevitably -- making use of it can often be mildly exasperating: looking for withdrawal date re a particular line, one feels sent "from pillar to post", in seeking in the index, the geographical end-point of the service to which to latch on, to find the relevant date. They by no means always enter in the index, both end-points -- if looking-up, say, the Crumpleton to Midmeddlecum branch, service withdrawn 1/1/1952: one must be ready to look up the C-place, if at first frustrated re the M-place, and vice versa. This, on the compilers' part, is understandable: giving in each case both end-points, would bulk up the index to a degree which would likely be both financially costly; and in practical terms, would in fact deliver as much confusion as clarification.

However inevitable, though -- the way they do things, can be a trial to the enquirer, at least if said enquirer is like me -- sometimes, to the point of total thwarting. I was recently curious for precise information concerning the one-time line (ownership interestingly complex) southward from Weymouth onto the Isle of Portland, terminating at Easton. Was aware of its having lost its passenger service in the 1950s -- not, I think, highly late in that decade -- freight lasted longer -- wished to find out the exact end-of-pass.-service date (which I might have known in earlier times; but, with advancing years etc., subsequently forgotten). On this, Daniels and Dench defeated me -- whatever seen-as-relevant place-name I looked up in the index, failed to deliver.

It could well be that on this "Portland" matter, I was just dim -- or not persistent enough. Nonetheless, felt that "D & D" fell short of perfection index-wise, here. Am wondering whether others have experienced similar frustration, when trying to use this work (and would be grateful to learn from anyone who knows it, the precise date of passenger service withdrawal Weymouth -- Easton !).
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Gloster

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
8,477
Location
Up the creek
Brian Jackson’s Isle of Portland Railways, Volume 2 (Oakwood, 2000) has photos of the last trains on Saturday 1 March 1952, so closure from 3 March 1952. The final section on from Melcombe Regis remained as a summer overflow to the main Weymouth station until 14 September 1959, according to the second edition of Passengers No More and Hurst.

I don’t really have much problem with Passengers No More, although I sometimes need to look through several possibilities to find what I want. However, in a work of this type it does seem to be difficult to be consistent, but this makes a reasonably good fist of it.
 

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,314
Brian Jackson’s Isle of Portland Railways, Volume 2 (Oakwood, 2000) has photos of the last trains on Saturday 1 March 1952, so closure from 3 March 1952. The final section on from Melcombe Regis remained as a summer overflow to the main Weymouth station until 14 September 1959, according to the second edition of Passengers No More and Hurst.

I don’t really have much problem with Passengers No More, although I sometimes need to look through several possibilities to find what I want. However, in a work of this type it does seem to be difficult to be consistent, but this makes a reasonably good fist of it.

Thank you ! Strongly had the feeling that closure of that line was earlier-rather-than-later '50s. (1952 was, I feel, quite a "year of blood" re branch-line closures at least to passengers -- the new BR engaged thus, in plentiful slaughter of seen-as-hopeless branch lines, 1950 -- 53 inclusive; after which, in that context, things eased off somewhat for a few years.)

I "see with my head" that Passengers No More does pretty well re a difficult assignment index-wise; just "feel with my gut" that no matter which end of the branch you look up, you're bound to draw a blank, and you then have to refer to the other one :s .
 

Gloster

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
8,477
Location
Up the creek
In both the first and second edition they have an introduction, slightly rewritten in the second, which gives an idea of how they have tried to organise entries: dead-end branches are listed under the terminal station. They do say in regard to curves and running connections that complete consistency is almost impossible.
 

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,314
I have the third edition; in the introduction to which -- unless I've failed to take it in -- they don't give such a clarification. Looking at the introductory pages: I see that their claim is to list "every known advertised passenger service which was withdrawn between 1919 and 1979". Had been wondering what was their "early" cut-off date: this answers that question, and explains why the book does not include various World War I-related closures -- such as a big favourite of mine: the Bideford, Westward Ho! & Appledore. Basingstoke -- Alton, partly in that category, is featured: with its having been closed 1/1/1917, but reopened -- though not for hugely long -- in 1924 (as per a succinct footnote in the book).
 

Gloster

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
8,477
Location
Up the creek
I used to think that 1923 was their start date in order to coincide with the Ian Allan Pre-Grouping Atlas, but after reading your post I have looked and both the first and second volume also start at 1919. I might hazard a guess that the reason for choosing 1919 was that including earlier closures would just be too complicated due to the temporary closures in World War I.
 

John Webb

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2010
Messages
3,083
Location
St Albans
I used to think that 1923 was their start date in order to coincide with the Ian Allan Pre-Grouping Atlas, but after reading your post I have looked and both the first and second volume also start at 1919. I might hazard a guess that the reason for choosing 1919 was that including earlier closures would just be too complicated due to the temporary closures in World War I.
I haven't seen Daniels and Dench's book. You mention the Ian Allan Pre-grouping Atlas. I recently got a copy of "Atlas of Railway Station Closures 2nd Edition" by Crecy Publishing (2020) which is based on the Ian Allan atlases' pages, but at A4 rather than something akin to the A5 size of the originals. This covers pre-WW1 as well as later years and of course a map is easier to refer to than an index! But I suspect this ease of reference may be off-set by some other factor.
 

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,314
Am discovering via developments re this thread, assorted alternatives / "competitors" to Daniels and Dench, of which I was hitherto unaware. My thanks to all who have informed of same !
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top