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I have just had a trip to Margate for two days (Sunday and Monday) with an open return ticket (off peak), and bought two PlusBus tickets covering the Isle of Thanet. The train station staff did allow me to buy two, but only one with railcard discount (£2.95+£4.50). He just simply said it was due to terms and conditions. On the official website of PlusBus they just talked about something like time restrictions, nothing about the limitations of one PlusBus ticket for one return train ticket.
I am quite confused about the policy of PlusBus not because something is said unclearly, but something (e.g. How many tickets I can buy) is not said.
Is that there is no limitation of the number of PlusBus but only one day for railcard discount? Thanks so much!
The member of ticket office staff has issued you with an undiscounted PlusBus ticket for the 30th, which is a Monday. This is presumably because they thought that the minimum fare of £13 which applies to Network Railcard discounted tickets on weekdays, applies to PlusBus tickets as well.
NETWORK Railcard (Annual Gold Card) holders get 1/3 off the adult price of PlusBus
day tickets for towns and cities located within the South East of England, upon presentation
of their valid Network Railcard (Annual Gold Card), as follows:- Mondays to Fridays after 10:00hours; Saturday, Sunday, Bank Holidays any time. The £13 minimum fare restriction does not apply to PlusBus Day ticket purchases.
Therefore you should also have been sold a discounted PlusBus ticket for the 30th. You can contact the customer services for Southeastern, who run the Margate ticket office, to ask them to refund you the amount you were overcharged at the ticket office (£1.55).
I used to think £13 minimum fare restriction is also applicable on weekends. Usually I bought tickets from London to Kent, Sussex and Dorset which had already exceeded £13. If it also applies on PlusBus, I think it will be unavailable in most bus routes in most towns and cities.
How about time restrictions? Is before 10am already for the staff to disqualify the discount as the ticket covers full day.
The member of ticket office staff has issued you with an undiscounted PlusBus ticket for the 30th, which is a Monday. This is presumably because they thought that the minimum fare of £13 which applies to Network Railcard discounted tickets on weekdays, applies to PlusBus tickets as well.
Therefore you should also have been sold a discounted PlusBus ticket for the 30th. You can contact the customer services for Southeastern, who run the Margate ticket office, to ask them to refund you the amount you were overcharged at the ticket office (£1.55).
Do you have a source to support this claim? The user you quote has linked the PlusBus website, an extract of this page is:
Railcard discounts (1/3 off the adult price) are available for PlusBus day tickets with the following types of National Railcard: 16-25 & 26-30 Railcard; Disabled Persons Railcard; Family & Friends Railcard; HM Forces Railcard; Network Railcard; Senior Railcard; Annual Gold Card. Weekday peak period issue and use restrictions apply tp PlusBus (the minimum fare requirement does NOT apply to PlusBus).
Using the Southeastern website and asking for a single from Crayford to Margate leaving at 0600 and arriving at 0827, I'm offered a plus bus ticket for £2.95 with no mention whatsoever that it is not valid until 1000.
NETWORK Railcard (Annual Gold Card) holders get 1/3 off the adult price of PlusBus day tickets for towns and cities located within the South East of England, upon presentation of their valid Network Railcard (Annual Gold Card), as follows:
Mondays to Fridays after 10:00hours;
Saturday, Sunday, Bank Holidays any time.
The £13 minimum fare restriction does not apply to PlusBus Day ticket purchases.
Then why doesn't the Southeastern website say anything? Here's a reverse journey leaving Ramsgate before 10am, so the plus bus is clearly going to be used at that time.
If time restriction applies, why don't they just restrict the time of usage after 10:00am instead? It seems that the network railcard discount is only available weekends only. If I want to enjoy the discount I can't buy in advance. (I stayed
Then why doesn't the Southeastern website say anything? Here's a reverse journey leaving Ramsgate before 10am, so the plus bus is clearly going to be used at that time. View attachment 183002
I did try Southwestern before and they also allowed customers to buy two tickets if they have both days set. Both tickets were discounted.
If I choose the train before 10am, I can't enjoy the discount buying from Southwestern.
The below screenshot showed I chose the train departure 10:57am from Bromley South to Margate and back to London from Margate at 21:05 with off peak return railcard option on Southwestern Railway website.
We don't know the ticket office clerk's rationale for not discounting the PlusBus ticket for the Monday.
