furnessvale
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You may also see Carefoot or RM Hadfield HGVs on the same run.
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Rail Freight Flows and News UK
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Adrian Barr
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You must have a sixth sense, considering that trains to Goole Docks resumed a few days after your post!
6X95 ran from Scunthorpe on Mon 16th, Wed 18th, Mon 23rd, Wed 25th October, returning as 6D95 (via Doncaster Belmont in both directions). It should run again tomorrow (Monday 30th).
Below is some general info on export traffic from Scunthorpe (rail and slab) and coil flows through the east coast ports:
The Goole flow is export rail on IGA wagons (I'm not sure of the ultimate destination). This type of traffic is likely to involve short-term contracts to deliver a certain amount of rail, which explains the very sporadic running.
I found a good action shot of the rail being offloaded (a tandem lift using a pair of cranes) at Goole in 2021: https://www.flickr.com/photos/140584851@N08/51103929065/in/photostream/
Rail from Scunthorpe on IGA wagons is also sometimes exported through Immingham (usually Ridleys Siding I believe). Typical headcodes would be 6X71 loaded, returning as 6G84.
The description under this photo (of the empties passing Immingham Reception) has a lot of detail: https://www.flickr.com/photos/43709405@N07/15236294542/
"Ridleys Siding" is on the east side of the docks. If you find weighbridge 3, Immingham Docks on google maps, there is a siding entering a large expanse of tarmac between warehouses. On the satellite view there are 3 large stacks of what appear to be rails waiting for export. This area of the docks was part of an open day in 2012 - https://www.flickr.com/photos/farmer55/7650932636/
It also features on the cover of the Middleton Press book covering Immingham and Barton-On-Humber. The lettering on the warehouse in the background is for the Forest Products terminal.
These trains are not out of gauge but run under "X load" conditions due to a restriction on the maximum radius of curve they can negotiate (this doesn't happen with rail delivery trains and seems to be specific to movements using IGAs). I think the IGAs are usually loaded with rail lengths up to ~100 metres, compared to typical lengths of 216 metres on a rail delivery train. The IGA wagons at Scunthorpe are also used for the channel tunnel movements to Muizen, Belgium mentioned upthread. This usually runs loaded overnight as 6X28 and the empties eventually return as 4E26 [actually 6E26 with 60mph IGAs] using former paths of the Hayange slab trains. There have also been similar rail movements to Konigsborn, Germany through the tunnel.
This Scunthorpe pool of IGAs is also sometimes used on the Scunthorpe - Eastleigh rail trains (6X01 returning as 6E15) as seen here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dan700/26037660273/
However, over recent years it seems to be more common for RDT sets (rail delivery trains, the ones used on possession sites to drop rail) to be used on this service.
The Scunthorpe - Immingham trains also sometimes run with export slabs on BBA / BAA / BDA type wagons, as seen here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/johngreyturner/51311505188/
I think these are offloaded at the Nordic terminal. Typical headcodes are 6G72 (loaded), returning empty as 6G84.
Another sporadic export slab flow from Scunthorpe is to Tees Dock, running occasionally as 6N12 direct to Tees Dock and then (usually) back to Tees Yard empty as 6P60 before returning to Scunthorpe on the regular 6D97 or 6D11 services. 6P60 used to be the headcode for the local trip working from Tees Yard in EWS days, visiting exotic locales such as Seal Sands.
I'm not sure when the last trains of coil ran from Goole, when I search for photos they have Class 56s on... was it really that long ago? The headcode 6D88 sticks in my mind. This picture from 1999 is a gem, with a 37 arriving on a pipe train (not something I remember, probably a short term flow), a 56 on the more usual coil wagons, and an 08 in the background - https://www.flickr.com/photos/56249446@N06/52977032726/
Goole aside, coil traffic through the east coast ports is fairly healthy at the moment. Boston Docks has regular trains to Wolverhampton Steel Terminal and also to Preymesser at Swindon (for use in the BMW plant at Cowley).
Immingham and Hull both despatch imported coils for Wolverhampton, with the Hull wagons (using the 6D94 / 6J94 return trip from Rotherham to Hull) being picked up at Rotherham on 6M99 Immingham - Wolves.
