Rail replacement buses during strikes

[Spet0789]

Out of interest, why not?

Thinking of today’s Greater Anglia strike, where only drivers have walked out, leaving stations staffed.

 

[northernbelle]

It constitutes bringing in outside workers to replace the strikers - which is (currently) illegal.

Using your own employees to cover is fine though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It constitutes bringing in outside workers to replace the strikers - which is (currently) illegal.

Has there been recent changed legal precedent on this? As some TOCs have chosen to do this in the past, most notably FNW's extremely comprehensive bus network for strikes in the early 2000s.

I was of the impression that replacing directly was illegal, but a "different" replacement was OK. e.g. if a works canteen strike was happening, bringing in staff to work that kitchen was illegal, but asking a burger van operator if they'd mind parking outside that day would be fine.

Out of interest, why not?

Thinking of today’s Greater Anglia strike, where only drivers have walked out, leaving stations staffed.

Because it costs TOCs money they don't want to spend, primarily. Also getting buses at the moment can be difficult.

 

[The exile]

What happens in the case of RRB services already advertised for engineering works if (say) signalling staff are on strike but not traincrew? No one is actually strikebreaking…
Thus is of course assuming the RRB is worth running on its own (say it’s a busy branch line out in its entirety).

 

[Horizon22]

Presumably because they simply can’t be resourced reliably for the entire area and GA are running an incredibly sparse service (about 10% of trains). The buses would get outrageously overcrowded and would be a logistical, expensive nightmare to coordinate across the whole network.

 

[High Dyke]

What happens in the case of RRB services already advertised for engineering works if (say) signalling staff are on strike but not traincrew? No one is actually strikebreaking…
Thus is of course assuming the RRB is worth running on its own (say it’s a busy branch line out in its entirety).

I could be wrong, but the engineering work would be preplanned and replacement road transport as part of the arrangements. That would probably operate as industrial action, in that context, would be irrelevant.

 

[43066]

Out of interest, why not?

Thinking of today’s Greater Anglia strike, where only drivers have walked out, leaving stations staffed.

Difficult (for which read impossible) to arrange sufficient numbers of buses for coverage of an entire network. There’s also a big shortage of bus drivers currently, as I understand it!

It’s a completely different kettle of fish to arranging cover for engineering work, which takes place in specific areas and is planned weeks or months in advance.

 

[D821]

Merseyrail ran rail replacement buses during the strike, though their drivers weren't on strike and the network was closed due to lack of NR cover.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Out of interest, why not?

Thinking of today’s Greater Anglia strike, where only drivers have walked out, leaving stations staffed.

Where are you going to get the buses and drivers from?
There isn't a magical rail replacement bus tree

 

[jamesst]

Merseyrail ran rail replacement buses during the strike, though their drivers weren't on strike and the network was closed due to lack of NR cover.

Not on the actual strike days they didn't.
They did the following morning when there was a late start up.

 

[omnicity4659]

Tyne and Wear Metro ran replacement buses between Pelaw and South Hylton on Saturday 25th to cover for engineering works.

They said it wasn't possible to provide buses on the Tuesday and Thursday, which is probably true as they didn't have anyone contracted to run the 'preplanned' service on the Saturday until a few days before, having to go around various bus companies asking if they could help!

 

[Edsmith]

Out of interest, why not?

Thinking of today’s Greater Anglia strike, where only drivers have walked out, leaving stations staffed.

I don't think it's illegal as someone suggested, extra buses were running during the recent two day Tramlink strike for example, but where are the required amount of buses and drivers going to come from? A lot of bus and coach operators are struggling for drivers as it is post covid.

 

[choochoochoo]

Given TOCs get 2 weeks notice, I'm sure they could get a few buses running replacement service. I know plenty of drivers who'd have happily done the overtime.

And if Grant Shapps and the government really cared about students missing exams, or patients not being able to get to appointments, then perhaps they could dip their hands in their pockets to pay for it ?

 

[6Gman]

Given TOCs get 2 weeks notice, I'm sure they could get a few buses running replacement service. I know plenty of drivers who'd have happily done the overtime.

And if Grant Shapps and the government really cared about students missing exams, or patients not being able to get to appointments, then perhaps they could dip their hands in their pockets to pay for it ?

"A few buses" would have been a bigger problem than no buses. Give the impression people should travel, 500 turn up, and you've got a 57-seater . . . (Or two, or three)

Far better for the relatively few schools who have significant numbers who commute in by rail to be prioritised for any buses that could be sourced.

 

[choochoochoo]

You're right, they demand would have exceeded the capacity if everyone had used RRBs

But for those who really needed to travel, could they have been prioritised onto RRBs instead of having Grant Shapps pretending they were completely left helpless.

A lot can be organised with 2 weeks notice, if you have competent people doing the organising.

 

[3rd rail land]

You're right, they demand would have exceeded the capacity if everyone had used RRBs

But for those who really needed to travel, could they have been prioritised onto RRBs instead of having Grant Shapps pretending they were completely left helpless.

A lot can be organised with 2 weeks notice, if you have competent people doing the organising.

How would it be determined who should be prioritised for a seat on a RRB? Once it had been decided who should be prioritised is the driver then expected to check off names like National Express or Megabus drivers check passengers tickets before they board?

In reality what would happen is far too many people would turn up for the available capacity and then chaos would ensue, which the driver would then have to deal with which wouldn't be fair on them. As has already been said the best option would be to use RRBs to get kids to school.

