Purple aspect on SR Motormen's handlamps.

[Ashley Hill]

Thanks for your replies everyone. The short wrong direction movement seems the most plausible unless anyone else knows different.

 

[The Puddock]

Having had a chance to do a bit of reading, the "Air Raid Warning Purple" was given when bombers were expected imminently and is described as a 'lights' warning. The warning was passed to train drivers and guards by signalmen (though, frustratingly, my source doesn't state how the purple warning was passed to them) and involved "alterations to the engine headlights" as well as closing the covers around the engine cab and tender. The full instructions are given in an air raid precautions book which I don't have a copy of. It certainly doesn't seem to be beyond the realms of possibility that a purple light was used in connection with this, although I could well be barking up the wrong tree and it was in fact intended for wrong direction movements.

 

[Rescars]

Having had a chance to do a bit of reading, the "Air Raid Warning Purple" was given when bombers were expected imminently and is described as a 'lights' warning. The warning was passed to train drivers and guards by signalmen (though, frustratingly, my source doesn't state how the purple warning was passed to them) and involved "alterations to the engine headlights" as well as closing the covers around the engine cab and tender. The full instructions are given in an air raid precautions book which I don't have a copy of. It certainly doesn't seem to be beyond the realms of possibility that a purple light was used in connection with this, although I could well be barking up the wrong tree and it was in fact intended for wrong direction movements.

This is mere idle speculation, but it is possible the purple light had both uses. Seeing that the lamp illustrated originates from the LSWR, presumably the purple lamp dates from c1917 when electrification started, shortly before the end of WW1. Perhaps the original use of the purple lamp for wrong line working disappeared at some point following the amalgamation, but the purple lenses were still around and readily available when an air raid precautionary signal was needed (in a hurry) during WW2. Oh to find a copy of those special instructions for working during air raids.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I’m not sure of the lamp being used for air raid warnings. They were only issued to motormen so if it was the case surely they would be issued to all drivers.

 

[Gloster]

Why would a motorman need one? Signalmen and, possibly, some other staff would need a purple shade to pass on the air-raid warning to passing traincrew, but they would rarely have the time to acknowledge with a lamp. That said, I would think it was more likely that trains were stopped by the signals, particularly as, I presume, they usually didn’t run at full line-speed.

 

[Dr Hoo]

For what it's worth I've just looked out my copy of War on the Line, the official Southern Railway record of what went on in WW2 by Bernard Darwin. It was commissioned by the chairman, Eric Gore Browne, in 1946.

It is more of a readable collection of incidents and aspects of the Southern Railway's work rather than an exhaustive technical history but it doesn't seem to mention 'lamps' in any colour or ownership.

There are, of course, plenty of other books about the Southern and about air raid precautions during the War.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Why would a motorman need one?

I don’t know which is the gist of the thread. But I’m pretty sure it has nothing to do with air raid warnings.
Reading books about wartime footplate experiences it is often mentioned that trains were stopping and cautioned when air raids were on and the driver told what category they were,air raid red or yellow for example.

 

[randyrippley]

This document relates to a "purple warning" air raid status though makes no mention of purple lights. "Purple" would seem to simply be an operating status code word, akin to more modern "bikini" security status definitions.
No mention of actual purple lights


I found it at

Air Raid Message "Purple" Lights Warning

Interesting document regarding the PURPLE air raid message.

www.ww2civildefence.co.uk

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This site mentions purple displays on Great Eastern headlamps

Headcodes Part 1

www.gersociety.org.uk

Lamps and Discs: 1884 onwards​

In about 1884 the GER decided that the paraphernalia connected with headcode display needed modernisation, and changed to conventional flat spike lamp-irons and directly-mounted lamps and discs in four positions; on top of the smokebox, and on the bufferbeam over each buffer and the coupling. Fortunately, the company chose wisely, for this became the standard system throughout Britain (except for the Great Western Railway, which always seemed to do things differently!). At the time, the British railway companies were still using a number of different methods of mounting lamps and discs on locomotives.

The headlamp was re-designed, being of rectangular shape with a single lens. Pockets on either side held the glass slides which could be inserted between the flame and lens to show the various lamp colours.

The discs were of similar size and pattern as before, but had a pocket for the lamp-iron riveted to one side, and a wire handle at the top. Each locomotive was issued with four discs: all had a white face, the reverse sides of three of them being green with a white rim, whilst the remaining disc was red with a white rim on the reverse. Initially, the number of the locomotive to which they belonged was painted on each disc (and probably on each lamp), but this was soon discontinued.

For a brief period in the 1890s a blue disc with white rim was also in use. At around the same time, locomotives working over the GN&GE Joint Line were fitted with an additional lamp-iron on the chimney, and this was also short lived.

After the 1923 Grouping, the new LNER took exception to the use of green and red lights for headcode displays. In GE practice, a red headlamp was only carried when passing over single lines, and this was abolished by the LNER. The green lamp and disc was replaced by what was described officially as 'violet'. In the lamps this was achieved by means of a deep ultramarine blue glass slide that gave a purple light when placed in front of a paraffin flame. The colour used on the discs was actually a purple-lake colour - more brown than purple.

