Promise To Pay

[Tallguy]

I hear a lot about this type of ticket on this forum, could someone please explain how it works and if I am Able to obtain one from a Chiltern Railways TVM if the machine won’t sell tickets and the booking office is closed? Are they available from other TOC’s TVM’s? With the imminent closure of the ticket offices and the frequent failure of the TVM’s I am well aware that one day soon I will be unable to purchase a ticket on demand for my journey and therefore have to board the train without a ticket and potentially face an argument about how the TVM is working, even when it wasn’t with a ticket inspector, gate line staff etc. Thanks.

 

[Haywain]

Promise to Pay is unique to Northern operated TVMs.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Promise to Pay is unique to Northern operated TVMs.

Just to expand on that: Chiltern's TVMs could offer them (as they have the same ones as Northern) but the functionality isn't enabled on their fleet.

It should also be noted, however, that all of Chiltern's stations with ticket barriers (with the possible exception of Banbury, given the need to cross the bridge to get from the multi-storey car park to the Ticket Office) have Compulsory Ticket Areas, though a Penalty Fare can't be charged if there's no "opportunity to buy" (e.g. the Ticket Office is closed, the TVM only takes card and you want to pay by cash, or buy a discounted ticket that isn't available from a TVM, etc.)

 

[L401CJF]

Promise to Pay is unique to Northern operated TVMs.

Transport for Wales TVMs offer them too, but very rare anybody obtains one as its not really emphasised like it is with Northern.

 

[1955LR]

Transport for Wales TVMs offer them too, but very rare anybody obtains one as its not really emphasised like it is with Northern.

I have only recently noticed its available at the TVM in Newtown (NWT) but you also cannot go straight to it, its available at the point one would pay after imputing the journey etc and only mentioned in the small print in the notices

 

[Haywain]

Chiltern's TVMs could offer them (as they have the same ones as Northern) but the functionality isn't enabled on their fleet.

So could LNER or anyone else using Flowbird TVMs, but they don't.

Transport for Wales TVMs offer them too,

I didn't know that, they've never been mentioned on here before, as far as I know.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Transport for Wales TVMs offer them too, but very rare anybody obtains one as its not really emphasised like it is with Northern.

Mentioned here ("Buy before you board FAQs")...

Revenue protection | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

TfW webpage extract...

I want to pay by cash but the Ticket Vending Machine at my station is card only

Speak with a member of staff at the earliest opportunity and/or obtain a Promise 2 Pay to exchange for a ticket – You may then pay by cash without any additional charges.

 

[Halwynd]

I'm not sure whether I am correct, but my own understanding of PTP is that it is for those who want to pay cash at a TVM which only accepts card payments - or where the ticket a passenger wishes to buy is not listed?

From Northern's website:

A Promise to Pay notice is a ticket that must be obtained from our ticket vending machines if customers do not have the facility to pay by credit/debit card. The Promise to Pay notice allows customers to board the train with the intention of exchanging the notice at the first opportunity with a revenue officer, or at the next available booking office.

Penalty Fares

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

If your ticket is listed, do the rules state that you have to pay with cash?

I have used a PTP once, when the TVM was working but the payment card module was not. It was for a listed Off Peak Return which cost a little over £50. I explained the situation and the Guard took my PTP ticket and accepted payment by card without question - perhaps it might not have been so easy at a gateline... These days I don't tend to carry that amount of cash with me, but could a Guard or a gateline inspector following the rules to the letter have insisted on cash?

 

[WolvertonWorks]

Reading the bits about the ticket office closure proposals on this morning's newspaper headlines online this caught my eye:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/rail-firms-admit-elderly-disabled-30801357

Tricia Williams, chief operating officer at Northern, said: “We need to modernise to meet the changing needs of our customers and we are seeking views from the public on these proposals.” The firm said passengers wishing to use cash can obtain a “promise to pay” ticket from machines and then buy one on the train.


Re-reading it I see it is a quote from Northern but I read it as that all companies would need to offer the ability to obtain a PTP at a station if passengers couldn't use the machine to buy a ticket for whatever reason.

This quote astonished me - surely the machines should already be of a height to accommodate wheelchair users etc. The original DDA dates back to 1995 and has been updated since then. Has someone only just realised machines don't comply?

South Western Railway​

“Potential of negative impact of Ticket Vending Machines: Not accessible for wheelchair users due to the height of the screen and card reader. No audio available so not accessible for visually impaired customers and customers with reduced literacy levels. For customers with visual impairments the contrast on the TVM screen is a challenge…

 

[Tallguy]

The contrast on the TVM screen is not a challenge. It is quite easy to fix but it means siting the machines correctly so the sun and reflections don’t hit the display and have a touch screen that has suitable colour palette and contrast ration available. And choose colours that provide suitable contrast to comply with the DDA.

It ain’t rocket science.

 

[Haywain]

The contrast on the TVM screen is not a challenge. It is quite easy to fix but it means siting the machines correctly so the sun and reflections don’t hit the display and have a touch screen that has suitable colour palette and contrast ration available. And choose colours that provide suitable contrast to comply with the DDA.

It ain’t rocket science.

The angle of the sun, and reflections, will vary according to the time of year meaning that in some places it is close to impossible to avoid any such problems at any time. And that will be impacted by the available sites for installation of TVMs.

 

[island]

If your ticket is listed, do the rules state that you have to pay with cash?

If you intend to pay with card then you should do so at the ticket machine.

I have used a PTP once, when the TVM was working but the payment card module was not. It was for a listed Off Peak Return which cost a little over £50. I explained the situation and the Guard took my PTP ticket and accepted payment by card without question

If the ticket machine wasn’t able to accept your card then paying onboard is perfectly fine. Strictly a PTP isn’t required in this instance but having one prevents disputes.

The original DDA dates back to 1995 and has been updated since then.

The Disability Discrimination Act was repealed in 2010 as respects Great Britain.

 

[Halwynd]

If the ticket machine wasn’t able to accept your card then paying onboard is perfectly fine. Strictly a PTP isn’t required in this instance but having one prevents disputes.

OK, thank you.