Query: time of travel with Anytime Day Single

[ian1944]

When I travel between North Berwick and Edinburgh on a weekday it is nearly always off-peak, so the appropriate ticket is an Off-Peak Day Return (£6.80 discounted by 50% with an E Lothian concession card). This £3.40 ticket is not available at the station machine. Sometimes, the conductor doesn't get to me because of number on the train so at Waverley I buy the ticket at the temporary platform barrier, if any. No barrier means a purchase at the travel centre, usually immediately to avoid a possible holdup when returning. The travel centre won't sell me the discounted Off-Peak Return (I tried a few times, then gave up), presumably because the concession card doesn't cover a two-way journey apparently starting outside E Lothian, so I save 20p and get a half-price single (£6.40 discounted to £3.20). But the only available one is an Anytime Day Single, which is endorsed "Lothian" and shows the price actually paid.

I've always made the return trip outside the peak hour, i.e. departing up to 16.43 or from 18.17, but would the wording on the ticket allow travel at any time? This doesn't enter the conversation at the ticket window, I just ask for a single to North Berwick and show my card - by claiming the discount, am I implicitly accepting the time restriction?

Incidentally, am I committing an offence when failing to pay the final 20p due?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....I've always made the return trip outside the peak hour, i.e. departing up to 16.43 or from 18.17, but would the wording on the ticket allow travel at any time? This doesn't enter the conversation at the ticket window, I just ask for a single to North Berwick and show my card - by claiming the discount, am I implicitly accepting the time restriction?....

Some would argue that if you were not told of the restriction then it cannot apply, however, given you applied for the discount card in the first place, I don't think that is a convincing argument to make, so yes, imo, you are accepting it, though a ticket clerk should remind you of the restriction every single time you buy one.

If you travel at the restricted time, you would be liable for an excess fare to the non-discounted rate.

....Incidentally, am I committing an offence when failing to pay the final 20p due?

IANAL, but if you actually ask to buy a return each time, and are refused, I don't think you are committing an offence. However, if you only ever ask for the single to go back later then I believe you are.

 

[30907]

Surely an Anytime Day Single cannot have a time restriction?

NRE doesn't mention any time restrictions attached to the concession card, but apparently there are, and you would be deemed to know of them by virtue of having one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely an Anytime Day Single cannot have a time restriction?

It can't in and of itself, but it can if a Railcard causes it to have.

 

[furlong]

The travel centre won't sell me the discounted Off-Peak Return (I tried a few times, then gave up), presumably because the concession card doesn't cover a two-way journey apparently starting outside E Lothian, so I save 20p and get a half-price single (£6.40 discounted to £3.20). But the only available one is an Anytime Day Single, which is endorsed "Lothian" and shows the price actually paid.

Firstly, carry an old copy of the exact ticket you require and show that at the travel centre, saying you need an identical one but dated today and that you've just come from North Berwick but didn't have an opportunity to buy your ticket on board etc. If someone refuses to sell you the ticket for incorrect reasons like the one you mention, you should ask to speak to the manager and if need be make formal complaints in writing to the train company involved and/or to East Lothian Council.

I've always made the return trip outside the peak hour, i.e. departing up to 16.43 or from 18.17, but would the wording on the ticket allow travel at any time? This doesn't enter the conversation at the ticket window, I just ask for a single to North Berwick and show my card - by claiming the discount, am I implicitly accepting the time restriction?

Yes you are. It seems inexcusable that National Rail website has not yet been updated to take account of the time restrictions. I suggest you carry a print out of the first page though, to refute any claim that the discount doesn't apply from North Berwick.

Incidentally, am I committing an offence when failing to pay the final 20p due?

If there was an attempt to prosecute you, you might find yourself needing evidence that you had tried to pay for the journey you had just made on arrival but the railway itself refused to accept the correct payment from you. So always ask for the correct ticket and escalate to a manager if sale is incorrectly refused.

 

[ian1944]

Thanks for the various replies.

I've never used the discounted "Anytime" Single in the peak period, and have no intention of doing so - but it seems ridiculous for there not to be a specific Off-Peak Single available, given the discounting possibility.

The suggestion of escalation to a level above the ticket clerk at Waverley would be very anti-social, given the queues in the travel centre, so I think I'll return to a previous approach - ask for the return, accept the single but tender exactly £3.40 and walk away.

 

[greatkingrat]

I think you are confusing two separate issues. It is quite normal on short distance flows to only have Anytime Day Return, Offpeak Day Return, and Anytime Day Single on sale with no Offpeak Day Single. Just because you are using a railcard that has its own time restrictions attached does not mean you have to be sold an Off Peak ticket.

That is all separate from the issue about why they are unable to issue you with the return you want to buy. Have you tried asking for a return Edinburgh - North Berwick, instead of North Berwick - Edinburgh?

 

[LexyBoy]

It's probably the lack of local knowledge, but I find it very confusing that the discount would be [claimed to be] valid for a single journey, but not a return, from outwith the area covered.

In any case I would strongly advise ensuring that you are sold the correct ticket - taking an old one is a good idea, as is getting written confirmation that a return should be sold. Simply accepting the single and paying an extra 20 pence is not sufficient - the ticket is still a single and as such not valid for the return journey.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That wouldn't technically be valid either as you have to use a return in the right order.

ScotRail is not prosecution happy (Scottish law makes it harder) so I wouldn't bother yourself about it provided you have offered to pay the correct fare.

 

[ian1944]

Thanks for the further replies. In partial answer, I've asked for the discounted return at Waverley in both sequences, each time being told that it can't be done. In view of the varied and sometimes contradictory opinions expressed here, I've asked Scotrail some detailed questions about all this. If what comes back is meaningful, I'll post it here.