Proposed new Channel Tunnel services discussion

[TheGrew]

I've mentioned it earlier in this thread by I really think Marne Le Valley would work with a combination of Direct Disney (and Eastern Paris) traffic and well-timed connections. It has the space to construct a secure area. Perhaps alternatively include it as a stop with the train continuing to one of the Swiss destinations.

 

[lkoroes]

The suggestion to abolish the 30-minute minimum for arriving at the station is underrated.

 

[cle]

The suggestion to abolish the 30-minute minimum for arriving at the station is underrated.

100%. I’ve been caught out by this awful ‘conformance’ T5 aping, so no personal fan. But it doesn just encourage people to hang around. No seats. No-one allowed onto the platforms either - reasons I know but all connected to capacity.

Koln/Frankfurt - remember these wouldn’t call at Liege or Aachen (as Amsterdams miss AMS and Antwerp) - so journey times should beat today’s.

There is a fair bit of slack too. A Brussels nonstop was once 1h50. Amsterdam is likely doable in 3h40. Frankfurt 4h20 with Brussels/Koln only. But they won’t give away that padding, a shame as those would be the best marketing tools.

In order - my POV is:
- Paris competition
- Amsterdam frequency
- Disney / Geneva single service
- Koln / Frankfurt
- Summer services to SoF which aim to establish at least Lyon as year round, eventually (could split from Disney/Geneva at MdV)
- Summer to Bordeaux
- Further to likes of Basel/Zurich. One day, Turin/Milan.
- AVE nonstop to Montpellier, Perp, Girona, Barcelona. But this could have called/split at Lille or Disney.

There are also options for hubs, shuttles and splitting at Lille and MdV in a more formalized way.

 

[FlyingPotato]

In the short term a lot of these could be achieved with a cross platform interchange at Lille if certain services were extended to Lille for example the Brussels Frankfurt train

 

[BahrainLad]

Presumably as more and more of the Brussels services are extended to Amsterdam over the next few years, cross platform interchange onto ICE at Midi could become effectively guaranteed? At least in the outbound ex UK direction.

 

[Frothy]

In my future cross-Channel network I would make add the following secure platform locations

• Bordeaux
• Tours or St-Pierre-des-Corps to serve a Bordeaux route
• Lyon. A lot of the platforms are gated now, I thing platform A at Part-Dieu is probably best - maybe extend this north towards Brotteaux or reuse some facility there. Part-Dieu is busy so a platform at Perrache might work better, but this would require a reversal for trains coming from further south
• Marseille. As the station is rebuilt as a through station with underground tracks, a terminus platform or two could be freed up for a Paris-style operation.
• Strasbourg - may require a new platform to be built to the west of the station. Could be part of a route to Frankfurt or Switzerland.
• Basel. Re-use the SNCF facility here? Although it seems this might be lost as part of construction works here.
• Geneva will be trickier than other forumers suggest I fear, given the plans to rebuild the station and bring the existing French platforms into more general use.
• Köln. A platform at Messe-Deutz might be easier to find than one at Hbf.
• Frankfurt (Main) Hbf. A terminus platform should be available - the southernmost one for instance looks like it would work.
• An expanded facility at Calais - Fréthun would be handy, to replace Lille shuffle type operations

This would expand the cross-channel network in most conceivable directions for day trains of up to 6 hours. If checks couldn't be completed initially at origin stations on the continent then a replacement facility e.g. Calais would pick up the slack.

This would even allow night services e.g. Nice-London, where a service could set off around 1900, arrive Marseille about 2130, complete formalities and turndown service on the train and set off towards London in night mode about 2200. Services from further afield could run under less restrictive rules for more of their journey. E.g. a Vienna-London service could leave Vienna 1800 say, Munich circa 2230, arrive Calais about 0800 the next day, complete formalities by 0900 and be in London before 1000.

I was at a conference in 2023 where the head of SBB said they were actively working on services to London but of course there's been no announcements on this to date, and I doubt they want to install secure facilities at Zürich.

Just my thoughts.

 

[williamn]

I think a lot of the above can go into a speculation forum. It’s been said time and again for example that there is no platform capacity at Cologne.

