Rail replacement washout on SWR

[philthetube]

That's fairly straightforward to answer. The entire bus industry, in common with many other industries, is experiencing a serious labour shortage at present. In that situation, operators of local bus services are (sensibly) prioritising their regular scheduled commitments, which is why you don't see the likes of Stagecoach or First covering rail to anything like the extent they did historically. That in turn puts more pressure on the independent sector, but that sector draws heavily on casuals for this kind of work, and my observation is that the pandemic and the requirements for shielding led large numbers of especially older semi-retired casuals to decide it was a good time to hang up their licence, never to return.

This is also because of the increased cost of retaining a licence, medicals have always been an issue but there is also the cost of a CPC licence, which is not excessive but also involves a week of training, which can be done as a day every year, however both these things cause cut off dates where drivers may decide to hang up their licences.

While not arguing about the medical one does wonder if it is needed for a bus driver to spend time doing extra training on a job they have been doing for many years.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is also because of the increased cost of retaining a licence, medicals have always been an issue but there is also the cost of a CPC licence, which is not excessive but also involves a week of training, which can be done as a day every year, however both these things cause cut off dates where drivers may decide to hang up their licences.

Driver CPC is such an utter waste of space that it's interesting to see it's not just that but also negative. The Government would do well to abolish it, reducing the barrier to casuals re-entering the market.

It had potential if it had allowed for e.g. repeated poor customer service or inconsiderate (but not illegal) driving to apply black marks to it, with a certain number requiring a retrain and retest, but as it is you can sit through it and ignore it and still "pass" - there is no assessment other than as part of the initial driving test.

 

[boiledbeans2]

I've been on many rail replacement buses in the Woking/Guildford area. From a Woking to Winchester journey down the M3 to an all stops Guildford - Clapham Junction via Cobham.

The RRBs in the last 2 months have become signifcantly worse in terms of cancellations. Last weekend (4th September) had a similar blockade down to Havant and the Guildford area was full of cancelled buses as well.

On a positive note, it's good that SWR are listing cancelled buses on the apps. It probably makes delay repay easier. Earlier this year, you would just be stood waiting, hoping that the bus is still running but late.

 

[northwichcat]

if there is now such a shortage of drivers to run replacement bus services perhaps it’s best to postpone all non-emergency engineering works until this problem is sorted…

There's been a bus driver shortage since Brexit, as many got tempted by higher wages to drive HGVs, following a HGV driver shortage caused by Brexit.

It's likely to be more noticeable now as train driver issues are causing more strain on bus company resources.

The solution is for the train operators to sort out their mess, so they only require RRBs during infrastructure defects or scheduled engineering works.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Both things are in fact true. A number of 'cancelled' diagrams did run - I was one of them, [...]

Yes, both are in fact true. Some cancelled services were run, while other non-cancelled services just never turned up.

For example, last weekend (4th Sep), I saw an instance where a Guildford - Woking bus never turned up. There was an RA2 bus which departed at a similar time, and the driver of that bus announced that anyone going to Woking should get on (probably an agreed acceptance).

On the other hand, this weekend (11th Sep), the first Guildford - Gatwick bus at 0648 never turned up. There was a group of people at the station (with luggage in tow) who got off the GWR Reading-Guildford train and were waiting from 0640 to at least 0715 with no bus. I don't know what happened after that as I got on the 0711 Guildford to Weybridge, which became the first bus on that route since the preceding buses were all cancelled.

The driver of that bus was complaining to the Guildford bus coordinator that he didn't have enough breaks. The Guildford bus coordinator asked him to talk the coordinator at Weybridge.

Anyway, at Woking a lot of people boarded, with the station staff telling the driver, "You're the first bus of the day!"

