Proposed reopening of Stoke-Leek Line

[Stephen Lee]

Leek to Stoke-on-Trent rail line reopening being investigated

Public transport links between Stoke-on-Trent and leek are abysmal, local councillors say.

bbc.in

I wondered which company will be the operator of the whole route and are there any other routes in West Midlands which are proposed to be reopened

 

[D6130]

Alton Towers is on the route between Stoke and Leek?.....that's a new one on me!

Was any funding applied for under the Restore your Railways scheme?

 

[Railwaysceptic]

So, the station at Leek is now a supermarket. How much of the rest of the route is still intact?

 

[D6130]

So, the station at Leek is now a supermarket. How much of the rest of the route is still intact?

Last time I was in the area - which was admittedly a few years ago now - the track was still in situ (although rather overgrown in places) between Stoke and Leek Brook Junction, which is about a mile from Leek itself and is the location of the connection with the Churnet Valley Railway.

 

[Killingworth]

The Churnet Valley Railway stops short of Alton Towers at Oakamoor going south and would have difficulty going further north through Leek thanks to that supermarket. Reopening further south to Uttoxeter would run into a substantial obstacle at Rocester where it would need to go through JCB's International HQ.

History of that line at; https://www.churnetvalleyrailway.co.uk/lmsbr

 

[swt_passenger]

Alton Towers is on the route between Stoke and Leek?.....that's a new one on me!

Was any funding applied for under the Restore your Railways scheme?

Yes, Stoke to Leek is on the DfT list of successful applicants for funding, see below.

I wondered which company will be the operator of the whole route and are there any other routes in West Midlands which are proposed to be reopened

Yes, Stoke to Leek is one of a number of proposals across the country, and the West Midlands, and the list has been regularly discussed before. The last DfT list from October can be found here:

Restoring your railway: successful bids - GOV.UK

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk

 

[The Planner]

Depends on what you decide to do at Stoke. Is it a stand alone service with a new bay platform (or not), or do you bi-mode and extend the Northern service along there?

 

[MattRat]

The Churnet Valley Railway stops short of Alton Towers at Oakamoor going south and would have difficulty going further north through Leek thanks to that supermarket. Reopening further south to Uttoxeter would run into a substantial obstacle at Rocester where it would need to go through JCB's International HQ.

History of that line at; https://www.churnetvalleyrailway.co.uk/lmsbr

This sounds like there's stuff going on behind the scenes we don't know about. Why this clearly nightmare of an operation when they could have chosen other options?

 

[Stephen Lee]

Yes, Stoke to Leek is on the DfT list of successful applicants for funding, see below.

Yes, Stoke to Leek is one of a number of proposals across the country, and the West Midlands, and the list has been regularly discussed before. The last DfT list from October can be found here:

Restoring your railway: successful bids - GOV.UK

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk

Anyother?

 

[snowball]

This sounds like there's stuff going on behind the scenes we don't know about. Why this clearly nightmare of an operation when they could have chosen other options?

Just because it got through one early round of approval doesn't mean it's going to happen. Only a very few schemes nationally will happen.

 

[swt_passenger]

Anyother?

Are you asking if I’ll read the DfT list?

 

[MattRat]

Just because it got through one early round of approval doesn't mean it's going to happen. Only a very few schemes nationally will happen.

Well even a small amount of digging would have undone that approval, so what happened?

 

[A0]

Leek to Stoke-on-Trent rail line reopening being investigated

Public transport links between Stoke-on-Trent and leek are abysmal, local councillors say.

bbc.in

I wondered which company will be the operator of the whole route and are there any other routes in West Midlands which are proposed to be reopened

Don't bet on this one reopening.

It's got through the first phase of Restoring Your Railway (RYR) - which basically unlocks funding for a full business case.

There's a good chance that the full business case will kill this one off - so it's somewhat premature to even be speculating which operator would run any service.

 

[Killingworth]

This sounds like there's stuff going on behind the scenes we don't know about. Why this clearly nightmare of an operation when they could have chosen other options?