 

[FlyingPotato]

In my future cross-Channel network I would make add the following secure platform locations

• Bordeaux
• Tours or St-Pierre-des-Corps to serve a Bordeaux route
• Lyon. A lot of the platforms are gated now, I thing platform A at Part-Dieu is probably best - maybe extend this north towards Brotteaux or reuse some facility there. Part-Dieu is busy so a platform at Perrache might work better, but this would require a reversal for trains coming from further south
• Marseille. As the station is rebuilt as a through station with underground tracks, a terminus platform or two could be freed up for a Paris-style operation.
• Strasbourg - may require a new platform to be built to the west of the station. Could be part of a route to Frankfurt or Switzerland.
• Basel. Re-use the SNCF facility here? Although it seems this might be lost as part of construction works here.
• Geneva will be trickier than other forumers suggest I fear, given the plans to rebuild the station and bring the existing French platforms into more general use.
• Köln. A platform at Messe-Deutz might be easier to find than one at Hbf.
• Frankfurt (Main) Hbf. A terminus platform should be available - the southernmost one for instance looks like it would work.
• An expanded facility at Calais - Fréthun would be handy, to replace Lille shuffle type operations

This would expand the cross-channel network in most conceivable directions for day trains of up to 6 hours. If checks couldn't be completed initially at origin stations on the continent then a replacement facility e.g. Calais would pick up the slack.

This would even allow night services e.g. Nice-London, where a service could set off around 1900, arrive Marseille about 2130, complete formalities and turndown service on the train and set off towards London in night mode about 2200. Services from further afield could run under less restrictive rules for more of their journey. E.g. a Vienna-London service could leave Vienna 1800 say, Munich circa 2230, arrive Calais about 0800 the next day, complete formalities by 0900 and be in London before 1000.

I was at a conference in 2023 where the head of SBB said they were actively working on services to London but of course there's been no announcements on this to date, and I doubt they want to install secure facilities at Zürich.

Just my thoughts.

Some of these Definitely belongs in speculative discussion, but I like and find the idea of Calais as a shuffle facility interesting given it's proximity to the UK and to already have British immigration officers present (I believe), no idea about in practice tho

 

[Trainbike46]

Some of these Definitely belongs in speculative discussion, but I like and find the idea of Calais as a shuffle facility interesting given it's proximity to the UK and to already have British immigration officers present (I believe), no idea about in practice tho

The Lille shuffle has been used in the past - why transfer that to Calais, instead of using Lille?

Connections at Lille really should be used more - it is hard to serve everything with direct trains, but connections in Lille could be set up fairly quickly - it is mostly a ticketing matter.

 

[Bald Rick]

In my future cross-Channel network I would make add the following secure platform locations

No one is goimg to spend money on new platforms or segregating existing platforms without the expectation of significsnt traffic flows, and most of the places you suggest won’t have them.

This would even allow night services e.g. Nice-London, where a service could set off around 1900, arrive Marseille about 2130, complete formalities and turndown service on the train and set off towards London in night mode about 2200.

Leaving aside that 30 minutes wouldn’t be long enough for ‘formailites’, a train leaving Marseille at 2200 would miss the LGV and not be near Paris until at least 0600, meaning a London arrival 0930 earliest if the train could use the LGV Nord and HS1.

As ever there is no propect of overnight services via the tunnel. The economics just do not stack up.


There’s no point having a new ‘shuffle’ facility at a location where the trains don’t need to stop for traffic purposes. Lille or Marne la Valée are the only realistic places. Personally I would opt for the latter, as having a more frequent service at MLV would be very attractive for the Disney fans.

 

[TheWierdOne]

As ever there is no propect of overnight services via the tunnel. The economics just do not stack up.

The only realistic way they happen is via going after the luxury market, heavy subsidy, or by using classic lines either side of the tunnel to save access fees, at the cost of a longer journey time.

 

[Bald Rick]

The only realistic way they happen is via going after the luxury market, heavy subsidy, or by using classic lines either side of the tunnel to save access fees, at the cost of a longer journey time.

They would have to use the classic lines in France, as the LGVs won‘t be open at the times the sleeper would run.

