Public Station Pianos.

[43066]

I completely disagree with that. The vast majority of the time, they are used with no issue, and overall make stations a much more positive place. It would be an overreaction to remove them, just because some miserable security staff don’t like them.

It seems most of the situations that this Brendan gets himself in are caused by security or police getting overzealous. Brendan may not help himself in some situations, but decent security and police would deal with that in a more positive way rather than exacerbating a situation and generating negative publicity.

You might disagree personally, but it’s a view that NR would be perfectly entitled to take, as only a tiny minority of passengers will even be aware that that pianos exist, and the stations’ primary function is not to act as a concert venue for attention seeking YouTubers who are deliberately provoking arguments with staff in order to generate content. The “miserable” (are they?) staff in the videos, many of whom are low paid agency security staff, are only doing their jobs, and seem to be engaging with him perfectly politely, only to be referred to as “goons” in the video titles.

There is a parallel here with steam rail tours being under threat, if they interfere too much with the normal operation of the railway, due to the actions of a small minority of enthusiasts. If the pianos are removed it’ll be because people like Brendan have spoilt things for everyone else.

 

[357]

You might disagree personally, but it’s a view that NR would be perfectly entitled to take, as only a tiny minority of passengers will even be aware that that pianos exist, and the stations’ primary function is not to act as a concert venue for attention seeking YouTubers who are deliberately provoking arguments with staff in order to generate content. The staff in most of the videos, many of whom are low paid agency security staff, are only doing their jobs, and seem to be engaging with him perfectly politely, only to be referred to as “goons” in the video titles.

There is a parallel here with steam rail tours being under threat, if they interfere too much with the normal operation of the railway, due to the actions of a small minority of enthusiasts. If the pianos are removed it’ll be because people like Brendan have spoilt things for everyone else.

A good sound system playing piano music would make the ambiance identical to 90% of people who are simply using a train station as a train station.

It's nice to hear music when walking through the station but I can only see problems like this getting worse - in the same way Auditing Britain now has many copy cat channels

 

[alex397]

You might disagree personally, but it’s a view that NR would be perfectly entitled to take, as only a tiny minority of passengers will even be aware that that pianos exist, and the stations’ primary function is not to act as a concert venue for attention seeking YouTubers who are deliberately provoking arguments with staff in order to generate content.

A tiny minority? Most people would be able to see and hear the pianos being played when going through St Pancras Station. And most people, apart from killjoys, appear to enjoy it too.

Like I said above, the vast majority of times the pianos are used by non-YouTubers and the pianos have a great positive contribution to the stations. While Brendan can perhaps be antagonising, the security or police have are clearly exacerbating the situation themselves in the videos I’ve seen.

The staff in most of the videos, many of whom are low paid agency security staff, are only doing their jobs, and seem to be engaging with him perfectly politely, only to be referred to as “goons” in the video titles.

You must have watched a different video to the one I quoted then.

A good sound system playing piano music would make the ambiance identical to 90% of people who are simply using a train station as a train station.

Pre-recorded music through speakers is hardly the same, and it would often be interrupted by NR’s frequent and irritating security messages.

 

[RJ]

Work has been a much more peaceful place since they got rid of the piano I wonder if they're put there to stop people loitering as having to listen to it being played / abused for extended periods is a form of punishment really.

 

[43066]

A good sound system playing piano music would make the ambiance identical to 90% of people who are simply using a train station as a train station.

It's nice to hear music when walking through the station but I can only see problems like this getting worse - in the same way Auditing Britain now has many copy cat channels

Totally agree.

Like I said above, the vast majority of times the pianos are used by non-YouTubers and the pianos have a great positive contribution to the stations. While Brendan can perhaps be antagonising, the security or police have are clearly exacerbating the situation themselves in the videos I’ve seen.

The great majority of the time I pass the St Pancras piano it isn’t being used at all, or is being played incredibly badly. Perhaps the solution is to ban this particular disruptive individual.

You must have watched a different video to the one I quoted then.

I’ve watched several of the videos in question. He never seems interested in giving the staff a right of reply, or asking them why they’re doing what they’re doing, because that would go against his “goons trying to ban the music” sensationalism.