Ah, but that's going to Uttoxeter. Stoke is nothing like as difficult, but still likely to be very expensive even though track that lead on to Cauldron Quarry seems to have been raised relatively recently .

 

[MattRat]

Ah, but that's going to Uttoxeter. Stoke is nothing like as difficult, but still likely to be very expensive even though track that lead on to Cauldron Quarry seems to have been raised relatively recently .

We are talking about a Government that is allergic to spending money....

 

[43096]

We are talking about a Government that is allergic to spending money....

And a Government that has borrowed huge amounts in the last two years to, amongst other things, bail out a railway that cannot control its costs. Frankly, these projects need binning for the time being until such time as the railway in general is stable and affordable (for taxpayers) again.

 

[A0]

We are talking about a Government that is allergic to spending money....

Not sure that stands scrutiny, particularly over the last 2 years where huge amounts have been spent.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

There are several threads on the various proposals for this line.

Stoke-on-Trent to Endon is connected to the NR network and is, theoretically, intact throughout but very overgrown.
Endon to Leekbrook was cleared a few years ago by whichever of the companies, sort of linked by common shareholdings, to the Churnet Valley Railway. It was used a small number of times to meet the terms of the grant awarded at the time.
Leekbrook towards Leek has progressed, oh as far as the line already existed since the 1980's (the road leading to the sewage works). The former loop (to allow reversal to Oakamoor sand sidings) was lifted and relaid with great ceremony.

Leekbrook to Ipstones was restored and is in occasional use by the CVR.
Ipstones to Cauldon was lifted in order to raise cash.

Leekbrook to Froghall was restored and is in regular use by the CVR.
Froghall to Oakamoor Sand Sidings was lifted to raise cash.
Oakamoor Sand Sidings to Oakamoor level crossing is fenced off.
Oakamoor (via Alton) to Denstone is in use as a walkway.
Denstone to Rocester and beyond is obliterated. It runs through some houses, then the JCB lorry park, car park, World Headquarters and new golf course.
Rocester to Spath you could more easily re-instate.
Spath to Uttoxeter you have the small matter of the A50 and an industrial estate.

 

[Bald Rick]

It's got through the first phase of Restoring Your Railway (RYR) - which basically unlocks funding for a full business case.

Slight correction, it contributes funding (the proposer must contribute too) towards an initial Strategic Outline Business Case. This is the sort of thing it takes a consultancy a couple of person-months to do.

A full business case is much, much more work.

 

[KINSEY.]

Didn't a company called Moorlands Railway have big plans to restore all these lines, around 10 years ago

 

[Chester1]

Didn't a company called Moorlands Railway have big plans to restore all these lines, around 10 years ago

Yes but the track from Froghall to Oakamoor and Ipstones to Cauldon was lifted to pay for some of the project.... The Moorlands and City Railway and Churnett Valley Railway seem to have a strange relationship and the line has always struggled financially. The only long term future of the Cauldon Branch and CVR south of Lee Brook is as a 10 and a half mile heritage railway between Ipstones and Froghall. The decision in 2014 to lift the track between Ipstones and Cauldon and Froghall and Oakamoor sand siding says all that needs to be said about the viability of those sections. Reopening Ipstones to Froghall is a huge achievement but it is were the projects should stop. If Stoke - Leek is reopened by Network Rail then there is sufficient space for a short section of parallel tracks near Lee Brook with a NR station close to the CVR station.

 

[adrock1976]

I have had a quick eyeball on Google Maps of the disused line and if I have traced it right, it diverged at Stoke Junction just before where the Derby line via Uttoxeter diverges near City Road.

This does seem to be a curvaceous route, with the shortest route to Stoke station (plus Hanley Town Centre) from Leek being via road.

Being as parts of the formation has been lost in some places, could the bus link be added into the railway ticketing system?

