Projects you'd build but will (probably) never happen

[BJames]

An outer orbital rail line, but not the bodged together one using existing lines that has been suggested, but an all new one, so that it connects with all the radial lines and serves all the main locations. Zone 4/5 would seem the right distance out for such a service, so well outside the current London Overground, but also well within the Greater London boundary.

Yes yes yes - perhaps rather than the superloop being a bus network make it a new tube line

I find it so frustrating in zone 4/5 area trying to get around and realising half the time it's quicker to go into central London and back out, unless you want to sit on a bus that turns down every side road in existence.

 

[cle]

How? Rainham trains don't go via London Bridge

Yes, they do.

For the Overground, terminating is not the limiting factor. Each platform could probably fit 6 or 8tph if they wanted. Having to share lines with freight on both the North and West London lines means the lines are at capacity.

Rebuilding the whole station is impossible because of the immense disruption associated, and the fact that the station is honed in by Clapham Yard in the middle.

Northern Line has been discussed to death but the TLDR of all of it is that it will cause overcrowding

I think you missed the brief of this thread, it’s a fantastical ask - doesn’t require the usual naysaying. Feel free to add your own. Debunking isn’t a public service here, it’s a bit of fun.

And LO - not the case. There is another LO WLL path and I’d likely have the Southern one too. SLL - there is scope for more.

Northern Line - it’s not been fully confirmed that is the case either. With a full split and 30 odd tph, I think it’d be fine especially post pandemic.

 

[A S Leib]

Some of these might be realistic, others more suitable for this thread.

Four track the Crossrail and Thameslink cores, build a direct link between Tottenham Court Road and St. Pancras Thameslink, and add in services from King's Lynn, Southend, Oxford etc.

Four-track the Circle line (excluding to Hammersmith) but skipping 'minor' stations (e.g. no Great Portland Street and Barbican but have interchanges at Euston Square and Fenchurch Street).

Get East West Rail fully built, including Aylesbury, and fully electrify all Chiltern routes.

Electrify
- the Snow Hill lines
- London Paddington and Birmingham New Street to Carmarthen and Penzance
- Oxford and Birmingham to Hereford and Shrewsbury
- Birmingham to Bournemouth (overhead)
- Marshlink and Uckfield
- Cardiff to Crewe and Chester
- Crewe to Llandudno and Holyhead
- Kettering and Birmingham to Nottingham, Wakefield and Doncaster
- Manchester to York and Hull
- Doncaster and York to Hull
- Northallerton to Redcar
- Glasgow Queen Street and Edinburgh to at least Dundee
- the Harrogate, Saltburn, Exmouth lines... Any relatively short ones with at least 2 tph
- the entirety of Northern Ireland's network (if Newry to Dublin can be done at the same time so much the better)

Ensure that Northampton to Stafford via Birmingham is four-track, build extra platforms for local services at New Street and ensure that Northampton, Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham International, Wolverhampton and Stafford all have at least four stopping and four fast services to Birmingham per hour.

Double-track the entirety of Leamington Spa - Nuneaton and Oxford – Hereford.

Ensure that at least 4 tph can run between Cardiff and Swansea and between Cardiff and Bristol.

Trans or metros for every urban area with at least 200,000 people.

Get HS2, including the Golborne link, to the East Midlands, Sheffield, Leeds and York, built, and keep going south to Bristol and Cardiff.

Build a high-speed line from Liverpool to Hull / York via Warrington, Manchester, Huddersfield and Leeds with a branch via Bradford, and a new line from Doncaster to Liverpool via Sheffield, Manchester Airport, Manchester and Liverpool Airport.

Build a high-speed line between Edinburgh, Glasgow and Stirling.

Build lines to every town of at least 20,000 people.

Ensure that every line where it is not currently the case (e.g. West Highland, Heart of Wales, Esk Valley) has at least one train per two hours.

