Query ref Off Peak Rtn portion of ticket validity before 09.30 ands ability to excess

[WesternLancer]

Hi all - asking on behalf of a relative

They have an Off Peak Return from Bexhill to London (outward portion used yesterday early evening)

Context is then travelled onwards to Scotland on separate ticket, returning on Caledonian Sleeper arrival Euston c07.30 tomorrow (Friday)

I believe the return portion of the Bexhill to London ticket is not valid until 09.29 to depart London for Bexhill

My query
a) is this correct ref departing London after 09.29 ?

b) is it possible to pay an excess fare to permit use of the ticket before 09.29 ?

c) If so what would that excess fare be? (eg an excess up to the price of the Anytime Single?)

Ticket is discounted with 16-25 Railcard

Edit:
Further details from copy of ticket:

'valid only via Haywards Heath'

Restriction Code 4B

From 'London Underground Zones 1-6

Paid £37.60 with 16-25 Railcard discount applied


For context - relative says that they checked this with ticket office staff when buying ticket and they advised along lines of 'off peak ticket would be OK at that early time because it is service out of London' - which did not sound correct to me.

Would welcome ticket experts advice to be sure of options / best course of action

Thanks in advance.

 

[tspaul26]

What is the route on the Off Peak Return?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@WesternLancer. Alternatively, what price was paid for the Off Peak Return from Bexhill to London. There's a few variants with slightly different terms and conditions.

 

[WesternLancer]

What is the route on the Off Peak Return?

Apols- just been sent pic of ticket - not easy for me to upload but it is

'valid only via Haywards Heath'

Restriction Code 4B

From 'London Underground Zones 1-6

Paid £37.60 with 16-25 Railcard discount applied

@WesternLancer. Alternatively, what price was paid for the Off Peak Return from Bexhill to London. There's a few variants with slightly different terms and conditions.

Thanks - hopefully juts been able to add that info

 

[tspaul26]

In that case, not valid on any train timed to depart before 0930 tomorrow morning.

The usual excess fare payable when desiring to travel at a time when an Off Peak Return is not valid is the difference compared to the appropriate return fare.

However, in this instance there is no period return fare for this flow other than the Off Peak Return.

Accordingly, as the outward portion was not used on the same day as the return journey then the only way to calculate the excess would in theory be to charge the difference between the fare paid (£37.60) and the appropriate single fare for each leg.

Assuming that your relative travels back via Haywards Heath then this would be two Anytime Day Singles (£31.45 each).

The excess fare would therefore be £25.30. We don’t need to worry about the minimum fare on the railcard.

However, actually getting this issued at a ticket office may require some ‘shopping around’.

Personally, I would rather save the money and if necessary grab a coffee and croissant somewhere in London whilst waiting for the first available train to depart at or after 0930.

 

[MotCO]

If you were to argue that the journey started in Scotland on the Caledonian Sleeper, would that make any difference?

I recall some posts of journeys starting in Kent via Paddington to the West Country which had no peak time restrictions since the journey did not start at Paddington (despite the Paddington leg starting in the peak hours)- maybe it is dependent on restriction codes?

 

[WesternLancer]

In that case, not valid on any train timed to depart before 0930 tomorrow morning.

The usual excess fare payable when desiring to travel at a time when an Off Peak Return is not valid is the difference compared to the appropriate return fare.

However, in this instance there is no period return fare for this flow other than the Off Peak Return.

Accordingly, as the outward portion was not used on the same day as the return journey then the only way to calculate the excess would in theory be to charge the difference between the fare paid (£37.60) and the appropriate single fare for each leg.

Assuming that your relative travels back via Haywards Heath then this would be two Anytime Day Singles (£31.45 each).

The excess fare would therefore be £25.30. We don’t need to worry about the minimum fare on the railcard.

However, actually getting this issued at a ticket office may require some ‘shopping around’.

Personally, I would rather save the money and if necessary grab a coffee and croissant somewhere in London whilst waiting for the first available train to depart at or after 0930.

Many thanks - that's all clear.

I agree with your conclusion - i will recommend spending the money on a bit of breakfast rather than such a hefty excess unless time really is critical. I think give the time to travel from Euston to Victoria etc and the plausible departures time south I suspect only about 90 mins maximum is at stake.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

As the ticket seems to be an Off Peak Return from Bexhill to Zone1256 London, does that mean that not even the zonal part of the return journey may be commenced before 0930 (if that is correct)?