I would suggest the 10am restriction could not constitute a legitimate reason for refusing to sell it against an open return ticket unless the ticket office clerk established that the OP intended to use it before 10am (including, I suppose, establishing that the OP intended to leave town at or before about 10am on the Monday). Perhaps the OP could confirm how the conversation went?
Almost certainly an industry-side error, be it with the data supplied through RCS or something else.
In practice I think very few bus drivers are even aware of Railcard discounts or their associated restrictions. If a Network-discounted PlusBus ticket is purchased for use with a pre-10am weekday itinerary the passenger is contractually entitled to use it as such; it's up to the industry to fix the error or (preferably, but rather less likely) remove the time restriction for PlusBus.
We don't know the ticket office clerk's rationale for not discounting the PlusBus ticket for the Monday.
I would suggest the 10am restriction could not constitute a legitimate reason for refusing to sell it against an open return ticket unless the ticket office clerk established that the OP intended to use it before 10am (including, I suppose, establishing that the OP intended to leave town at or before about 10am on the Monday). Perhaps the OP could confirm how the conversation went?
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Almost certainly an industry-side error, be it with the data supplied through RCS or something else.
In practice I think very few bus drivers are even aware of Railcard discounts or their associated restrictions. If a Network-discounted PlusBus ticket is purchased for use with a pre-10am weekday itinerary the passenger is contractually entitled to use it as such; it's up to the industry to fix the error or (preferably, but rather less likely) remove the time restriction for PlusBus.
But the bus journey isn't actually on the itinerary. The purchaser can use it any way they like within the restrictions - they don't necessarily have to use it to connect with their train.
Fair point. Come to think of it the 10am restriction for PlusBus may also render it impossible for passengers to catch the first eligible train at their applicable station, so its adjustment to trains only is really the only viable option.
I have just had a trip to Margate for two days (Sunday and Monday) with an open return ticket (off peak), and bought two PlusBus tickets covering the Isle of Thanet. The train station staff did allow me to buy two, but only one with railcard discount (£2.95+£4.50). He just simply said it was due to terms and conditions....
Unfortunately, some ticket office staff make up conditions that don't exist, some choose not to read the conditions properly, and some get things completely wrong and fail to comprehend what they are reading.
Our ticketing site will happily sell PlusBus correctly:
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....If a Network-discounted PlusBus ticket is purchased for use with a pre-10am weekday itinerary the passenger is contractually entitled to use it as such; it's up to the industry to fix the error or (preferably, but rather less likely) remove the time restriction for PlusBus....
I would agree with you if there was an error, but there is no error. The only error is the member of staff being wrong (which is not uncommon at ticket offices).
Unfortunately, some ticket office staff make up conditions that don't exist, some choose not to read the conditions properly, and some get things completely wrong and fail to comprehend what they are reading.
Our ticketing site will happily sell PlusBus correctly:
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I would agree with you if there was an error, but there is no error. The only error is the member of staff being wrong (which is not uncommon at ticket offices).
Then why doesn't the Southeastern website say anything? Here's a reverse journey leaving Ramsgate before 10am, so the plus bus is clearly going to be used at that time. View attachment 183002
We don't know the ticket office clerk's rationale for not discounting the PlusBus ticket for the Monday.
I would suggest the 10am restriction could not constitute a legitimate reason for refusing to sell it against an open return ticket unless the ticket office clerk established that the OP intended to use it before 10am (including, I suppose, establishing that the OP intended to leave town at or before about 10am on the Monday). Perhaps the OP could confirm how the conversation went?
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But the bus journey isn't actually on the itinerary. The purchaser can use it any way they like within the restrictions - they don't necessarily have to use it to connect with their train.
I bought an open off peak return ticket, starting my journey from Bromley South at 7:57am on 29 June (Sun) arriving at Margate around 9:29am, buying the PlusBus ticket within 10 minutes or less at the ticket office of this station. I have already planned to leave Margate on 30 June (Mon) in the evening because my purpose of going there is to travel in Margate and Broadstairs, staying in Westwood so I would need two day tickets.
I just showed him my ticket on my phone, and said I wanted to buy two tickets. When he said the price, I realized I forgot showing him my network railcard as well. He told me the total £7.45, which was higher than I expected (£2.95*2), and he explained £2.95+£4.5. I further asked why and he said something like terms and conditions. Due to the window separating us and English as not my native language, I didn't totally understand why I had to pay but accept because the price was still cheaper if I bought two £6 dayrider from Stagecoach.
I got the ticket and left the station, but when I saw the ticket written as MARGATE+BUS, I went back and clarified to ensure the ticket covering Thanet.