 

[Strathclyder]

A few Glasgow/Strathclyde examples. Some of these are realistic/practical/benifical while others are pure fantasy:

A north-south tunnel link under Glasgow City Centre with stations at both Queen Street and Central

Quadruple Finnieston - Hyndland

Fully quadruple Shields Junction - Paisley Gilmour Street

Redouble the section between Hamilton Central - Haughhead Junction

Redouble the Balloch, Milngavie & Helensburgh Central branches

Reopen Paisley Canal - Kilmaclom

Redouble Anniesland-Maryhill with a second platform at Kelvindale

A second loop line for the Glasgow Subway in Glasgow's East End largely in spirit with this proposal/concept from 1944

 

[SargeNpton]

I'd go Welsh personally. A branch from HS2 to parallel/upgrade to 4-track the North Wales coast Main Line (potentially double-stack), bypass Bangor and a double track bridge over the Menai. Intermodal freight facility next to the M6 near Crewe and a car shuttle on the old Aluminium plant near Holyhead. Irish Mail route tunnel, reciprocal Intermodal/Car shuttle terminal near Dublin with connection into the Irish Network for Dublin-Belfast routing.

And presumably, re-gauging the Irish Networks to 4' 8½".

 

[YourMum666]

Some of these might be realistic, others more suitable for this thread.

Four track the Crossrail and Thameslink cores, build a direct link between Tottenham Court Road and St. Pancras Thameslink, and add in services from King's Lynn, Southend, Oxford etc.

Four-track the Circle line (excluding to Hammersmith) but skipping 'minor' stations (e.g. no Great Portland Street and Barbican but have interchanges at Euston Square and Fenchurch Street).

Get East West Rail fully built, including Aylesbury, and fully electrify all Chiltern routes.

Electrify
- the Snow Hill lines
- London Paddington and Birmingham New Street to Carmarthen and Penzance
- Oxford and Birmingham to Hereford and Shrewsbury
- Birmingham to Bournemouth (overhead)
- Marshlink and Uckfield
- Cardiff to Crewe and Chester
- Crewe to Llandudno and Holyhead
- Kettering and Birmingham to Nottingham, Wakefield and Doncaster
- Manchester to York and Hull
- Doncaster and York to Hull
- Northallerton to Redcar
- Glasgow Queen Street and Edinburgh to at least Dundee
- the Harrogate, Saltburn, Exmouth lines... Any relatively short ones with at least 2 tph
- the entirety of Northern Ireland's network (if Newry to Dublin can be done at the same time so much the better)

Ensure that Northampton to Stafford via Birmingham is four-track, build extra platforms for local services at New Street and ensure that Northampton, Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham International, Wolverhampton and Stafford all have at least four stopping and four fast services to Birmingham per hour.

Double-track the entirety of Leamington Spa - Nuneaton and Oxford – Hereford.

Ensure that at least 4 tph can run between Cardiff and Swansea and between Cardiff and Bristol.

Trans or metros for every urban area with at least 200,000 people.

Get HS2, including the Golborne link, to the East Midlands, Sheffield, Leeds and York, built, and keep going south to Bristol and Cardiff.

Build a high-speed line from Liverpool to Hull / York via Warrington, Manchester, Huddersfield and Leeds with a branch via Bradford, and a new line from Doncaster to Liverpool via Sheffield, Manchester Airport, Manchester and Liverpool Airport.

Build a high-speed line between Edinburgh, Glasgow and Stirling.

Build lines to every town of at least 20,000 people.

Ensure that every line where it is not currently the case (e.g. West Highland, Heart of Wales, Esk Valley) has at least one train per two hours.

It’s more feasible to upgrade the entire ECML to 155mph, as a kind of secondary high speed route. On certain stretches of the east coast there would be pure 155mph running, Such as York - Darlington, Peterborough - Newark, Doncaster - York, and Knebworth to St Neots

 

[ChiefPlanner]

And presumably, re-gauging the Irish Networks to 4' 8½".

