Query about advance ticket with TOC & Connections

[CTSleo]

Hello. I am new to this forum.
I have an advance single ticket from Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance. I noticed that I need to take the specific XC train from Bristol to Plymouth, but there is no information about which trains I should take at Plymouth when I printed the ticket (as it only shows the information about the XC train from Bristol to Plymouth).

How do I know which train I should take?
And am I allowed to leave the station and come back to take any other trains to Penzance within the date of travel?

Thank you so much.

 

[gray1404]

You are to take the next available train to Penzance upon arrival in Plymouth. Break of journey is not permitted with an advance ticket.

 

[yorkie]

Hello. I am new to this forum.
I have an advance single ticket from Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance. I noticed that I need to take the specific XC train from Bristol to Plymouth, but there is no information about which trains I should take at Plymouth when I printed the ticket (as it only shows the information about the XC train from Bristol to Plymouth).

How do I know which train I should take?
And am I allowed to leave the station and come back to take any other trains to Penzance within the date of travel?

Thank you so much.

Refer to the itinerary you were provided, but in general this would be the next available non-reserveable service.

If the journey hasn't yet happened, we could probably figure this out for you, if you can inform us of the first train in your itinerary.

The ruled do not allow you to leave a station mid-journey on an Advance ticket; break of journey is not permitted on such tickets. However, you may use station facilities while you are awaiting your onward service.

In some cases, staff may adopt a common sense approach, particularly if the next train is not for a while and/or if there are limited facilities available within the station itself. See other threads on this subject!

 

[CTSleo]

Thank you so much for answering.

I have consulted the railway staff, and they said I have to take the next available train.

 

[Dirty_Mac]

Just a quick question about this. I've been able to use this forum's site to generate an itinerary (Berwick-upon-Tweed to Tweedbank) with quite a long wait at Edinburgh:
https://tickets-beta.railforums.co....se&adv:ob:MaxChanges=7&adv:ob:Via=7093280C360

And it seems like no matter how long I set the connection time, it always gives me the same "LNER & Connections" advance single. Since trains to Tweedbank are not reservable, can I take any train with this ticket? Otherwise, how could this ticket be valid 6 hours later?

 

[Watershed]

Just a quick question about this. I've been able to use this forum's site to generate an itinerary (Berwick-upon-Tweed to Tweedbank) with quite a long wait at Edinburgh:
https://tickets-beta.railforums.co....se&adv:ob:MaxChanges=7&adv:ob:Via=7093280C360

And it seems like no matter how long I set the connection time, it always gives me the same "LNER & Connections" advance single. Since trains to Tweedbank are not reservable, can I take any train with this ticket? Otherwise, how could this ticket be valid 6 hours later?

Journey planners can offer Advance tickets for any journey that follows a permitted route and which complies with the restrictions associated with the fare in the data feed.

There's nothing in the data feed that tells journey planners they must choose the fastest possible connection, so it's entirely legitimate for them to issue them for an itinerary with a long wait; that said, the rules may change if the industry perceives that people are trying to 'take advantage' of the current situation.

On an Advance ticket you are supposed to follow your booked itinerary exactly - or at least, as much of it as is shown on your ticket (this may omit non-reservable legs if you have a paper ticket). For non-reservable sections of the journey not shown on your ticket, you should take an "appropriate" connecting service.

So the issue is really that, if you have booked the Advance on an itinerary involving a 6 hour connection in Edinburgh, staff may doubt that you are taking an "appropriate" connecting service unless you can show the itinerary listing it as your booked train.

Hope that helps?

 

[Adam Williams]

There's nothing in the data feed that tells journey planners they must choose the fastest possible connection, so it's entirely legitimate for them to issue them for an itinerary with a long wait; that said, the rules may change if the industry perceives that people are trying to 'take advantage' of the current situation.

I would hope the industry would use their brain for 30 seconds and think about why retailers may choose to offer this functionality first, and ideally carry out an EQIA before making any changes here.

This functionality currently gets a great deal of use from people who struggle with their mobility, can't handle long periods of uninterrupted (or only briefly interrupted) travel on-board, need access to facilities that aren't available on the train etc.

 

[yorkie]

Just a quick question about this. I've been able to use this forum's site to generate an itinerary (Berwick-upon-Tweed to Tweedbank) with quite a long wait at Edinburgh:
https://tickets-beta.railforums.co....se&adv:ob:MaxChanges=7&adv:ob:Via=7093280C360

And it seems like no matter how long I set the connection time, it always gives me the same "LNER & Connections" advance single. Since trains to Tweedbank are not reservable, can I take any train with this ticket? Otherwise, how could this ticket be valid 6 hours later?

If people start doing this, then it's going to only end up with changes that are negative for passengers.

When using an Advance ticket, you should be following the supplied itinerary.

If you require some additional time, it is reasonable to request that. If people request too much, then I can see either the website (or the backend provider) reducing the functionality (which would be a shame because it would impact people who are doing so legitimately) or some sort of rule being introduced on Advance tickets and maximum connection times.

If you want to break your journey, then I would suggest you either ensure you are only selecting flexible fares for the whole journey, or alternatively if you want an Advance fare up to the point where you break your journey, then do a separate search.