Immingham and Hull also handle export coil traffic from Llanwern and Port Talbot, usually running overnight as 6E20 with Hull wagons being detached at Rotherham for the 6D94 trip to Hull. The empties return from Hull to Rotherham as 6J94 and join the returning 6V77 empties from Immingham at Rotherham (another overnight train). This means that the Rotherham - Hull trips can have loaded coils in either direction, but the Tata wagons from south wales return empty without getting mixed up with the loaded flow to Wolverhampton. The traffic from South Wales going to Hull is fairly easy to distinguish because there will most likely be some curtain-sided IHA wagons on it, while the Hull to Wolves flow is exclusively BYAs with the telescopic metal roofs. The mixture of wagons on this service would indicate empty wagons returning to South Wales: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rich_d3167/51062035983/
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BRX
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Thanks for all this info. Is the steel traffic that goes through the east coast ports mainly just crossing the north sea do you know, or coming from/ going to places further afield?
NI 271
Member
Maybe the idea was canned?
Sun Chariot
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Ploughman
Established Member
Options, too many Varieties.
littledude
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As far as I am aware, the import traffic is from ArcelorMittal, so from Germany
Gaz67
Member
Heading up to Settle and Ribblehead next Friday 17 so gave rtt a quick peruse, noticed the Wembley Irvine reappeared showing as 17/11/23 only, thought this looked promising, looked a day later and it had vanished. Is this just a computer generated glitch?. Also noticed a Grain gbrf to Carlisle new yard, anybody any idea what this is?
Freightmaster
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As Mark says the Wembley Irvine has ceased but still remains in the WTT but does seem to appear or disappear on RTT. I have no idea what the Grain to Carlisle NY is but to the best of my knowledge it has never run.
Are you travelling up and down to various locations on the line or did you have one spot in particular you were wanting to head for? I may be able to give you a guide as to what freight to expect if you don’t know already.
Gaz67
Member
Walking with a friend around Ribblehead, may tackle Whernside, the 2 freights I want to see are the Tuebrook Ribblehead and the empty gypsum(still mea's?). The Tuebrook ran last Friday with 60026 so doubtful if that will run again.Any heads up will be appreciated.
ExRes
Established Member
Back in September DCR did two lots of route learning, one was around Preston/Ribblehead the other Grain Brett Marine & Woking Yard, there was a suggestion that both were for work starting in October, nothing has happened with either since, does anyone know if work is likely to begin or if the Quainton contract has caused both to be cancelled due to a lack of loco numbers? Thanks
Freightmaster
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As you say it is unlikely the Trubrook to Ribblehead will run and as Mark from Freightmaster has said unfortunately the gypsum train which used to run Tuesday to Friday most weeks now only runs Tuesdays & Thursdays and that is only as required. The only two freight you are likely to see are the 6K05 Carlisle to Crewe departmental and 6J37 Carlisle to Chirk logs. There is of course the RHTT 3J11 Carlisle to Carlisle due through at 15:54 but as you may well know they are often very loose times. Of course always keep an eye on RTT’s between now and then to see if anything changes. I hope the weather is kind for you.
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MattyJames
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Having just had a quick scan I was unable to find anything on the GBRf Ditton workings, I see they've taken over from Freightliner? How long has this been?
Freightmaster
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If you mean the new GBRf service from Felixstowe to Ditton (4M61/4L62), that runs in addition to the two
existing Freightliner services on that route.
MARK
MattyJames
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Ahh so Freightliner still operate out of their, thanks.
First train operated on 10 October 2023 by 66746. It (4L62) was timed to depart from Ditton after the Freightliner 4L92 departed by about 10 minutes which is not much leeway as both trains need to operate to Speke Junction first for loco's to run round before they head south which lead to some erratic operating. I noted recently 4L62 is now operating 40+ minutes later from Ditton which makes more sense.
Adrian Barr
Member
I assume it's generally north sea traffic to/from Nordic and other European ports. Some of the Arcelor Mittal coils (mentioned by littledude) coming through Boston are from their plants in Belgium and Northern France, suggesting they may be shipped from Antwerp perhaps. A complication is that feeder services from smaller ports (e.g. Newport Docks) can sometimes be conveying freight which will be transferred to larger vessels in a major port such as Antwerp, for eventual delivery to other continents. Beyond that I don't have enough knowledge of shipping to figure it out...