Following the GWR broad gauge conversion of 1892 , that should be achievable in a weekend (points and crossings pre-prepared though) [

 

[zwk500]

And presumably, re-gauging the Irish Networks to 4' 8½".

Well we are in 'probably never happen' territory. Although given the likely costs of the tunnel, I'd go for VGA for a cycle of rolling stock or two to ease the pressure on the books.

 

[mike57]

HS1 - HS2 rail link, I think the failure to even make provision for it will seem very short sighted in the future.

Sort Manchester city centre rail routes out properly. Grade separation, and a proper Pic Vic heavy rail connection if you are going to retain Vic as a major station rather than a commuter station. Then redevelop Vic to make it a more pleasant place. I suspect some of this may get done but no doubt on the basis of a cheap half finished job rather than a proper ground up redevelopment.

Curzon street through platforms, to allow links to north/west of Birmingham. again I think this may be seen in a very negative light in the future.

4 tracking Welwyn viaduct, I know this has been proposed in the past, but in the current climate it looks like another project that will never get beyond the its needed but to expensive category.

 

[class 9]

If we use the old alignment, you think for that going under or over the Otley bypass would be better, it's the only real obstacle in the way (there is a footpath on the old alignment).

Or going the reverse way and making the Otley Bypass go either above or below and reusing the old alignment in full.

I think going over the bypass would be preferable as it is in a cutting.

 

[A S Leib]

It’s more feasible to upgrade the entire ECML to 155mph, as a kind of secondary high speed route. On certain stretches of the east coast there would be pure 155mph running, Such as York - Darlington, Peterborough - Newark, Doncaster - York, and Knebworth to St Neots

Assuming that's in response to the HS2 point, my main aim is improving journey times between Leeds / the North East and Birmingham, not London (although of course Doncaster - Darlington would help a bit with both).

 

[ChiefPlanner]

We need to discuss more Welsh options - Aberystwyth has been mentioned , but we need to consider "Brecon Access" - possibly by setting up an Alliance to consider the 4 options (Neath , Merthyr, Hereford and of course Newport)

Slightly more realistic , still options in the South West Wales valleys area - Ammanford at least and an easy one , the Neath area , Swansea light rail (plenty of options) and various options for North Wales (Amlwch / Caernarvon)

 

[Sad Sprinter]

We need to discuss more Welsh options - Aberystwyth has been mentioned , but we need to consider "Brecon Access" - possibly by setting up an Alliance to consider the 4 options (Neath , Merthyr, Hereford and of course Newport)

Slightly more realistic , still options in the South West Wales valleys area - Ammanford at least and an easy one , the Neath area , Swansea light rail (plenty of options) and various options for North Wales (Amlwch / Caernarvon)

Reorienting access into Swansea so trains from the London direction approach Swansea from the south - enabling through services to West Wales without reversing? I forget what the project name is called.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Double track and electrify the Marshlink line, enabling direct Ashford to Brighton services to run without the severe overcrowding of the previous two carriage Turbostar service, somehow add a bay platform to Bexhill and terminate HS1 extensions there, and reopen Glyne Gap station to serve east Bexhill and the retail park. Oh, and I'd also reopen the north exit at Ore station, with stairs and an inclined lift connecting the station directly to Halton and Ore Village without the uphill slong along Mount Pleasant Road.

An utter waste of resources and will never happen in a million years, but it's entertaining to pontificate what I would do if I were an eccentric billionaire with a narrow local focus.

 

[A S Leib]

Some of these might be realistic, others more suitable for this thread.

Four track the Crossrail and Thameslink cores, build a direct link between Tottenham Court Road and St. Pancras Thameslink, and add in services from King's Lynn, Southend, Oxford etc.

Four-track the Circle line (excluding to Hammersmith) but skipping 'minor' stations (e.g. no Great Portland Street and Barbican but have interchanges at Euston Square and Fenchurch Street).

Get East West Rail fully built, including Aylesbury, and fully electrify all Chiltern routes.