Work has been a much more peaceful place ever since they got rid of the piano I wonder if they're put there to stop people loitering as having to listen to it being played / abused for extended periods is a form of punishment really.

Clearly Brendan knows his way around a keyboard, but some of the people who play these pianos really should take some lessons!

 

[jon0844]

Keep the piano, but make anyone filming for commercial reasons (that includes monetised videos on YouTube) get the necessary permissions, and place suitable notifications around the area to warn people they may be filmed - which will also include details on how to be removed (again, for commercial video recorded within private property, albeit with public access).

Sadly I expect the actual result is going to be to remote the piano, and then we'll see a big video on that before he goes to find something else.

 

[Taunton]

Little Miss Taunton loves playing them

 

[alex397]

The great majority of the time I pass the St Pancras piano it isn’t being used at all, or is being played incredibly badly. Perhaps the solution is to ban this particular disruptive individual.

Maybe we go to different stations called St Pancras. Most of the time I see them in use, and mostly being used by people who know how to play a piano. It’s cheered me up on various occasions.

Even if people are playing badly, it’s good to see. If security had their way, people wouldn’t be allowed to breathe and they’d just increase the already incessant security messages.

The pianos give the station soul. I understand not everyone appreciates that though.

 

[43066]

Maybe we go to different stations called St Pancras. Most of the time I see them in use, and mostly being used by people who know how to play a piano. It’s cheered me up on various occasions.

If so, the confusion is all yours, I’m afraid. I’d venture that I spend rather more time hanging around the St Pancras being discussed here than most. I also sign part of the railway route into the station, so rest assured I’m 100% familiar with the location .

Even if people are playing badly, it’s good to see. If security had their way, people wouldn’t be allowed to breathe and they’d just increase the already incessant security messages.

You may think it’s good to see people playing badly, others will take a different view. I’d prefer silence, personally.

The bolded statement is hyperbolic and impossible to take seriously. Perhaps you should walk a mile in their shoes, and try dealing with what they have to put up with. Do these low paid staff really deserve insults and derision online from far better paid YouTubers?

If you don’t like a security presence, by all means avoid large London terminals.

 

[ian1944]

Peripherally, Kavanagh sometimes plays with Terry Miles, who sometimes plays alone there and also has a series on tracking down pubs with pianos, often disused. Terry is a much more congenial character who, as far as I've seen, neither seeks nor finds confrontation. He is a wonderful natural pianists who can, and does sing, and the comments on his videos are overwhelmingly positive, appreciative and often descriptive of just how moving his performance has been (of the type, "This was my Dad's favourite song and we played it at his funeral").

 

[alex397]

You may think it’s good to see people playing badly, others will take a different view. I’d prefer silence, personally.

How incredibly soulless and boring that would be. There wouldn’t be silence anyway, just the highly irritating security messages.

The bolded statement is hyperbolic and impossible to take seriously. Perhaps you should walk a mile in their shoes, and try dealing with what they have to put up with. Do these low paid staff really deserve insults and derision online from far better paid YouTubers?

Clearly it was an exaggerated comment. I’m well aware of what security staff put up with. I’m sure the majority are decent people. But the job can attract people that enjoy being heavy handed or those who don’t appreciate discretion or context.

If you don’t like a security presence, by all means avoid large London terminals.

Not what I was saying at all.

If you don’t like the pianos, you can always walk a different way. There’s plenty of exits.

 

[MTR380A]

This matter has stirred up a lot of discussions amongst the Hongkongers community, and is still evolving due to possible involvement of the Chinese Communist Party. I'll come back to write more when I've time.

 

[Trackman]

He's really milking it now, reckons it will go to court; asking for legal advice.
I've had enough of it all now. Really. Can't people see what is really going on?

 

[jon0844]

Content creators need to push the boundaries and create controversy to get subs, views and revenue. It isn't a recent phenomenon, as there's a lot of competition out there and the algorithm requires new content and constant growth to continue being promoted.

Plenty of creators, albeit more likely on TikTok, have gone to jail for pushing the boundaries too far - and there have already been murder cases to prove the 'one day someone is going to get killed' suggestion wasn't hyperbole.