From the LNER period onwards the headlamps were painted white instead of vermilion.

From the mid-1930s, the GER lamps and discs were replaced by standard LNER patterns. The lamps were cylindrical, initially with a hooded lens, although this was later discarded. Instead of separate glass slides for the coloured lights, these were permanently mounted in a rotating sleeve inside the lamp, being brought into play by turning the top of the lamp. The discs were plain sheet steel with a pressed socket and hand-hole at the top.

.......................................................................................................................................................................................

This five page pdf file discusses early forms of coloured headlamps.
On page three it mentions and shows usage of purple lamps on the Victoria-Brighton "via Quarry" line

https://sremg.org.uk/RlyMag/FormHeadCodeComps.pdf

Sorry I can't copy text out of the document

.....................................................................................................................................................................................

from https://sremg.org.uk/headcodes/sheadcodes/05.html
showing LSWR headcodes

Special Trains (except Nos. 42-50 above) will carry a White Round Disc with Black Centre (Purple Light at Night) over Near Side Buffer.

and

LB&SCR Steam Locomotive Headcodes

showing foreign trains working over the LB&SCR

METROPOLITAN TRAINS

New Cross to Hammersmith One White Light near side end of Buffer Beam, and one Purple Light off side end of Buffer Beam and one White Light above on off side

New Cross to Shoreditch Two Purple Lights, one each end of Buffer Beam

To New Cross One Purple Light near side end of Buffer Beam, one White Light off side end of Buffer Beam, and one White Light in the centre above them

 

[Ashley Hill]

@randyrippley Interesting headlamp codes especially the use of blue and purple by other pre-grouping companies. These handlamps though are specifically LSWR or early SR and issued to motormen.

 

[randyrippley]

@randyrippley Interesting headlamp codes especially the use of blue and purple by other pre-grouping companies. These handlamps though are specifically LSWR or early SR and issued to motormen.

The LSWR use is documented in this link from above https://sremg.org.uk/headcodes/sheadcodes/05.html

However I think something is being misunderstood. Did this thread originate with this picture or something like it?
https://www.gwra.co.uk/auctions/southern-railway-4-aspect-motorman-s-handlamp-stam-2023nov-0397.html&image=2

Yes there it's described as a motorman's lamp, but surely that's only because the driver it was allocated to held the rank of motorman and the lamp simply carries his name and rank? He was just another driver who also drove electrics.
Surely what it is, is a drivers lamp of an old pattern that has been allocated for him to use as a driver, not specifically as a motorman. The main body of the lamp is stamped SR, but the lens holder may well be older. There are several otherwise identical lamps on that auction site showing different combinations of lenses. The one listed in the auction link above is labeled "C HEASMAN MOTORMAN PORTSMOUTH", but electrics only began running to Portsmouth in 1937: to my eye that's a much older lamp design. And 1937 is hardly "early SR"
I think it's just an old lamp which just happens to have the extra lens, and was randomly reallocated to him to use.
Just because one was allocated to a motorman, doesn't make all similar ones a motorman's lamp. Any more than allocating a drinking cup to a motorman would make all similar cups a motorman's cup.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I’ve seen many of them over the years and they have always been described as Motormen’s handlamps. This from the Talisman Auction site :-
LSWR 4 aspect Motorman’s Handlamp featuring the unique purple glass aspect used for limited line movement in the wrong direction. The body is stamped “L&SWR 930”. Complete with LSWR vessel & reflector, SR burner and all glasses. Restored.
This is probably the site that Deepgreen was referring to up thread.

 

[randyrippley]

I strongly suspect that's one of those incorrect "facts" that someone once wrongly suggested and it's been repeated ever since.
I've shown above that there was a legitimate though limited use of purple headlamps, but no mention of use on EMUs.

 

[Rescars]

Here's a wild card thought. Are we certain that the references to "motormen" apply to electric traction? IIRC the LSWR was a bit of a leader when it came to steam railmotors (and loaned one to the GWR for them to try out). Were the staff of railmotors known as "motormen" I wonder? If so this would perhaps date the use of these handlamps rather earlier than the electric era, and closer to the time when purple lights were more commonplace for use in headcodes etc. Does anyone have any information which would either prove or disprove this idea?

 

[Rescars]

If Rescars is correct, it would mean that these handlamps could potentially predate the electric era and date back to the time when purple lights were more commonly used in headcodes. This would certainly align with Ashley Hill's observation that the lamp design seems older than the 1937 introduction of electrics to Portsmouth.

The problem is that Rescars doesn't know if he's correct or not!

Tantalisingly, Wikipedia tells that Drummond built the first two K11 class railmotors in 1902 for use on the Fratton - Southsea line. Southsea is part of Portsmouth. Is there any way of finding out if Mr Heasman worked on the footplate for the LSWR? Labelling a lamp with the name of its designated user seems entirely in keeping with style of the Edwardian era when staff were allocated to specific locomotives, rather than the common user approach adopted post amalgamation. In the prevailing spirit of personal accountability c1900, I bet Mr Heasman would have faced a financial penalty if he broke one of the glasses in his lamp!

