Questions about Norwich-Lowestoft

[Meerkat]

Hoping you learned folk could answer some questions I have after watching a recent cab ride video please.

There is an underbridge at Postwick with a 20mph limit, yet the bridge has clearly been recently replaced. How long does it take to get such speed restrictions lifted?
To the East of Reedham station there is a run of splendid telegraph poles with large numbers of crosspieces (official term??). I was surprised to see them still there, and even more surprised that they seem to still have at least a couple of wires between them. It’s all been resignalled so what are they for?

And lastly a more general question. When such a line with long signal blocks is resignalled is it to a similar system with ‘homes’ and distants? I assume it’s too far for the previous block signal to show yellow For the next one?

 

[Lucy1501]

How long does it take to get such speed restrictions lifted?

Whilst I’m not an expert on the area, the restriction could be in place for many other reasons, e.g. level crossing sighting or poor condition of the ground in the surrounding area.

It’s all been resignalled so what are they for?

The railway has a habit of leaving things behind if it’s not a safety hazard or essential for the works. It’s been decades since Seacombe Junction near Birkenhead shut, and a signalpost still remains by the line!

And lastly a more general question. When such a line with long signal blocks is resignalled is it to a similar system with ‘homes’ and distants? I assume it’s too far for the previous block signal to show yellow For the next one?

When a line is resignalled it is done so for the capacity requirements of the line. Much of the Yarmouth and Lowestoft lines are 2 aspect signalling with some 3 aspects mixed in.

Whilst many people like to think of modern resignalling schemes as 3 or 4 aspect, in a lot of cases it just doesn’t make sense, hence 2 aspect has been used throughout the majority of the line.

A distant needs to be full service braking distance from the first associated stop signal. You are right in assuming it would be too far away if a separate distant wasn’t provided.

 

[Tio Terry]

" To the East of Reedham station there is a run of splendid telegraph poles with large numbers of crosspieces ..... "

They are known as Arms. The normal, 4 position arms are 48" but there is often a top arm of 60" which can accommodate 6 wires, the outer two being power supplies for the signalling system.

I doubt very much that they are in use these days, probably just not recovered.

Just out of interest, I have been up every one of the telegraph poles between Reedham station and the point where the Yarmouth line diverges under the road bridge in years gone past. Many years ago BR ran a pair wires from the Station to Berney Arms so that a public telephone could be provided there near the station and I was part of the team that carried out the work.

 

[Meerkat]

Whilst I’m not an expert on the area, the restriction could be in place for many other reasons, e.g. level crossing sighting or poor condition of the ground in the surrounding area.

From the placing of the signs it was for the bridge (ie changed up again right after). And the bridge was presumably replaced for a reason.
I assume there is a fair amount of paperwork involved in changing a speed limit, so was wondering how long it took - I assume the drivers just need a notice rather than any training?

I doubt very much that they are in use these days, probably just not recovered.

I was surprised they were still there, as they weren't all that vertical so might be a risk to the railway if they were abandoned.
I wondered if they are the only communication with Berney Arms?

 

[Tio Terry]

I was surprised they were still there, as they weren't all that vertical so might be a risk to the railway if they were abandoned.
I wondered if they are the only communication with Berney Arms?

No, technology has moved on, there's no need for physical lines to telephones now that mobile phone technology has taken over.

 

[Meerkat]

No, technology has moved on, there's no need for physical lines to telephones now that mobile phone technology has taken over.

Ok, only fixed communication.
If there was some old agreement to supply the wired connection it’s not necessarily simple to just decide to stop.

 

[dk1]

That bridge is on Oak Lane & only 20mph for freight & loco hauled services. All other DMUs & BMUs operate at 60mph. It was replaced around 5 years ago but for some reason all the necessary work wasn’t done so the speed restriction remains.

 

[Tio Terry]

Ok, only fixed communication.
If there was some old agreement to supply the wired connection it’s not necessarily simple to just decide to stop.

I don't think there is a telegraph pole route between Reedham Junction and Berney Arms now so there can't be any wires between the bridge and where the phone box was.

 

[dk1]

Berney Arms has a help point with live train departure information.

 

[Tio Terry]

Berney Arms has a help point with live train departure information.

A quick look on Google maps confirms that there is no pole route now.

At a guess, there is now internet around Berney Arms, either by GSM, Microwave or possibly BT cable. Probably extends to the houses and pub by the pumping windmill. Don't think NR has cabled between Berney Arms and either Reedham or Gt Yarmouth.

 

[Meerkat]

That bridge is on Oak Lane & only 20mph for freight & loco hauled services. All other DMUs & BMUs operate at 60mph. It was replaced around 5 years ago but for some reason all the necessary work wasn’t done so the speed restriction remains.

Thanks. What kind of other work was there apart from a new bridge.

I don't think there is a telegraph pole route between Reedham Junction and Berney Arms now so there can't be any wires between the bridge and where the phone box was.

Just did the sensible thing and looked at Google streetview. The route doesn't go east of Mill Lane but westwards from that bridge you can see some magnificently armed poles that definitely still have wires. They stop at the Witton Grn bridge, which does have the now disused signal box immediately to the west.

 

[Energy]

At a guess, there is now internet around Berney Arms, either by GSM, Microwave or possibly BT cable. Probably extends to the houses and pub by the pumping windmill. Don't think NR has cabled between Berney Arms and either Reedham or Gt Yarmouth.

BT can supply internet there, though at a max speed 1mbps, it'll be good enough for a departure board and not much else.

Ofcom say it has OK mobile coverage so I'd probably guess a fixed 4G link.

 

[High Dyke]

And lastly a more general question. When such a line with long signal blocks is resignalled is it to a similar system with ‘homes’ and distants? I assume it’s too far for the previous block signal to show yellow For the next one?

As other have alluded to, there is no set criteria, merely what the line capacity justifies. For example, when Allington Junction SB was replaced in 2005 the number of signals in place increased, to take into account the construction of Allington Chord. As part of that the signal box at Barkston East closed, and from the Allington point of view, it was a like for like distant and home signal replacement, but now on Track Circuit Block (TCB), from Absolute Block (AB). However, when the East Nottingham resignalling took place, which saw the closure of a number of signal boxes between Nottingham - Newark and Netherfield Junction - Allington, it wasn't a like for like number of signals replaced. Fewer signals were installed making longer headways on the same traffic pattern..

 

[dk1]

A quick look on Google maps confirms that there is no pole route now.

At a guess, there is now internet around Berney Arms, either by GSM, Microwave or possibly BT cable. Probably extends to the houses and pub by the pumping windmill. Don't think NR has cabled between Berney Arms and either Reedham or Gt Yarmouth.

Nothing much at the windmill and the pub has been shut for years. Gets a good phone signal etc as very close to Burgh Castle across Breydon Water.

 

[Tio Terry]

Nothing much at the windmill and the pub has been shut for years. Gets a good phone signal etc as very close to Burgh Castle across Breydon Water.

Then it's probably GSM providing internet for the departure board - it's not as if it's going to be constantly changing - and VoIP for the help line.

 

[dk1]

Then it's probably GSM providing internet for the departure board - it's not as if it's going to be constantly changing - and VoIP for the help line.

It’s solar powered too.

And if the service gets cancelled it’s not like there’s going to be anything that can be done for the hapless passengers at Berney but suppose it at least gives them a heads up to start walking.