 

[gravitystorm]

I went through St Pancras a week ago, and I noticed two capacity- or throughput-related changes that I think have happened in the last few months:

• The duty-free mini-shop that was in the middle of the seated area (on the right, in front of Pret) has gone, at last. I once got told off for sitting on the floor there, because I was blocking access to the shelves. I complained in writing that it was doubly passenger-unfriendly to remove seating capacity for an unnecessary duty free mini-shop (when there's a proper shop nearby), and then secondly to have staff hassling customers who had nowhere to sit except on the floor, due to the lack of seating. So good riddance to that, and I'm glad to see the space has been filled with seats again.
• There are now two rows of French border control booths - the second row is accessed by a small passage down the side of the first. When I was there only one row was in use, but it's clearly extra capacity to handle more passengers per hour when they need it.

I'll be keeping an eye out for any more improvements in the future.

 

[Snow1964]

According to this translated Swiss article, it appears SBB have got agreement with Getlink regarding running a high speed service to Switzerland. Even mentions using a reserved platform at Geneva and Zurich

If the project goes ahead, the new direct trains from Geneva and Zurich are expected to arrive at St Pancras station in London.

The project has also just been the subject of an agreement between the British station and the Getlink group which manages the Channel Tunnel.

There is enthusiasm among both British and Swiss passengers. “We feel so disconnected after Brexit. This kind of direct connection would be incredible,” says one Briton.

Choosing best route​

Swiss Railways is also pleased with the project. However, the company notes that Swiss railway stations will have to be adapted to accommodate these new passengers.

+ Trains often more expensive than flights for Europe trips

“We now have the challenge of having to reserve a platform to be able to make a terminal. Perhaps we will temporarily put a departure in the peripheral stations of Geneva to be able to ensure it starts. And then we will return to the main station once the development work is finished,” suggests Vincent Ducrot, Swiss railways director.

The biggest challenge will be which route to take, says public transport specialist Momentum Transport. The line could, for example, go through Brussels and Germany, or a new TGV section could be built between Lille and Reims in France.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/various/new-rail-links-planned-from-switzerland-to-london/88979401?utm_source=multiple&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=news_en&utm_content=o&utm_term=wpblock_highlighted-compact-news-carousel

 

[mad_rich]

According to this translated Swiss article, it appears SBB have got agreement with Getlink regarding running a high speed service to Switzerland. Even mentions using a reserved platform at Geneva and Zurich

I don't think that article tells us anything we don't know - except perhaps SBB reiterating that they're still keen.

They just say they need a platform, not how they're going to achieve it.

Interesting that they're open to using a secondary station in Geneva temporarily, while facilities are built at Cornavin. That does seem like an excellent way to put passengers off the experience before it's even started! (Also, where else can they reach on 25kv?)

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

I don't think that article tells us anything we don't know - except perhaps SBB reiterating that they're still keen.

They just say they need a platform, not how they're going to achieve it.

Interesting that they're open to using a secondary station in Geneva temporarily, while facilities are built at Cornavin. That does seem like an excellent way to put passengers off the experience before it's even started! (Also, where else can they reach on 25kv?)

Most likely to be Vernier station which is fairly close to the airport terminal but on the main line so not without merit. A LGV from Lille to Reims is a tad optimistic, though!

 

[nwales58]

I don't think that article tells us anything we don't know - except perhaps SBB reiterating that they're still keen.

I generally look for the source of such articles, press release or whatever, because more might have been said or journalist misunderstood the meat of it.

Although this one quotes Vincent Ducrot, “swiss railways director”, Vincent Ducros (soundalike) actually works for Getlink.

Anyone seen whether this really is a new SBB announcement or simply Getlink keeping it in the news every month, as they must, but no progress?

 

[rvdborgt]

Anyone seen whether this really is a new SBB announcement or simply Getlink keeping it in the news every month, as they must, but no progress?

There was an SBB press conference where nothing new was said about any direct trains to London:

Jon Worth (@jonworth.eu)

And yeah, here we go - from RTS https://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/2025/article/trains-directs-suisse-londres-le-projet-ambitieux-des-cff-pour-2030-28813841.html No, there was NOTHING new in yesterday's press conference. No trains, no paths, no details about stations. But yeah "une ligne directe...

bsky.app

 

[HS2isgood]

There was an SBB press conference where nothing new was said about any direct trains to London:

Jon Worth (@jonworth.eu)

And yeah, here we go - from RTS https://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/2025/article/trains-directs-suisse-londres-le-projet-ambitieux-des-cff-pour-2030-28813841.html No, there was NOTHING new in yesterday's press conference. No trains, no paths, no details about stations. But yeah "une ligne directe...

bsky.app

Actually the most interesting things were that they want a new night train to Copenhagen/Malmö and day trains instead of the previously announced night trains to Rome and Barcelona.