 

[Birmingham]

I noticed CrossCountry added some rail replacement buses between Birmingham and Bristol (a line which was not signalled) during the recent strikes, on the strike days. These were added at very short notice (perhaps on the day by control?).

 

[choochoochoo]

How would it be determined who should be prioritised for a seat on a RRB? Once it had been decided who should be prioritised is the driver then expected to check off names like National Express or Megabus drivers check passengers tickets before they board?

In reality what would happen is far too many people would turn up for the available capacity and then chaos would ensue, which the driver would then have to deal with which wouldn't be fair on them. As has already been said the best option would be to use RRBs to get kids to school.

It would require some form of checks, but it says a lot about our society if general public decide their need is greater than those who genuinely need to get to hospital/school.

But if Grant Shapps and the government really cared about the vulnerable and the kids with exams they'd have arranged some transport. Instead they tried to make the RMT look like the villain.

 

[6Gman]

It would require some form of checks, but it says a lot about our society if general public decide their need is greater than those who genuinely need to get to hospital/school.

But if Grant Shapps and the government really cared about the vulnerable and the kids with exams they'd have arranged some transport. Instead they tried to make the RMT look like the villain.

As far as the schools and colleges are concerned I think the staff of those institutions and/or the relevant local authorities are far better placed to sort alternative arrangements than Grant Shapps.

For hospitals I think getting staff in is more of an issue than patients and again much better sorted locally rather than nationally.

 

[3rd rail land]

It would require some form of checks, but it says a lot about our society if general public decide their need is greater than those who genuinely need to get to hospital/school.

But if Grant Shapps and the government really cared about the vulnerable and the kids with exams they'd have arranged some transport. Instead they tried to make the RMT look like the villain.

I'll agree that they should have made arrangements to ensure kids got to school, even if it meant giving money to local councils to get suitable transport arranged. However conducting checks to see who has the greatest need for RRBs is totally impractical. The DfT won't have the manpower to do something like that, especially at 2 weeks notice. The only practical option was to ask people not to travel if at all possible.

 

[choochoochoo]

For sure the DfT/Shapps couldn't organise it, but if the government were truly concerned they could have told NHS Trusts/Schools to make the necessary arrangements and they'd pick up the tab.

 

[D821]

Not on the actual strike days they didn't.
They did the following morning when there was a late start up.

Ah, I see. Lucky I decided to wfh and not try and catch a non-existent bus, then!

 

[johntea]

I noticed during the recent strikes that the Castleford - Huddersfield rail replacement service still seemed to be running according to the timetables (a bit of an oddity of a service as the actual train service was scrapped at least a year ago with no plans to return yet they still run this bus service in the timetable for some unknown reason!)

 

[onlinespotting]

The service bus in operation between Stoke on Trent and Stone ran (via Wedgwood and Barlaston) however this is a service bus which runs in lieu of the Wedgwood Barlaston (prev Norton bridge) train and has run for a number of years

There was also the odd random rail replacement bus between stoke and Stafford - I couldn’t work out what this was connecting to or if it had been elsewhere before Stoke en route to Stafford

 

[galwhv69]

What happens in the case of RRB services already advertised for engineering works if (say) signalling staff are on strike but not traincrew? No one is actually strikebreaking…
Thus is of course assuming the RRB is worth running on its own (say it’s a busy branch line out in its entirety).

Abellio cancelled all their rail replacements on the 25th
Interestingly on the 25th, engineering works were meant to take place between Purley & Redhill, however were cancelled due to the strikes. GTR were running a limited service along that line on the day, however they didn't cancel the rail replacements booked, resulting in rail replacement buses running alongside trains on a strike day. No passengers on the buses unsurprisingly

 

[Spet0789]

Presumably because they simply can’t be resourced reliably for the entire area and GA are running an incredibly sparse service (about 10% of trains). The buses would get outrageously overcrowded and would be a logistical, expensive nightmare to coordinate across the whole network.

This strike was on a Saturday. If they can provide RRB to cover engineering works, why not strikes?

It wouldn’t constitute strike-breaking… you’re not bringing in bus drivers to drive trains.

Now there’s an idea… surely someone who can manage faster-slower AND lefty-righty can manage just faster-slower with a bit of training. Tin hat on!

 

[Horizon22]

This strike was on a Saturday. If they can provide RRB to cover engineering works, why not strikes?

It wouldn’t constitute strike-breaking… you’re not bringing in bus drivers to drive trains.

Now there’s an idea… surely someone who can manage faster-slower AND lefty-righty can manage just faster-slower with a bit of training. Tin hat on!

Because RRBs are normally brought in for a a) specific route, b) agreed well in advance c) planned to a a specific timetable. Trying to source orders of magnitude more buses with less advance warning is practically impossible.

 

[Bertie the bus]

This strike was on a Saturday. If they can provide RRB to cover engineering works, why not strikes?

It wouldn’t constitute strike-breaking… you’re not bringing in bus drivers to drive trains.

Now there’s an idea… surely someone who can manage faster-slower AND lefty-righty can manage just faster-slower with a bit of training. Tin hat on!

Because it costs money. TOCs run RRBs during engineering work because Network Rail pay.

 

[TravelDream]

Don't forget there's currently a shortage of bus drivers making running large-scale RRB services more difficult.

Some operators are very good at getting ticket acceptance on local buses as well as running replacements.

 

[jamesst]

To be fair in my area Arriva have the contract for replacement buses. I know during a previous rail strike the arriva drivers made it very clear they wouldn't be covering any train routes on strike days