 

[Ash Bridge]

I have had a quick eyeball on Google Maps of the disused line and if I have traced it right, it diverged at Stoke Junction just before where the Derby line via Uttoxeter diverges near City Road.

This does seem to be a curvaceous route, with the shortest route to Stoke station (plus Hanley Town Centre) from Leek being via road.

Being as parts of the formation has been lost in some places, could the bus link be added into the railway ticketing system?

I don’t think any parts have actually been lost even though it appears that way when using Google Sat View; its just so heavily overgrown after 30 years or so since the last sand trains passed, the rails are still there under all the growth - I think there is a video or two on YouTube made fairly recently where they walk most of the former route.

 

[Chester1]

I have had a quick eyeball on Google Maps of the disused line and if I have traced it right, it diverged at Stoke Junction just before where the Derby line via Uttoxeter diverges near City Road.

This does seem to be a curvaceous route, with the shortest route to Stoke station (plus Hanley Town Centre) from Leek being via road.

Being as parts of the formation has been lost in some places, could the bus link be added into the railway ticketing system?

https://www.railmaponline.com/UKIEMap.php is better than using normal google maps because the the overlay options for current and historical lines. I prefer the open street base map but you can use google maps and satellite view.

As other members have pointed out the track from the WCML to the outskirts of Leek is intact but not been used since the late 1980s. Brand new track and signalling would be required but the only concession to development would be a new Leek Station about 200 metres south of the original.

Legally what would be required to introduce a Stoke to Endon service? That section is NR owned and has track. Would any development consents be needed apart from for the stations?

 

[Nottingham59]

That section is NR owned and has track. Would any development consents be needed apart from for the stations?

There's bound to be all sorts of problems, bring infrastructure up to modern standards. For instance, I doubt if ORR would permit the reinstatement of the level crossing at Endon.

 

[Chester1]

There's bound to be all sorts of problems, bring infrastructure up to modern standards. For instance, I doubt if ORR would permit the reinstatement of the level crossing at Endon.

Someone posted earlier in the thread that Endon to Lee Brook is owned by Moorlands & City. The level crossing is to the east of the station therefore out of the scope of my question. I don't think Stoke to Endon would be commercially viable but I am curious as to whether development consents etc would be required to reopen the section owned by Network Rail. There is a public road crossing next to Birches Head Academy which is the only one on the Network Rail owned section. Do grandfather rights apply? What is the legal status of the line? Is it legally still a railway despite the tracks and crossing not having seen a train since 1988?

 

[Nottingham59]

The level crossing is to the east of the station therefore out of the scope of my question

Well then, I doubt if ORR would permit the reinstatement of the level crossing next to the school. I don't think grandfather rights persist once a line is closed.

Perhaps it would make more sense to reopen that line as a tram line with track brakes on the vehicles, where it would be possible to make a safety case for reopening level crossings.

 

[Chester1]

Well then, I doubt if ORR would permit the reinstatement of the level crossing next to the school. I don't think grandfather rights persist once a line is closed.

Perhaps it would make more sense to reopen that line as a tram line with track brakes on the vehicles, where it would be possible to make a safety case for reopening level crossings.

Was the line legally closed? The stations were closed in the 60s with freight traffic only until 1988. Stoke to Endon remains under Network Rail ownership.

It appears that there are only two level crossings between Stoke and Leek that are for public roads replacing both with bridges should not be a deal breaker if it is assessed there would be sufficient traffic. Most proposed reopenings have significant obstacles.

I don't think the proposed reopening will be successful, I am trying to identify when mothballed lines lose their derogations from modern regulations. For instance I doubt there would be a legal obstacle to running passenger trains between Margam and Tondu (the plan when the mainline was due to be electrified). I don't think it has seen a train since 2016.

