Rail franchise declared not fit for purpose

[Greenback]

ATW are able to give the impression that they walk all over the Minister because the latter has no real power over them. Nor does the Minister have any ability to impose unilateral changes to the franchise drawn up by the DfT in London, who undoubtedly had little interest in specifying a growth franchise! The Minister is hamstrung as revealed by the report which declares that this franchise is not fit for purpose!

I just hope that the next franchise is written by the Welsh government for Wales, by membes of the Assembly who cna then be held accountable, rathe rthan some faceless mandarin in Whitehall! I won't hold my breath though!

I remain convinced that whoever was running the Wales franchise would be in the same position as Arriva!

 

[Dai.]

I don't see what everyones problem is with ATW, living down from cardiff, I use the trains to get in to cardiff when I go and from there I use ATW to travel around Wales.

And I also use, Arriva CrossCountry to get across to major places, birmingham, peterborough etc.

Since using them, here is my verdict.
Late = 0
Delayed = 0
Broken down = 0
I've not once been delayed by an arriva train, they always work and they have never broken down for me.

I have however, been pushed aside by virgin staff, ignored and their on train service is frankly terrible.

Staff on stations and in trains are always friendly and happy too help me, yes there are a few late trains and break downs, fires breaking out, but lets be fair, look at the rest of the train network.. there are always problems like that..

It works all ways you can't highlight ATW for issues and say they are unfit for purpose when a majority of train companies are the same if not WORSE.

 

[Ivo]

Not to be rude, but I find that hard to believe. On the Valley Lines, I admit that their service isn't too bad... but frankly, it isn't hard. Even then, the first Valley Line service I used was 12 minutes late (which actually meant I caught it as opposed to missed in; I had no idea when it ran!). What you get instead is a plethora of Pacers :mad:

The Valley Lines aside, they have been extremely poor for me. As I said previously, my first ever ATW service was 29 minutes late, and then jammed full; my second was worse still. Regarding the one I mentioned previously that broke down, the problem was that the brake was jammed on. How hard to fix is that? Yet that simple problem resulted in my arriving at Swansea 82 minutes late. And it would have been worse still had I not decided to use a First HST which arrived at Newport after the 175 I was going to use following the breakdown.

Yes, I am biased against Arriva. But what do you expect given how poorly they serve Southend?

As for Virgin, I've only ever had one problem - and then it wasn't even their fault. Not to mention I received £39 in travel vouchers for a return trip the Government funded

 

[kevin37]

I also dont see what is wrong with arriva trains wales they are a super. and they are normally placed 4th on TOC unlike ther counter part company arriva cross country they hav tried to do better but thers ideas seem to be more of a curse the buffets to trolleys for example. and dont forget welsh railways have less funding than england and scotland. yet they perform a lot better.

 

[90019]

and dont forget welsh railways have less funding than england and scotland. yet they perform a lot better.

Do ATW really perform better than FSR do? :?
I have my doubts about that.

 

[kevin37]

Last time i seen the TOC ATW was 4 and FSR wasent above them then. But c2c was they always seem to be up the top.

 

[Ivo]

ATW are only so high up because of the relative ease of their Valley Line operations. The majority of ATW services are on the Valley Lines; just think about the Bay Bubble! Four minutes for a whole journey, ten times an hour (five each way), for something like 17 hours a day. Well over 1,000 journeys per week. A statistic like this will throw the result in the twerps' favour.

As for c2c, what do you expect? Is it really that hard to run a 39 miles route in 68 minutes? Not to mention that 357s are extremely reliable. The area is rarely affected by only external problems as well (not that such problems would count anyway). They serve less than 30 stations, remember.

I know I've promoted them countless times already, but Chiltern would probably be top if the table was completely fair. Five-minute margins for London to Birmingham, as opposed to Virgin's ten, and still in the Top 3 [and ahead of ATW I would quite happily add].

 

[merlodlliw]

I note some threads from South Wales think ATW is excellent even super
whatever that means, super to what?

In North Wales we can not compare ATW to the sister company X C, but we can compare it to W/S & VT, both W/S & VT care to clean their trains,
is it me, but why are all 158s via Wrexham filthy inside & out.





my opinion M

 

[kevin37]

problem that virgin have tho aint really in ther control the fact that network rail made a bit of a mess of the wc main line is why they are so far down also london midland taken a blow on the TOC no thanks to the problems with the signals and over head cables. Not forgeting ther drivers not turning up on that sunday clocking up a lot of none runners. and looks like fcc gona have same problem now due to shortage of drivers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I note some threads from South Wales think ATW is excellent even super
whatever that means, super to what?

In North Wales we can not compare ATW to the sister company X C, but we can compare it to W/S & VT, both W/S & VT care to clean their trains,
is it me, but why are all 158s via Wrexham filthy inside & out.


talk about Wales sold down the river by the DFT,
NO growth the paramount outcome, no wonder we have a fag end toc.

my opinion M

I think that would because they run across the north wales coast were thers a lot of wind and sand and ther are no roads into barnmouth thats why they are probaley dirty inside due to the amount of pepole as it would be hard for cleaners to get through even at quiet times of the day and as for the holyheads and manchester they normally get ther last clean inside at shrewsbury or crewe then not till they finish the journey i find the trains down in Cardiff are clean in and out.