 

[yorkie]

If you were to argue that the journey started in Scotland on the Caledonian Sleeper, would that make any difference?

No.

I recall some posts of journeys starting in Kent via Paddington to the West Country which had no peak time restrictions since the journey did not start at Paddington (despite the Paddington leg starting in the peak hours)-

When you refer to 'journeys', what this actually means is a ticket that covers that journey.

If you use a combination of tickets for a journey, then the validity of each individual ticket must be taken into consideration.

maybe it is dependent on restriction codes?

This is documented on the relevant restriction code for the ticket held, yes

As the ticket seems to be an Off Peak Return from Bexhill to Zone1256 London, does that mean that not even the zonal part of the return journey may be commenced before 0930 (if that is correct)?

For the portion from Zone U1256 London to Bexhill, the time restrictions apply once you take a National Rail service, but do not apply to the LU element of the journey

The LU add-on amounts do not vary by time, and are a fixed amount for the appropriate zones, so the LU element would cost the same regardless of whether it was an Anytime or Off Peak fare.

However, it might not be an entirely hassle-free experience; I can't guarantee if the ticket would work the barriers, and not all LU gate line staff understand the rules of NR ticketing, and not everyone who doesn't understand the rules works on the principle of giving the benefit of the doubt.

 

[tspaul26]

As the ticket seems to be an Off Peak Return from Bexhill to Zone1256 London, does that mean that not even the zonal part of the return journey may be commenced before 0930 (if that is correct)?

That is not correct.

As long as no National Rail services are used prior to the 0930 cut-off then there is no published restriction which would prohibit commencing the zonal add-on part of the journey prior to that time e.g. by tube from Euston to Victoria before 0930.

 

[WesternLancer]

That is not correct.

As long as no National Rail services are used prior to the 0930 cut-off then there is no published restriction which would prohibit commencing the zonal add-on part of the journey prior to that time e.g. by tube from Euston to Victoria before 0930.

many thanks - info appreciated.

For the portion from Zone U1256 London to Bexhill, the time restrictions apply once you take a National Rail service, but do not apply to the LU element of the journey

The add-on amounts do not vary, and are a fixed amount, so the LU element would cost the same regardless of whether it was an Anytime or Off Peak fare.

However it might not be an entirely hassle -free experience; I can't guarantee if the ticket would work the barriers, and not all LU gate line staff understand the rules of NR ticketing, and not everyone who doesn't understand the rules works on the principle of giving the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks Yorkie - have advised relative to be ready to debate this with gateline attendants on LU in event of ticket not opening barriers before 09.30.

 

[island]

That is not correct.

As long as no National Rail services are used prior to the 0930 cut-off then there is no published restriction which would prohibit commencing the zonal add-on part of the journey prior to that time e.g. by tube from Euston to Victoria before 0930.

I agree; however, being allowed through LU ticket barriers with an off peak ticket prior to 0930 is not a given.

 

[SeanG]

If they want to avoid any potential hassle, your friend could get the 390 or 24 bus which would take them all the way to Victoria.
If it was me I would get the bus park way and then walk through Westminster/St James Park for a bit of a leg stretch and fresh air after a night on the sleeper and, as others have said, grab a brew and breakfast. This might make a more pleasant start to the day for your friend

 

[WesternLancer]

Many thanks to all who have pitched in on this, all contributions much appreciated - so by way of an update on the helpful points made

- decision was taken to await the 09.30 validity time of the Off Peak rtn portion before on ward travel to the south coast

- it did not sound like there was any problems at Euston LU with using the ticket to get through barriers and on the tube before 09.30

- out of interest the ticket office at Victoria station was asked about excessing the ticket but essentially the staff member spoken to didn't seem to know how to do it and I assume wasn't enthusiastic about finding out. Sadly this is poor.

If they want to avoid any potential hassle, your friend could get the 390 or 24 bus which would take them all the way to Victoria.
If it was me I would get the bus park way and then walk through Westminster/St James Park for a bit of a leg stretch and fresh air after a night on the sleeper and, as others have said, grab a brew and breakfast. This might make a more pleasant start to the day for your friend

With time to kill going by bus would have been an excellent idea, and a walk as suggested a pleasant option too.