Electrify
- the Snow Hill lines
- London Paddington and Birmingham New Street to Carmarthen and Penzance
- Oxford and Birmingham to Hereford and Shrewsbury
- Birmingham to Bournemouth (overhead)
- Marshlink and Uckfield
- Cardiff to Crewe and Chester
- Crewe to Llandudno and Holyhead
- Kettering and Birmingham to Nottingham, Wakefield and Doncaster
- Manchester to York and Hull
- Doncaster and York to Hull
- Northallerton to Redcar
- Glasgow Queen Street and Edinburgh to at least Dundee
- the Harrogate, Saltburn, Exmouth lines... Any relatively short ones with at least 2 tph
- the entirety of Northern Ireland's network (if Newry to Dublin can be done at the same time so much the better)

Ensure that Northampton to Stafford via Birmingham is four-track, build extra platforms for local services at New Street and ensure that Northampton, Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham International, Wolverhampton and Stafford all have at least four stopping and four fast services to Birmingham per hour.

Double-track the entirety of Leamington Spa - Nuneaton and Oxford – Hereford.

Ensure that at least 4 tph can run between Cardiff and Swansea and between Cardiff and Bristol.

Trans or metros for every urban area with at least 200,000 people.

Get HS2, including the Golborne link, to the East Midlands, Sheffield, Leeds and York, built, and keep going south to Bristol and Cardiff.

Build a high-speed line from Liverpool to Hull / York via Warrington, Manchester, Huddersfield and Leeds with a branch via Bradford, and a new line from Doncaster to Liverpool via Sheffield, Manchester Airport, Manchester and Liverpool Airport.

Build a high-speed line between Edinburgh, Glasgow and Stirling.

Build lines to every town of at least 20,000 people.

Ensure that every line where it is not currently the case (e.g. West Highland, Heart of Wales, Esk Valley) has at least one train per two hours.

To add to the other things I'd do, no service would be shorter than four carriages (apart from possibly the Stourbridge shuttle).

 

[cf111]

A bridge across the Dornoch Firth carrying the Far North Line. While we're at it, a line from Inverness to Fort William via Fort Augustus!

 

[D6975]

Wires to Bristol TM - both ways.
Demolish the old Severn Bridge and build a new double deck bridge, road on top, rail below.
Upgrade Waterloo-Exeter (and extend to Plymouth via inland route) to make it a realistic option to GWR.

 

[stuu]

We need to discuss more Welsh options - Aberystwyth has been mentioned , but we need to consider "Brecon Access" - possibly by setting up an Alliance to consider the 4 options (Neath , Merthyr, Hereford and of course Newport)

It is odd that Brecon never gets much of a mention when its a far larger place than anything between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth.

And off topic - It's always seemed a bit of an anomaly that there was never a railway along the Usk valley to Brecon from Abergavenny. Pretty much every other major river valley in the country had a railway at some point

 

[YourMum666]

Electrifying the GW in full

 

[ChiefPlanner]

It is odd that Brecon never gets much of a mention when its a far larger place than anything between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth.

And off topic - It's always seemed a bit of an anomaly that there was never a railway along the Usk valley to Brecon from Abergavenny. Pretty much every other major river valley in the country had a railway at some point

Slightly tongue in cheek - stripped of all railways in a day (but there were more staff than passengers - and at the time quite rapid depopulation , an area described as a green desert !) - no options or possibilities at all really. Rail action has to be where the population and economic activity is. South and North.

Describing the T1 etc to Aber from Carmarthen linking into a 2 hourly minimum Cambrian main line (hourly in the peaks of course) , really is excellent , especially with catering and wifi !

I am tempted to do a Monty Python sketch , but will refrain.

 

[infobleep]

This is pure fantasy.

I would reopen the Great Central Railway as a steam railway from start to finish. No electric trains. Maybe some diesel but not many.

There would be several short branches off and it would take freight and passengers. So some private sidings would be good too. A nice mix of large and small stations like it once was.