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Metals update
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For some other updates on metals traffic, an interesting development recently was a trial movement of scrap from Saltley to Port Talbot, using a short rake of 13 TIPH 98xx JNA wagons (previously used on spoil traffic but originally used for scrap traffic). This was loaded at Saltley (EMR Birmingham, near the old Saltley loco stabling point) on 20th October, but widespread flooding delayed delivery until Monday 23rd. Scrap traffic to Port Talbot has been running for many years from Trostre (in a weekly train of SSA wagons) and in the recent past from Corby (also in SSAs, as tail traffic on the 6M94 / 6V92 coil train) but I can't recall any services running there from 3rd party suppliers (I assume most of the scrap requirements at the BOS plant are met by road delivery from local scrapyards). I don't think this flow has run more than once at the time of writing, it might become a regular train but could have been a one-off test run.
On the subject of Port Talbot, I've just posted a detailed look at operations there which may be of interest to regular readers of this thread -
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...reight-flows-and-internal-rail-system.257742/
I also posted something similar looking at the operations at Cardiff Celsa. It contains a lot of detail, although (spoiler) don't expect the timetable requested in the original post!
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/timetable-for-cardiff-celsa-trips.256361/
Scrap has also been running (generally weekly) from Saltley to Cardiff Tidal in recent months for Celsa, as 6M27 / 6V27, with the usual MBA wagons. Before that, I'm not sure if Saltley had been active for a while. It had been sending trains to EMR at Liverpool, but I think they stopped for a while (in fact the only scrap to Liverpool I've noticed recently has been from Swindon - perhaps someone can confirm). Scrap from Saltley to Cardiff is definitely a case of "new old traffic" - here it is seen in a rather nice shot passing Pengam in 2000, using a very clean set of the TIPH 98xx wagons mentioned earlier - https://www.flickr.com/photos/93293618@N05/51910234558/
There was also a scrap trial from Swindon to Cardiff Celsa last week, which ran as 6B28 / 6V28 on 8th November. Swindon usually sends its scrap to Liverpool EMR as mentioned already.
Another new scrap flow was running in September from Ripple Lane to Cardiff Docks for Ward Recycling. To quote myself from the thread on Celsa operations:
FrodshamJnct
Established Member
Have Freightliner taken over the flow of sand to Encirc glass works in Elton from DB?
Oxfordblues
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It would appear so, with a run-round at Latchford Sidings as I presume DB Cargo won't let them use Arpley Yard.
Freightmaster
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Yes - changed over in June this year.
(DB still operate the crushed glass train from Tilbury)
MARK
FrodshamJnct
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Cheers Mark. Shows how observant I am! Only go past the bottom of my garden every day
stantheman
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Clitheroe cement also
Unfortunately this no longer runs on a Friday, (only Monday & Wednesday) and didn’t run on Friday 17th the day he was going.
Gaz67
Member
Well the weather was fine, started of with an excellent breakfast at Hellifield station {well worth a visit with one room full of 2nd hand railway books and memorabillia for sale}. Empties to Arcow went through so we drove to the terminal for a few phots. Up at Ribblehead the terminal looks ready for another train, went for walk past Blea Moor up to tunnel mouth , logs rolled past and were early so went into the loop for the passenger to pass. Walking back and saw the RHTT on the viaduct with a DRS-TP combo,finished off in the pub with fish and chips. Forgot to mention a chap we met clad in orange who was walking the line north of the signalbox, he was a geologist who was looking for any sign of movements on the embankment. All in all an enjoyable day.
D6130
Established Member
Excellent....glad to hear you had a good day! A friend of mine, who is a GBRf driver based at Rylstone, was booked to relieve the stone train at Arcow Quarry today and work 6M37 as far as Wakefield Kirkgate. He drove from home in Keighley and also stopped off for a late breakfast in the cafe at Hellifield. While there he took a few photos of Black 5 no. 45407, which had worked 5M50, a WCRC test train from Carnforth.
FrodshamJnct
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66787