 

[trebor79]

Plenty of creators, albeit more likely on TikTok, have gone to jail for pushing the boundaries too far - and there have already been murder cases to prove the 'one day someone is going to get killed' suggestion wasn't hyperbole.

There was the idiot in America that filmed himself jumping from a place after apparent "engine failure". Just happened to be wearing a parachute, just happened to have it festive with gopris and another on a selfie stick. Retrieved and destroyed the wreckage before reporting it and filmed himself deliberately ignoring the vast flat areas of countryside to safely land on.
They threw the book at him, and rightly so!

 

[D7666]

Totally agree.


The great majority of the time I pass the St Pancras piano it isn’t being used at all, or is being played incredibly badly. Perhaps the solution is to ban this particular disruptive individual.

totally agree /2

either not in use or agree incredibly badly or even worse someone not even attempting 'play' it just random racket

Maybe we go to different stations called St Pancras. Most of the time I see them in use, and mostly being used by people who know how to play a piano.

well I think I use the same one as 43066

all it does is irritate me

the place is noisy enough as it is without adding to it

i wouldn't even want a top notch concert pianist there, nor other instrument, the place needs less noise not more, no matter how it is generated

on the 1 or 2 occasions someone can play it, there is a crowd, and that is obstructing free passenger flow right where you don't want obstruction

applies to all stations not just STP

 

[yorkie]

Can't people see what is really going on?

Quite a few people have said what's really going on:

Brendan Kaveanagh, a professional pianist was live streaming at Elton John’s piano at St. Pancras Station, in London. when he was confronted by a group of Communist Chinese,who were all smiles and friendly, until Chinese Spy Christine Lee turns up, and lays down the comunist dictate. Watch the attitude change into one of confrontation;as they then start to dictate what Brandan could and couldn’t film, in a free country.

Christine Lee Confirmed, London was a spy operation
0:21 ...what's happening today is actually very
0:23 interesting because I think this is
0:26 perhaps the most important not about her
0:28 personally but what's behind her so it's
0:31 all but confirmed that um the so
0:35 remember this lady here right Christine
0:37 Lee she was named by the MI5 back in
0:41 2022 as an agent of influence....

https://twitter.com/Byron_Wan/status/1752328338948194430

Pro-China foreign influencer / vlogger (that is, foreign wumao 洋五毛) Luke Johnston (鹿可), a British PhD student at the School of Mathematical Sciences, Shanghai Jiaotong University, has done an interview with Mengying Liu, and the video was uploaded to 鹿可’s YouTube channel earlier today…

With the help of 鹿可’s leading questions, Liu changed her narrative by skipping “image rights”, “don’t touch her” and “China flag ” and presenting herself and the group as victims — nice and friendly Chinese with no ties to the CCP — and Dr K as the evil white male villain. The “interview” is geared towards a Western audience.

Was it China’s propaganda apparatus working behind this arrangement?

Were China's 'Wolf Warriors' Behind a Videotaped 'Piano Incident' in London? | Opinion

The Jan. 19 incident reflects patterns of behavior by members of China’s United Front Work Department overseas

themessenger.com

...The incident also reflects patterns of behavior by members of the CCP’s United Front Work Department overseas. The agency, responsible for influence operations, skillfully exploits race for strategic advantage. Any voices or actions unfavorable to China are labeled not as “anti-comunist” or things done in defense of the rights of the Chinese people, but as racial discrimination, in an attempt to silence them. This accusation can evoke sympathy and a protective instinct from many in the general public — since most people who hold universal values would say they oppose racism — and shift attention away from any accountability. We saw this in the reaction of the U.K. police officer who whispered to Kavanagh, “You can’t do that,” when he appeared to be simply standing up for himself. .....

Another Chinese Spy IDENTIFIED Following Piano Incident

0:23 ...we have an update because we've also
0:25 identified an actual Chinese Communist
0:28 Party agent and spy right there in the
0:31 background as you can see towards the
0:32 end yes we're talking about that woman
0:34 that you can see can barely see at at
0:36 the end standing next to the boyfriend
0:38 of one of the girls who was in the video
0:41 who we identified we can now confirm
0:43 that that woman is in fact Christin Lee
0:47 who was actually exposed a while ago and
0:49 were reported on 2cv as an actual CCP
0:54 agent operating in London she even
0:57 infiltrated the political system in the
0:59 UK ...