As coal isn't so good for the environment I would look into alternatives whilst still for steam engines.

I did say it was pure fantasy.

Less fantasy but still not likely would be a Guildford to Cranleigh line.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

Demolish the old Severn Bridge and build a new double deck bridge, road on top, rail below.

I know this is purely speculative but it's mad to even consider demolishing a grade 1 listed building with such historical significance, yet alone one which is also a grave

 

[A S Leib]

This is pure fantasy.

I would reopen the Great Central Railway as a steam railway from start to finish. No electric trains. Maybe some diesel but not many.

There would be several short branches off and it would take freight and passengers. So some private sidings would be good too. A nice mix of large and small stations like it once was.

As coal isn't so good for the environment I would look into alternatives whilst still for steam engines.

I did say it was pure fantasy.

Less fantasy but still not likely would be a Guildford to Cranleigh line.

Would that mean just steam services south of Aylesbury as well?

Are there any other closed electric lines, or are Woodhead and Ongar (and Aldwych, Charing Cross and any other tube branches) the only ones? Having a line to use preserved electric trains on would be nice.

 

[8H]

Easily the quickest route historically from most of both sides of the Mersey conurbation to Chester, North Wales and Shropshire, and to a much lesser extent Crewe, is via Birkenhead and Hooton using the old LNWR/GWR mainline. This currently functions as a trundling all stations high frequency service which is successful but well short of its modal shift potential. Whilst the four track formation from Rock Ferry to just south of Hooton is largely removed there should be still be enough old track bed length spaces extant and opportunity to fit a semi fast service in too. There is a much larger commuter and leisure market to be tempted out of cars than rail currently shares. Presently we have a slowish Merseyrail and a slowish TfW service to Chester. The forthcoming Bidston Wrexham line service improvements are welcome but will only really be competitive for North Wales coast connections, dependent on a better rebuilt Shotton HL/LL interchange. This would also require more creativity than we are currently seeing about how Chester station works too, so that could be chucked in too!

 

[43172]

Double track the line over the river Tamar, either by building a second bridge alongside the existing one or a new bridge (making sure that it's electricfication ready for the future).

 

[Pete_uk]

Because the current one is knackered or another reason?

Because the current one is knackered or another reason?

It would allow higher speeds, little or no water ingress and maybe (if double bore) two trains under the Severn at once.

 

[Clayton]

Oxford to Witney and on to Cheltenham and Cowley at each end. The traffic is just atrocious!

 

[birchesgreen]

Birmingham Orbital, a new line following the route of the Outer Circle.

 

[Topological]

Reorienting access into Swansea so trains from the London direction approach Swansea from the south - enabling through services to West Wales without reversing? I forget what the project name is called.

I am not sure whether there is a way to do it, would need some tight curves to get from the eastern approach to swing round towards the Carmarthen line.

I do think there should be a link from Port Talbot straight into Swansea with a new bridge over the River Neath. The time saving for faster trains to Cardiff Central would be large and there is still space for a station near Swansea docks. The old line would then become a metro system. New station to be served by London (2 tph, extending the Cardiff terminator) and Manchester trains (Hourly again instead of 1tp2h).

Occasional faster trains to West Wales could run via the district line and serve a new Swansea station as proposed by the open access plan.

If a bit more money was spent a second island could be created at Port Talbot so metro trains could terminate in the central platforms and passengers could then board faster services from the two outside platforms.

A little bit more money could then deliver some speed increases between Cardiff and Bridgend and/or routing via the airport.

 

[infobleep]

Would that mean just steam services south of Aylesbury as well?

Are there any other closed electric lines, or are Woodhead and Ongar (and Aldwych, Charing Cross and any other tube branches) the only ones? Having a line to use preserved electric trains on would be nice.

I'd have to allow the Tube to run still.

My next interest then is to fully reopen Haywards Heath to Ardingly and make that fully electric but only as far as Horstead Keynes. The route to East Grinstead would be double-track as it was.

Back to reality now.