He said he didn't know and asked me to clarify with the bus drivers, and said if it was not covered, I could apply for refund.
I left the station and tried to read through the official website of PlusBus, there is nothing about my discount restriction, and my ticket did cover Margate, Ramsgate and Broadstairs. I ended up taking 6 bus trips in two days by LOOP only, and every driver could identify my ticket and let me get on the bus travelling between Westwood, Margate and Broadstairs. I didn't visit Ramsgate this year.
So I didn't say or mention anything about something that I would intend to leave Margate before 10am. I wrote here because I wanted to understand PlusBus terms and conditions better. If 10am restriction applies to PlusBus, maybe they should state that the network railcard is only available weekends, or make it only usable only after 10am on weekdays (although it will create more workloads for related bus drivers to check the tickets)?
But if some train websites can allow the discounts, contrast to my case there is a confusion that the train companies or PlusBus will have to clarify.
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Unfortunately, some ticket office staff make up conditions that don't exist, some choose not to read the conditions properly, and some get things completely wrong and fail to comprehend what they are reading.
Our ticketing site will happily sell PlusBus correctly:
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I would agree with you if there was an error, but there is no error. The only error is the member of staff being wrong (which is not uncommon at ticket offices).
The OP has definitely been overcharged as their Monday usage was well after the 10am start time.
The PlusBus website is conflating two similar, but subtlely different products which actually have different am restriction times. And I have to ask whether the multitude of bus drivers actually know or care about which railcard has been used. Do they actually know what a valid railcard looks like? Are they supposed to be asking to see them when people get on the bus? And if it's a time restricted railcard, do they *all* know the different restrictions for all the different railcards?
[sarcasm] If they do know all the restrictions then they're wasted driving a bus, they should work for the railway giving better customer service! [/sarcasm]
No minimum fare applies to the sale of discounted PlusBus Day tickets. PlusBus Day tickets can not be added to the price of the rail ticket in order to meet or exceed the minimum fare requirement. Children are charged the normal PlusBus Day child fare.
but also (on another page), confirming what the PlusBus site PDF states:
Holders get discount on adult PlusBus Day ticket price upon presentation of their valid Network Railcard:
after 10:00 Monday to Friday;
anytime on Saturday, Sunday & Public Holidays.
The £13 minimum fare restriction does not apply. Children travelling as part of Railcard group are charged the normal child PlusBus fare for the destination
I wouldn't personally read this restrictively to prohibit the ticket being sold before 10am on the day of intended use, or on an earlier date. It can be read just to mean you can't get the discount if you will be using the PlusBus ticket before 10am. So if the customer intends to use the ticket before 10am, they should only be sold a non-discounted PlusBus ticket.
I don't think it's for retailers to enforce that, though, because how does an online retailer or ticket office know what time the passenger is going to make their bus journey? The ticket office could ask, but the online retailer isn't realistically going to redesign their platform so as to ask the customer whether they intend to use the PlusBus ticket before 10am. While uncommon, you could think of situations where a person would leave the interchange station which is the origin station on their ticket by rail before 10am by train - without yet having used their PlusBus ticket - but would break their journey at another interchange station within the same PlusBus zone and would then use their PlusBus ticket later in the day.
If there's a 10am restriction on the Network Railcard-discounted PlusBus ticket, that's for bus companies to enforce. If passengers manage to get away with using their Network Railcard-discounted PlusBus before 10am, well, perhaps that partially offsets the many occasions where bus drivers wrongly reject valid PlusBus tickets.
We've established in the OP's case that the ticket office clerk never established what time the ticket would be used. Even if the clerk interprets the restriction as meaning the discounted ticket can't be sold before 10am on the day of use, it would be odd to just sell it without the discount rather than giving the customer the option to either pay full price now or come back the following day after 10am if they want the discount. This makes me think the clerk probably believed the £13 minimum fare applied, and therefore the non-discounted ticket should be sold as it is less than £13.
I agree with others the OP should complain to Southeastern seeking a reimbursement of the amount overcharged and suggesting staff should be reminded that the Network Railcard £13 minimum fare doesn't apply to PlusBus tickets.
If there's a 10am restriction on the Network Railcard-discounted PlusBus ticket, that's for bus companies to enforce. If passengers manage to get away with using their Network Railcard-discounted PlusBus before 10am, well, perhaps that partially offsets the many occasions where bus drivers wrongly reject valid PlusBus tickets.
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