At Weybridge, the terminus, there was a mob. They saw our bus turning into the station carpark and then proceeded to follow it, a small scale version of the Euston-scrum. Our bus driver stopped at the opposite end of the carpark to avoid the mob. As we were all alighting from the bus as it was the terminus, the angry mob was gathering at the front door of the bus. After all of us alighted, the driver said "I have break!" 1 or 2 guys replied, "No! No break!" and tried to board the bus anyway. I'm sure they had been waiting for ages at Weybridge. I don't know what happened after that as I was hurrying for the connecting train.

 

[philthetube]

Driver CPC is such an utter waste of space that it's interesting to see it's not just that but also negative. The Government would do well to abolish it, reducing the barrier to casuals re-entering the market.

It had potential if it had allowed for e.g. repeated poor customer service or inconsiderate (but not illegal) driving to apply black marks to it, with a certain number requiring a retrain and retest, but as it is you can sit through it and ignore it and still "pass" - there is no assessment other than as part of the initial driving test.

Get rid of CPC and make medicals cheap for licence holders and this would make a difference.

CPC and medicals have to be paid for with taxed income and it takes quite a few hours work to get a return on them.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Anyway, my advice for anyone using the SWR replacement buses is to board at the large stations if possible, such as Guildford, Woking, Surbiton, Staines, etc.

If you're boarding at an unstaffed station in the middle of nowhere on the New Guildford Line/Chertsey Loop/North Downs Line, good luck.

I've seen buses leaving early, stopping at the wrong location (if it's the station entrance or bus stop on the main road), or even bypassing the station completely (as they driver forgot or got lost).

 

[Horizon22]

I posted about this issue last year. Seems like its not getting much better in certain places.

This is also exactly why there's no widespread bus coverage (forgetting for a minute the huge logistical nightmare) during "Do Not Travel" episodes as it simply cannot be mustered and relied upon.

 

[2HAP]

OK, here's a radical suggestion.

Why don't the TOCs purchase a fleet of buses / coaches, and employ their own drivers for RRBs?

 

[northwichcat]

Why don't the TOCs purchase a fleet of buses / coaches, and employ their own drivers for RRBs?

You mean the likes of First, Arriva and Stagecoach running buses under one of their brand names?

 

[GusB]

OK, here's a radical suggestion.

Why don't the TOCs purchase a fleet of buses / coaches, and employ their own drivers for RRBs?

You would have resources sitting around when not needed and drivers on the payroll who would be twiddling their thumbs.

You could go down the zero-hour contract route, but drivers who need to make a living will be looking elsewhere for work and they will prioritise whatever work is most reliable and easier to get to.

There is no silver bullet to this situation, other than better pay and conditions, and perhaps lowering the barriers to entry; PCV training is expensive, and while some companies will pay for this, there is sometimes a training bond that needs to be repaid if they leave the company in a certain amount of time.

 

[RJ]

OK, here's a radical suggestion.

Why don't the TOCs purchase a fleet of buses / coaches, and employ their own drivers for RRBs?

There isn’t enough work to make that sustainable.

The land the buses are parked on has to be paid for. Buses have to be inspected periodically, wear, tear and damage repaired. They have to be cleaned inside and out frequently and refurbishing/repainting every few years. Each vehicle needs to be insured - bearing in mind the words rail replacement are liable to make insurers want to slam the phone down. Most prefer a mixed portfolio of work.

Then you need skilled mechanics, workshop services, mobile recovery and a whole load of staff to oversee the operations. Labour is a huge outgoing.

You also need drivers. Reliable people who have the ability to learn a variety routes, drive them competently and respect the timetable (not leave pick up points early) and handle road closures without needing enhanced levels of supervision. Those drivers also need periodic CPC training. Staff need managing and competent Transport Managers are also required.

Then a budget is required if and when things go wrong.

To pay for all of that, almost all of the buses need to be out on the road earning decent money at least four days a week.

Most parts of the country, rail replacement is only on one day a week. There are lines which regularly close early on weekdays but there is enough resource to cover this. Rail replacement work is unstable in the sense that weekend closures move around on a weekly basis with wildly varying numbers of buses required. The staff and fleet need to be mobile - having to drive dozens of miles to get to the closure limits costs £££s and eats into drivers hours.