 

[Ivo]

... as for the holyheads and manchester they normally get ther last clean inside at shrewsbury or crewe then not till they finish the journey i find the trains down in Cardiff are clean in and out.

And haven't Arriva ever heard of providing some kind of cleaning facility at Piccadily? It's not as though it's a nowhere station used by 20 people a day! How hard can it be to station a couple of cleaners there?

Also, I find it interesting that those who use the Valley Lines regularly are the only ones who seem to be supporting ATW in this thread... I refer back to my "ease of operation" argument.

Mind you, in my view the one decent side to ATW is ruined by the plethora of Pacers I alluded to beforehand...

 

[kevin37]

They have some sort of cleaners at picadily after all some one got to put seat rev out etc

 

[142094]

I think that would because they run across the north wales coast were thers a lot of wind and sand

Are you implying that in other parts of the country there is no wind and no sand? Most of the rubbish inside a train is from passengers, not just people bringing in stuff on their shoes. Once a train goes into a depot at the end of the night it should be cleaned, after all passengers expect a clean train (even if it is them who make the mess).

I've travelled by ATW a couple of times, once a lorry struck a bridge near Machynlleth (sp.?) and they were quite quick getting a coach on, and when we got back onto a train we got a free drink. However I have heard from other people who say that their service is much worse that this in some areas.

 

[Greenback]

I don;t use Valley Lines much, but I do commute every day on ATW trains and they are usually on time and when delayed they are just a couple of minutes late. Some of the peak trains are chronically overcrowded, but I don't think that's a problem that is confined to any one particular TOC! They always seem to be perfectly clean on the inside, though I admit the outside of some of the 150's and 153's are a bit grubby.

 

[Ivo]

Just to further the sand etc argument, when have FGW ever been affected by this kind of thing around Dawlish, except for when the waves have been dangerously high? It's not as though sand and wind aren't issues down there...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don;t use Valley Lines much, but I do commute every day on ATW trains and they are usually on time and when delayed they are just a couple of minutes late. Some of the peak trains are chronically overcrowded, but I don't think that's a problem that is confined to any one particular TOC! They always seem to be perfectly clean on the inside, though I admit the outside of some of the 150's and 153's are a bit grubby.

Then what about the Coradias? When a person spots such a unit for the first time, they would be quite impressed. Get used to them, and their appearance isn't quite what you thought. And then, enter the carriage... Oh dear.

 

[kevin37]

Are you implying that in other parts of the country there is no wind and no sand? Most of the rubbish inside a train is from passengers, not just people bringing in stuff on their shoes. Once a train goes into a depot at the end of the night it should be cleaned, after all passengers expect a clean train (even if it is them who make the mess).

I've travelled by ATW a couple of times, once a lorry struck a bridge near Machynlleth (sp.?) and they were quite quick getting a coach on, and when we got back onto a train we got a free drink. However I have heard from other people who say that their service is much worse that this in some areas.[/QUas

As for the coast yes the North wales coast is very windy becauses of the weather front from the see brought over from usa. arriva also run over a small strech of line in britain ferry west wales but thers less sand and is shelter from tress and hills on the other side of the river mouth all the trains or most are cleaned but come the end of the first working on the north wales coast they back to ther dirty state.

 

[Ivo]

Maybe it's poll time... "Are Arriva Trains Wales performing adequately in all respects to maintain the franchise?"

Guess my answer.

 

[merlodlliw]

I think that would because they run across the north wales coast were thers a lot of wind and sand and ther are no roads into barnmouth thats why they are probaley dirty inside due to the amount of pepole as it would be hard for cleaners to get through even at quiet times of the day and as for the holyheads and manchester they normally get ther last clean inside at shrewsbury or crewe then not till they finish the journey i find the trains down in Cardiff are clean in and out.[/QUOTE]

With all Due respect, VT run along the North Wales coast, their trains are clean
inside & out, so what does wind & sand? have to do with a clean train,
Im lost with your no roads into Barmouth?
Customers expect a clean train up here in the North, inside & out which is alas not the norm.

 

[kevin37]

I think that would because they run across the north wales coast were thers a lot of wind and sand and ther are no roads into barnmouth thats why they are probaley dirty inside due to the amount of pepole as it would be hard for cleaners to get through even at quiet times of the day and as for the holyheads and manchester they normally get ther last clean inside at shrewsbury or crewe then not till they finish the journey i find the trains down in Cardiff are clean in and out.

With all Due respect, VT run along the North Wales coast, their trains are clean
inside & out, so what does wind & sand? have to do with a clean train,
Im lost with your no roads into Barmouth?
Customers expect a clean train up here in the North, inside & out which is alas not the norm.[/QUOTE]

yea the crwe to holyhead line does not get close to the sea so neither atw 175s 158 that work from chester and southwales to holyhead get in a state but the ones that work shrewsbury to abberystwyth and pwllhelli do.