Unbelievably, Christine Lee is suing MI5:

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/woman-sues-britains-mi5-calling-her-chinese-agent-2023-07-11/

LONDON, July 11 (Reuters) - A woman branded a Chinese agent by Britain's domestic intelligence service MI5 is suing the agency in a bid to clear her name, with her lawyers on Tuesday trying to compel MI5 to disclose why it warned lawmakers about her.

From friends to foe, the real reason why these Chinese little pinks were so triggered. 0:00 Intro 1:01 The prequel: Jim and his Japanese TV crew 3:42 Friendly at first 5:03 It begins 6:35 Things escalate 7:06 Things escalate again 7:58 Adelina made it worse 9:19 All about the flag 13:37 Wolf warrior diplomacy 14:26 Communist or not, simple question

This story is getting a lot of attention, and due to my unique understanding of both cultures - being from the US but spending a decade in Mainland China - I felt inclined to share my thoughts and insights on the drama between British pianist, Brendan Kavanagh and the group of highly patriotic Chinese who claimed to be working for Chinese State TV. The run in took place at St Pancras Station in London...

 

[alex397]

all it does is irritate me

if you are one of the minority that doesn’t appreciate it, it’s perfectly easy to avoid it. If travelling from the northern to the southern part of the station, you can exit the station and walk along Midland Road or Pancras Road.

 

[D7666]

if you are one of the minority that doesn’t appreciate it, it’s perfectly easy to avoid it. If travelling from the northern to the southern part of the station, you can exit the station and walk along Midland Road or Pancras Road

why should i take such a detour ?

can you cite actual statistics about who is and is not a minority ?

just because I disagree with you does not make me a minority of the thousands who pass there and tolerate but actually dislike the racket

and you conveniently miss my point about total noise and not adding to it

 

[alex397]

He's really milking it now, reckons it will go to court; asking for legal advice.
I've had enough of it all now. Really. Can't people see what is really going on?

He may be milking it, but it could easily have been dealt with ages ago if the group were more understanding and just let it go. It’s clearly the Chinese group who have provoked things a lot further than it needed to be.

 

[43066]

Quite a few people have said what's really going on:

https://twitter.com/Byron_Wan/status/1752328338948194430

Were China's 'Wolf Warriors' Behind a Videotaped 'Piano Incident' in London? | Opinion

The Jan. 19 incident reflects patterns of behavior by members of China’s United Front Work Department overseas

themessenger.com

Another Chinese Spy IDENTIFIED Following Piano Incident

Unbelievably, Christine Lee is suing MI5:

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/woman-sues-britains-mi5-calling-her-chinese-agent-2023-07-11/

The points raised above about these individuals are all perfectly valid, and I totally disagree with the intervention of the police officer against the pianist, as noted above, albeit it’s a little odd to imagine that the Chinese “spies” we need to worry about will be standing on St Pancras concourse, waving red flags, and drawing attention to themselves!

I’m just not sure stations are the correct forum for these kinds of discussions, nor that the pianos can be seen as a good thing if they’re fomenting high profile political incidents.

if you are one of the minority that doesn’t appreciate it, it’s perfectly easy to avoid it. If travelling from the northern to the southern part of the station, you can exit the station and walk along Midland Road or Pancras Road.

Is there any evidence that the majority of passengers “appreciate” the pianos? I’d suggest the vast majority aren’t aware of them at all. Most passengers will simply want to take the most direct route possible, without wanting to detour. The presence of a badly played piano will make little difference, much like buskers on the tube - many of us simply use noise cancelling headphones!

You do realise only a tiny percentage of stations have pianos at all?

 

[alex397]

why should i take such a detour ?

can you cite actual statistics about who is and is not a minority ?

just because I disagree with you does not make me a minority of the thousands who pass there and tolerate but actually dislike the racket

and you conveniently miss my point about total noise and not adding to it

Why should you take a detour? Because it’s something that irritates you. Rather than force all pianos to be removed to please people who find them irritating, you should either just deal with it or avoid it. And it can be easily avoided. Taking your detour won’t take much more time either.