There are occasionally blockades, but not frequently enough to warrant an entire fleet of buses to be owned just to cover them.

The most logical solution is what happens now - to utilise the spare resource that operators have. The issue isn’t a lack of buses - it’s a shortage of people available to drive them and any new operation that sets up probably won’t increase the net number of available drivers - a lot of casual labour just moves around and training up new people is a slow, expensive process which doesn’t necessarily lead to them sticking around.

To keep good people, regular work needs to be provided to keep putting food on the table. Go-Ahead London for instance are the primary supplier for Southern and Southeastern. They employ an army of dedicated rail replacement drivers and provide them with work every single weekend, even if it means sending them to Littlehampton, Eastbourne or Hastings with red buses. Contractors get what isn’t covered but the available work fluctuates which then means they can’t promise their drivers weekly work. If the drivers can’t rely on stable work they’ll go elsewhere on their weekends. If it’s busy then the contractors will subcontract.

First don’t operate many buses around here so they create the driver duties then get their approved operators to resource them. Subcontracting is banned.

TfL tender out rail replacement work - the operator creates the duties which keeps PVRs down to as little as they need to be. However some weekends there is an almighty requirement for buses which means subcontractors have to be utilised.

In all cases though driver shortages means work goes uncovered.

 

[winks]

Glad this weekends engineering work has been cancelled wholesale too !

Phew !

 

[Craig1122]

Anyway, my advice for anyone using the SWR replacement buses is to board at the large stations if possible, such as Guildford, Woking, Surbiton, Staines, etc.

If you're boarding at an unstaffed station in the middle of nowhere on the New Guildford Line/Chertsey Loop/North Downs Line, good luck.

I've seen buses leaving early, stopping at the wrong location (if it's the station entrance or bus stop on the main road), or even bypassing the station completely (as they driver forgot or got lost).

Thing is none of these problems are new. I can remember being on a BR era RRB when the driver asked "does anyone know where the station is?". It's an issue the industry has largely ignored, presumably because most people will alter their travel plans if there is bus replacement. Some have made efforts, like Southeastern putting up permanent bus stops for RRB.

As an aside SWR are diverting Hounslow loop trains from Weybridge to Windsor for the funeral. Previously when this has happened Chertsey & Addlestone then had to suffer bus replacement. I notice this time it's a train shuttle from Virginia Water to Weybridge, not ideal but a huge improvement on buses. I wonder if this has been driven in part by the driver shortage?

 

[30907]

As an aside SWR are diverting Hounslow loop trains from Weybridge to Windsor for the funeral. Previously when this has happened Chertsey & Addlestone then had to suffer bus replacement. I notice this time it's a train shuttle from Virginia Water to Weybridge, not ideal but a huge improvement on buses. I wonder if this has been driven in part by the driver shortage?

Or perhaps they have been given a steer from On High to pull out all the stops (metaphorically!)?

 

[boiledbeans2]

Today, again a large number of cancelled buses on SWR, with a block from Basingstoke to Woking to Guildford.

The related GWR Guildford - Reading bus situation is so severe, that it's mentioned on the NR disruptions page.

Find details of current incidents | National Rail

A portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Northbound - a fast bus every 2 hours.
Southbound - a stopping bus every 2 hours.

Copying and pasting here before it disappears:

Disruption to rail replacement bus services between Reading and Guildford today

A shortage of available bus drivers between Reading and Guildford means that fewer replacement services are able to run than originally planned.

As a result of this, only one bus will run every two hours in each direction between these stations.

Customer Advice:
Due to a shortage of available bus drivers, an extremely limited rail replacement service will run between Reading and Guildford. Please consider using alternative routes or travel on a different day.

• One bus every two hours (between 07:56 - 20:12) will run from Reading to Guildford stopping at all stations (southbound).
• One bus every two hours (between 10:18 - 18:18 as well as at 22:08) will run from Guildford to Reading running non-stop.

A limited number of standby buses and taxis will also be available.