 

[Richard Scott]

The purple headlamp substitution must be a possibility. From my very limited knowledge of GWR handlamps, the green light was created by the yellow light from the lamp shining through blue glass. Does the colour which shows through the purple glass when the lamp is lit actually show as purple?

Are you sure? Blue glass only transmits blue light, yellow is a mixture of red and green light, so you would see nothing as no light transmitted.

 

[John Webb]

......Blue glass only transmits blue light, yellow is a mixture of red and green light, so you would see nothing as no light transmitted.

A yellow flame contains a wide range of wavelengths, and provided the blue filter is not a dark or deep blue, the yellow light shining through is changed to a green colour - we have a number of working signal and hand-lamps at the preserved St Albans South signal box which demonstrate this. The colour of the blue filter is around 'Peacock Blue' in stage lighting terms. The combination of yellow flame and blue filter gives a brighter green aspect than using a green filter as this subtracts more of the wavelengths.

 

[Ashley Hill]

The blue glass in the example shown upthread is significantly darker than any of the handlamps I own.

 

[randyrippley]

Here's a wild card thought. Are we certain that the references to "motormen" apply to electric traction? IIRC the LSWR was a bit of a leader when it came to steam railmotors (and loaned one to the GWR for them to try out). Were the staff of railmotors known as "motormen" I wonder? If so this would perhaps date the use of these handlamps rather earlier than the electric era, and closer to the time when purple lights were more commonplace for use in headcodes etc. Does anyone have any information which would either prove or disprove this idea?

I think this trade union history page makes it clear that "motormen" were EMU drivers on a different progression path than steam drivers. Some of the detail appears to be missing, but there's enough info there to make the case.

IGNITING THE FLAME OF UNITY

With the electrification of the Brighton Division of the Southern Railway, being brought to a
halt owing to the out break of the Seconds World War. The following Motorman’s depot were established to operated over the various routes that had been electrified.
All of the Motorman’s vacancies would be filled by other Motormen who had transferred to
the new depot, redundant steam drivers or by “Dual link" drivers at the locomotive shed that
the Motorman depot was grouped to. Some locomotive shed had more than one Motormen depots within its group. The exception to this was being Peckham Rye depot as these positions were filled mainly traffic grades or firemen from New Cross.
The Brighton section had the most Motorman depots out of the three sections of the Southern Railway. Some of these depot were very small some having a handful of Motorman at the depot to start up and finish the service.
Two sub pages (coastal & suburban) shows as a list of known Motorman depots, which includes when the depot opened, closed and the branch of A.S.L.E.&F. associated with these depots.
In 1961 the grade of Motorman was done away with and their depot become E.M.U.T. depots and many are still in existence.

​

 

[Rescars]

I think this trade union history page makes it clear that "motormen" were EMU drivers on a different progression path than steam drivers. Some of the detail appears to be missing, but there's enough info there to make the case.

IGNITING THE FLAME OF UNITY

Oh what a pity! But I think you are right. There is enough here to make the case.

On further digging, it transpires that a steam railmotor needed a passed fireman on the footplate to manage the controls when "he who was in charge" was operating from the cab at the other end. With a passed fireman to assist, it does seem improbable that the senior member of the crew would have been graded as anything other than as a driver.

 

[randyrippley]

Oh what a pity! But I think you are right. There is enough here to make the case.

On further digging, it transpires that a steam railmotor needed a passed fireman on the footplate to manage the controls when "he who was in charge" was operating from the cab at the other end. With a passed fireman to assist, it does seem improbable that the senior member of the crew would have been graded as anything other than as a driver.

Just found the original full version of that page which describes the struggle the motormen had to be recognised as a distinct trade.

THE BRIGHTON BRANCH OF A.S.L.E.F.

It seems a lot were redeployed from non-driving / non-fireman positions, e.g. cleaners, station staff, guards having never gone through the traditional fireman/driver progression

 

[Richard Scott]

A yellow flame contains a wide range of wavelengths, and provided the blue filter is not a dark or deep blue, the yellow light shining through is changed to a green colour - we have a number of working signal and hand-lamps at the preserved St Albans South signal box which demonstrate this. The colour of the blue filter is around 'Peacock Blue' in stage lighting terms. The combination of yellow flame and blue filter gives a brighter green aspect than using a green filter as this subtracts more of the wavelengths.

Ok, a flame, I should have realised thinking about the era we were talking about.

 

[Rescars]

Just found the original full version of that page which describes the struggle the motormen had to be recognised as a distinct trade.

THE BRIGHTON BRANCH OF A.S.L.E.F.

It seems a lot were redeployed from non-driving / non-fireman positions, e.g. cleaners, station staff, guards having never gone through the traditional fireman/driver progression

More than makes the case. Fascinating insights into some realities of the "golden age"!