 

[lil Bear]

To answer all the questions in order asked;

1. There hasn't even been a feasibility study tendered for, let alone completed so it's far too early to start guessing who will operate any regular services from Stoke.
2. The line was successful in the "Restore Your Railway" scheme.
3. Only the section from Leek station to Leek Brook Junction has been removed (0.5 miles ish).
4. All rails remain in place between Stoke station and Leek Brook Junction, due to its mothballed status as a Strategic Freight Site (#7 iirc).
5. Former Leek station is now a Morrisons. JCB have extended/obliterated the line South of Denstone plus there's a couple of new houses.
6. Method of interchange at Stoke, see answer 1.
7. Unbelievable amount of talks going on behind the scenes with various bodies inc NR. Though don't get the "nightmare of operations" when there is none...
8. Don't write this one off! There is an unbelievable amount going for this re-opening, in the grand scheme of things it isn't the hardest one to achieve!
9. Moorlands & City Rlys did originally launch to re-open the quarry and Leek, with long-term aspirations to re-open to Alton Towers. They are now no longer involved following CVR purchasing the lease for Cauldon Branch.
10. The decision to lift the rails was nothing to do with long-term viability, and will not prevent future re-openings. CVR retain full ownership for both Cauldon and Moneystone sections, and do plan to restore services when resources allow.
11. Sadly there is no rail connection into Hanley, and little future prospect of such. Shame the Loop Line has been massacred so...
12. Last freight was 1988. Last passenger train was BLS specials in 1994. Last through engineering train was 2001 though CVR have operated inspection trains as requested more recently.
13. CVR have cleared a site for a new Leek station within the Barnfields estate.
14. Legally, updated Level Crossing orders required for Birches Head and Endon. No big deal for NR, should the need for such come to pass.
15. MCR have never owned any part of the Stoke to Leek Brook line. Neither has CVR.
16. The line has never been closed, it is mothballed as per answer 4.
17. A tram line makes no sense to anyone who understands the locality and would be more expensive - where are you going to put a new maintenance depot for example? Plus the line must retain access for the quarry at all times for NR traffic, not feasible if converted to metro style system.
18. When a line is mothballed it retains all its Parliamentary Acts which allow re-introduction of traffic at any time. Rights of Way / village green status etc can only be claimed if access is lawful, and as trespass on railway property is Criminal Activity such cannot be lawful and mothballed lines fall outside the remit of such applications which have attempted to be used to claim closure. Leaving the rails in situ generally covers railway owners, as it gives a visual indication that the land is railway - there is a formal wording of this but I haven't got it to hand.

Quick Summary of the lines concerned giving the true status:

• Stoke to Milton Jcn (SCQ1) and Milton Jcn to Leek Brook Jcn (SCQ2) is owned by Network Rail and still connected just South of Stoke station. 3.5 miles from LBJ to Endon was cleared for assessment for restricted operations under Moorlands & City Rlys, but no public operations came to fruition.
• CVR have taken on the lease from MCR for Leek Brook to Cauldon Quarry (SCQ3) that includes the whole site of Leek Brook Junction, and a second lease from the council for the section from LBJ North to just South of Leek within the Barnfields estate where a new station is to be built. Work commenced earlier this year, and the trackbed has been cleared to allow the final groundworks to be completed prior to tracklaying.
• Leek Brook to Ipstones forms part of the CVR's core operations, with 2x trains per day utilising this line when operating (3x trains for summer Saturdays in 2022).
• Ipstones to Cauldon was lifted by MCR prior to CVR obtaining the lease, not helped by an embankment slip just short of Cauldon Exchange Sidings. However with CVR now owning the lease once resources allow it is planned to re-open this 4 mile section
• Leek Brook to Froghall in regular use.
• Froghall to Moneystone Sidings lifted due to high level of vandalism, and value used as part of purchase of Cauldon lease. CVR retain ownership of the 2.5 miles of trackbed to Moneystone, and plans have been submitted to convert the former quarry into an outdoor holiday pursuits village. This gives potential for CVR to assist with a "green" transport corridor.

 

[The Planner]

Be very careful how you term "successful" in the restoring your railway scheme of things. As for the rails, they will be scrap.