 

[-Colly405-]

A new query with the same thread, if I may?

i have an Advance single from Haymarket to Bristol Parkway, marked as "Avanti West Coast and connections". It is on the 1657 HYM-BHM (arr 2106), connecting into the 2212 XC BHM-BPW. These two specific trains are on the printed seat reservation card accompanying the ticket.
My query is this - there is an XC departure from BHM at 2112 that, because it is less than the 12 minute minimum connection time there, has understandably been ignored by the booking system, hence it saying to use the XC 2212.
If my arrival at BHM is early enough to allow me to board the 2112 am I allowed to? I get that it is an Advance, but as it says 'AWC & connections', would the 2112 therefore be considered just "a connection" or do I need to wait 66 minutes for the 2212 as per the printed itinerary?

Note there is no xx42 this late, so 2142 is not an option!

Oddly the Advance in the other direction is defined as "specified XC trains & connections"!

 

[GilfachFargoed]

A new query with the same thread, if I may?

i have an Advance single from Haymarket to Bristol Parkway, marked as "Avanti West Coast and connections". It is on the 1657 HYM-BHM (arr 2106), connecting into the 2212 XC BHM-BPW. These two specific trains are on the printed seat reservation card accompanying the ticket.
My query is this - there is an XC departure from BHM at 2112 that, because it is less than the 12 minute minimum connection time there, has understandably been ignored by the booking system, hence it saying to use the XC 2212.
If my arrival at BHM is early enough to allow me to board the 2112 am I allowed to? I get that it is an Advance, but as it says 'AWC & connections', would the 2112 therefore be considered just "a connection" or do I need to wait 66 minutes for the 2212 as per the printed itinerary?

Note there is no xx42 this late, so 2142 is not an option!

Oddly the Advance in the other direction is defined as "specified XC trains & connections"!

You must travel on all reservable services on which you hold a reservation, both XC services will reservable and you will have a reservation for the 22:12, hence in the case you ticket is not valid for the 21:12 - sorry to be the bearer of suboptimal news!

 

[Watershed]

A new query with the same thread, if I may?

i have an Advance single from Haymarket to Bristol Parkway, marked as "Avanti West Coast and connections". It is on the 1657 HYM-BHM (arr 2106), connecting into the 2212 XC BHM-BPW. These two specific trains are on the printed seat reservation card accompanying the ticket.
My query is this - there is an XC departure from BHM at 2112 that, because it is less than the 12 minute minimum connection time there, has understandably been ignored by the booking system, hence it saying to use the XC 2212.
If my arrival at BHM is early enough to allow me to board the 2112 am I allowed to? I get that it is an Advance, but as it says 'AWC & connections', would the 2112 therefore be considered just "a connection" or do I need to wait 66 minutes for the 2212 as per the printed itinerary?

Note there is no xx42 this late, so 2142 is not an option!

Oddly the Advance in the other direction is defined as "specified XC trains & connections"!

When using an Advance ticket, you are required to take any trains shown on your ticket. It is only for non-reserved legs that you have some flexibility - provided your ticket does not list a train for that section of your journey. As the 22:12 service allows reservations, you will have been issued one for it, and you are therefore tied to that particular train unless there is disruption.

There is no harm in asking the Train Manager of the 21:12 before boarding whether you can take their train (they would usually be found at the rear of the train), but they would be legally entitled to refuse you - even though there is no practical reason for them to do so.

The fact that the ticket is routed "& Connections" merely means that it isn't limited to XC. You could take other operators' trains for unreserved portions of the journey or in the event of disruption. For example you could take WMT to Worcester and then GWR, or XC to Oxford and then GWR. Unlikely there is actually a connection that late at night, but you get the idea.

 

[-Colly405-]

You must travel on all reservable services on which you hold a reservation, both XC services will reservable and you will have a reservation for the 22:12, hence in the case you ticket is not valid for the 21:12 - sorry to be the bearer of suboptimal news!

Thanks I was expecting that, but hoping otherwise!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 16:49 ==

When using an Advance ticket, you are required to take any trains shown on your ticket. It is only for non-reserved legs that you have some flexibility - provided your ticket does not list a train for that section of your journey. As the 22:12 service allows reservations, you will have been issued one for it, and you are therefore tied to that particular train unless there is disruption.

There is no harm in asking the Train Manager of the 21:12 before boarding whether you can take their train, but they would be legally entitled to refuse you (even though there is no practical reason for doing so).

The fact that the ticket is routed "& Connections" merely means that it isn't limited to XC. You could take other operators' trains for unreserved portions of the journey or in the event of disruption. For example you could take WMT to Worcester and then GWR, or XC to Oxford and then GWR. Unlikely there is actually a connection that late at night, but you get the idea.

Thanks - yes I might try to find the TM before boarding...

 

[Mike99]

I notice this evening for example the 21:06 arrival from Edinburgh is scheduled into platform 1, the 21:12 departure onwards to Bristol Temple Meads is platformed into 11B I'm hoping this information might help in your planning and positioning for the stairs/lifts escalators etc. Real Time Trains might help keep you abreast of how the 21:12 departure is doing. At least the 22:12 (if you don't get permission to board the 21:12) is also for example this evening scheduled for platform 11B

 

[-Colly405-]

Excellent thanks - I think I'll be keeping a eye on RTT miss evening on July 1st as I head south through Staffordshire!