 

[nwales58]

Actually the most interesting things were that they want a new night train to Copenhagen/Malmö and day trains instead of the previously announced night trains to Rome and Barcelona.

Interesting. Do you have a URL or did you watch a video stream of the press conference? I can't see anything on news.sbb.ch yet.

 

[BahrainLad]

Virgin aims to raise £700m to rival Eurostar on cross-Channel trains

Richard Branson’s group plans rail routes linking London to Paris and Brussels, and maybe Amsterdam

www.theguardian.com

 

[Austriantrain]

Virgin aims to raise £700m to rival Eurostar on cross-Channel trains

Richard Branson’s group plans rail routes linking London to Paris and Brussels, and maybe Amsterdam

www.theguardian.com

And, as always seemed obvious, they will focus on existing destinations. Competition will do nothing for new destinations.

 

[nwales58]

Any capacity increase could/should lower fares.

Capacity … oh dear … new entrants are cart before horse …

 

[williamn]

Any capacity increase could/should lower fares.

Capacity … oh dear … new entrants are cart before horse …

Not necessarily, there are high per passenger fixed costs for any operator.

 

[nwales58]

DB class 406 fleet is for sale on db-gebrauchtzug.de

No-one here needs telling what the snag with these is, but now is a good time for yet another new entrant to propose buying them, avoiding new build delays, and run services to germany from everywhere including London? Global Raillines maybe?

 

[Snow1964]

I generally look for the source of such articles, press release or whatever, because more might have been said or journalist misunderstood the meat of it.

Although this one quotes Vincent Ducrot, “swiss railways director”, Vincent Ducros (soundalike) actually works for Getlink.

Anyone seen whether this really is a new SBB announcement or simply Getlink keeping it in the news every month, as they must, but no progress?

Seems SBB (Swiss Railways) have put a procurement on Simap (which I think is Swiss tendering platform) for 40 High Speed trains for European services, Barcelona and London included in possible destinations.

Swiss Federal Railways is considering the procurement of up to 40 high-speed trains that could service international connections, such as Italy and France.​

The fleet could also be used for other destinations such as Barcelona or London from 2030. More and more customers in other countries are travelling to and from Switzerland by train, and further growth is expected.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/various/sbb-examines-procurement-of-high-speed-trains/89005040?utm_source=multiple&utm_campaign=swi-rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_content=o

 

[Austriantrain]

Yes, SBB seem to have gone off night trains towards long-distance day trains, which are much easier economically of course and are increasing in popularity.

 

[TheWierdOne]

So Eurostar apparently tried to force the ORR to let Eurostar have a say in whether there is sufficient capacity at Temple Mills. Suffice to say Eurostar got given very short shrift. The ORRs independent advisor is due to report on depot capacity shortly so a decision might not be too far off.

Office of Rail and Road tells Eurostar who will make Temple Mills capacity decision

Operator had suggested regulator's process was not suitable for deciding if a second operator could use the HS1 depot.

www.railmagazine.com

The Office of Rail and Road (ORR) has written to Eurostar to say it will make the decision on whether a second operator can use Temple Mills International Depot.

Eurostar said ORR was “in no position...to make a direction”, claiming that the regulator’s process for considering depot applications was “not designed or suited” to considering an access application that relates ultimately to a cross-border, high-speed passenger rail service.

ORR’s Access Policy Adviser Ian Biggar has now written to Eurostar, saying that Temple Mills is not exempt from Section 17 applications, and that the fact further information is needed before a decision can be made does not prevent the regulator from considering Evolyn’s and Virgin’s requests.

ORR has appointed an independent expert to assess any potential space at Temple Mills. Their report is due this month, with the regulator set to make a decision later this year on both the Evolyn and Virgin Section 17 requests.

 

[TheGrew]

Eurostar getting a say in that is frankly silly. Good to see the ORR regulating as it is supposed to!

 

[signed]

Eurostar getting a say in that is frankly sill

SNCF antics, it's a carbon copy of their conducts over in continental