 

[142094]

Yes, but when I did Shrewsbury - Pwllheli, it wasn't sand it was general muck and dirt, with the odd cup and newspaper. It looked like it needed a good scrub, and I couldn't really see any sand.

 

[kevin37]

Yes, but when I did Shrewsbury - Pwllheli, it wasn't sand it was general muck and dirt, with the odd cup and newspaper. It looked like it needed a good scrub, and I couldn't really see any sand.

barnmouth is were most the sand is and 75 percent of pax that travel that way are ramblers hickers and walkers thats were the mud comes from.

 

[Drimnagh Road]

The way I see it is this, some of the problems are down to the WAG, others down to ATW themselves.

The whole North Wales Coast service is complete farcial, as mentioned before on other threads, people want a North Wales-Crewe and Manchester service, (yes I'm aware that Llandudno and points east have one to the latter), but Bangor city probably provides the most customers along the route after Chester so should get one.

The inter Wales services were orchestrated by the WAG and resulted in the basic hourly Holyhead-Crewe service changing over a number of years into an alternate Birmingham / Cardiff service. How funny is it to see Bert on the ticket office at Holyhead telling passengers coming off the ferry, or indeed anywhere along the 'Coast that despite the train on platform 2 being adverstised as going direct to Birmingham, that "you'd be quicker changing twice at Chester and Crewe"....

The 158s as we know are tatty and are utterly disgraceful, again maybe not ATWs fault due to the lack of funding but an old train can be made look good with a bit of cleaning. This is where ATW is at fault. What do you expect when a train has a four minute turn around (and that's when on time) at the likes of Holyhead and Aberystwth after operating a four hour journey from Birmingham. Normally, its driver out one in end, in the other and then we set off back with rubbish from the outbound trip scattered everywhere.

 

[142094]

The train I was on at least 75% of the people were schoolkids - however the muck wasn't just confined to the floor, the windows were dirty and the toilets even worse.

 

[kevin37]

not suprised if it has school kids on as for toilets i find that most of companys tend to forget they have toilets. also arriva are rfurbing ther 158s 158821/822/823 being completed

 

[Drimnagh Road]

When you say refurb is that a repaint or the whole internal job also?

 

[142094]

About time for the refurbs, but again it won't be long until they are back in a state again.

 

[kevin37]

About time for the refurbs, but again it won't be long until they are back in a state again.

allright i leave it at the cambrain coast line machynlleth depot gets it units in a bit of state but that is the olny let down for them.

 

[tbtc]

The way I see it is this, some of the problems are down to the WAG, others down to ATW themselves.

The whole North Wales Coast service is complete farcial, as mentioned before on other threads, people want a North Wales-Crewe and Manchester service, (yes I'm aware that Llandudno and points east have one to the latter), but Bangor city probably provides the most customers along the route after Chester so should get one.

The inter Wales services were orchestrated by the WAG and resulted in the basic hourly Holyhead-Crewe service changing over a number of years into an alternate Birmingham / Cardiff service. How funny is it to see Bert on the ticket office at Holyhead telling passengers coming off the ferry, or indeed anywhere along the 'Coast that despite the train on platform 2 being adverstised as going direct to Birmingham, that "you'd be quicker changing twice at Chester and Crewe"....

The trouble is that the politicians are in charge, hence the focus on services from north Wales to south Wales. South Wales to Liverpool was scrapped. North Wales to Liverpool was scrapped. Despite the demand for services to/ from Merseyside, there's no direct link. The old once daily service from Holyhead to Cardiff has been beefed up to a bi-hourly 158 with a daily 57 doing a limited stop version too. Apart from Assembly Members, there's not much demand for that kind of journey. Bangor has thousands of students, yet few links to "civilisation"...

 

[Greenback]

Yes, but when I did Shrewsbury - Pwllheli, it wasn't sand it was general muck and dirt, with the odd cup and newspaper. It looked like it needed a good scrub, and I couldn't really see any sand.

I have to say that we used the Cambrian Coast almost daily when on holiday in Harlech for a fortnight last July. I didn't see a dirty interior - nor did mrs greenback, and she is normally very quick to spot any dirt!

 

[steve099]

not suprised if it has school kids on as for toilets i find that most of companys tend to forget they have toilets. also arriva are rfurbing ther 158s 158821/822/823 being completed

I suspect this may be in relation to the potential London workings and therefore not part of a wider refurbishment programme?

 

[142094]

I have to say that we used the Cambrian Coast almost daily when on holiday in Harlech for a fortnight last July. I didn't see a dirty interior - nor did mrs greenback, and she is normally very quick to spot any dirt!

This would have been in 2007 when I ventured down on an ALR, the 158 I was on looked as if it needed a thorough clean, just a bit of soap and water, not much. You could tell that all the big bits of rubbish had been removed but dust and accumulated dirt was still there.