It’s good to see people enjoying the pianos or stopping to watch and listen.
There are very little joys in life, and hearing the pianos just for a minute or two can make a big difference to someone’s otherwise deeply stressful day.

Buskers, station pianos, public art. These are all just little free things which make an otherwise grey bland society a bit brighter.

. I’m just not sure stations are the correct forum for these kinds of discussions, nor that the pianos can be seen as a good thing if they’re fomenting high profile political incidents!

And how common are these high profile political incidents? It would be a complete overreaction to remove pianos everywhere just because of this incident. It would be like communist China!

You do realise only a tiny percentage of stations have pianos at all?

Exactly. So what’s the issue with just a few stations having these pianos then?

 

[43066]

And how common are these high profile political incidents? It would be a complete overreaction to remove pianos everywhere just because of this incident. It would be like communist China!

It would be a reasonable step to take because, as noted above, they're being misused by YouTubers, becoming a distraction to staff, and a source of argument/disagreement. They also add little-to-nothing to the average passenger’s journey (I note you’ve failed to provide evidence to back up your earlier assertion that the majority of station users “appreciate” them).

On balance, I’d prefer they were left in place, but I could well understand why Network Rail may take the step of removing them if these incidents of misuse continue, and ultimately it’s their decision to make.

I won’t say any more on the subject as we’re at risk of going round in circles.

 

[alex397]

I note you’ve failed to provide evidence to back up your earlier assertion that the majority of station users “appreciate” them.

I doubt there’s been a study on the subject. If they were unpopular there would be petitions against them and groups campaigning against them, as far as I know. Which suggests that they arn’t a major annoyance for most people, so therefore would be ridiculous to remove them.
The other evidence is anecdotal, such as what I’ve described above, with people noticeably enjoying it - that’s a rare thing to see in grumpy London.

.

I won’t say any more on the subject as we’re at risk of going round in circles.

I think we’ve gone past the ‘at risk’ stage.

 

[jon0844]

if you are one of the minority that doesn’t appreciate it, it’s perfectly easy to avoid it. If travelling from the northern to the southern part of the station, you can exit the station and walk along Midland Road or Pancras Road.

Are you seriously suggesting people leave a station and walk around to avoid a piano and the potential of a bust-up between a pianist YouTuber and whoever else wants to get famous for appearing? Seems like these incidents will increase now someone wanting attention can turn up and get it with ease.

If this sort of thing is going to happen in the future, get rid of the damn thing, or put the piano outside.

It's a nice feature and I've walked by many a time with someone playing it well and having fun (and therefore giving enjoyment to others), and even young children not playing it well but still raising a smile, but it isn't essential to the day-to-day operation of a railway station (or even a shopping mall with platforms).

 

[sprunt]

If you want peace and quiet, I'd suggest avoiding major rail terminals entirely...

 

[alex397]

Are you seriously suggesting people leave a station and walk around to avoid a piano and the potential of a bust-up between a pianist YouTuber and whoever else wants to get famous for appearing? Seems like these incidents will increase now someone wanting attention can turn up and get it with ease.

No, I’m suggesting that people that find the pianos really irritating should walk another way if they don’t want to hear it. It’s quite easy.
Bust-ups with YouTubers are arn’t exactly common, are they? I’ve never seen it before. A few isolated incidents have occurred maybe, but that’s hardly a reason to change things. That would be a completely silly reaction.

 

[infobleep]

why should i take such a detour ?

can you cite actual statistics about who is and is not a minority ?

just because I disagree with you does not make me a minority of the thousands who pass there and tolerate but actually dislike the racket

and you conveniently miss my point about total noise and not adding to it

What one needs is a survey to see who likes it and who doesn't.

What all we know it might turn out to be 48% vs 52%. I'm not saying which percentage would be for or against.

Aa for people playing them. Doesn't bother me. If I have time I will stop but if I doubt I will rush on as I'm not interested in my train than how good or bad someone is.