You may also use your ticket on the following services at no extra cost:

• South Western Railway services between Reading and Guildford via Ascot.

Alternative routes:

Reading - Guildford
Travel via Ascot using trains between Reading and Ascot and between Ascot and Guildford (Journey time – 1 hour 40 minutes).

Reading - Wokingham
South Western Railway trains can run as normal.

Ash - Guildford
South Western Railway trains can run as normal.

Reading to Blackwater / Farnborough North / North Camp / Ash / Guildford
Travel via Ascot using South Western Railway trains between Reading and Ascot and trains between Ascot and Camberley (for Blackwater), Frimley (for Farnborough North), Ash Vale (for North Camp), Ash and Guildford.

Guildford to North Camp / Farnborough North / Blackwater
Travel via Aldershot using direct South Western Railway trains between Guildford and Ash Vale (for North Camp), Frimley (for Farnborough North) and Camberley (for Blackwater).

Bracknell to Sandhurst
You may travel on South Western Railway services to Bracknell and change for the local Thames Valley Bus 194 between Bracknell Bus Station and Camberley Town Centre via Great Hollands, Crowthorne, Sandhurst.

 

[Bigfoot]

This time it's a train shuttle from Virginia Water to Weybridge, not ideal but a huge improvement on buses. I wonder if this has been driven in part by the driver shortage?

Or perhaps they have been given a steer from On High to pull out all the stops (metaphorically!)?

Possibly because of wanting to pull out all the stops, but also down to the pretty new signalling and points as part of the Feltham resignalling programme to enable easy turnbacks at Virginia Water.

 

[fgwrich]

Today, again a large number of cancelled buses on SWR, with a block from Basingstoke to Woking to Guildford.

The related GWR Guildford - Reading bus situation is so severe, that it's mentioned on the NR disruptions page.

Find details of current incidents | National Rail

A portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Northbound - a fast bus every 2 hours.
Southbound - a stopping bus every 2 hours.

Copying and pasting here before it disappears:

Very much caught up in this tonight. SWR initially recommend I went via Reading and caught a service back from there, except they seem to finish around 21:38 (which ran late), so travel via Guildford instead. Seems one bus didn’t wait so we lost our connection, the following and final (22:47) was then cancelled. Thankfully SWR have put us up in Taxis instead, but it all seems something another disappointing day in SWR land.

 

[[.n]]

OK, here's a radical suggestion.

Why don't the TOCs purchase a fleet of buses / coaches, and employ their own drivers for RRBs?

Ironically when SWR was SWT, I know they had at least one bus (having travelled on it) that was in full SWT livery

 

[Goldfish62]

Ironically when SWR was SWT, I know they had at least one bus (having travelled on it) that was in full SWT livery

Those buses were owned and operated by Stagecoach Hants and Surrey.

 

[nlogax]

If my recent RRB experiences have been anything to go by it's obvious that SWR have been struggling. Sometimes feast, sometimes famine. For every plush double-decker with USB charging I've been on there has also been a corresponding trip on what appears to be a BA crew bus borrowed from Heathrow.

 

[Goldfish62]

If my recent RRB experiences have been anything to go by it's obvious that SWR have been struggling. Sometimes feast, sometimes famine. For every plush double-decker with USB charging I've been on there has also been a corresponding trip on what appears to be a BA crew bus borrowed from Heathrow.

And it's not only SWR, it's right throughout the country.

 

[jackot]

If my recent RRB experiences have been anything to go by it's obvious that SWR have been struggling. Sometimes feast, sometimes famine. For every plush double-decker with USB charging I've been on there has also been a corresponding trip on what appears to be a BA crew bus borrowed from Heathrow.

I saw one of these on the road a while back saying 'rail replacement bus', well away from Heathrow or Gatwick, and thought I was seeing things! Obviously not then!

 

[fgwrich]

Ironically when SWR was SWT, I know they had at least one bus (having travelled on it) that was in full SWT livery

Those buses were owned and operated by Stagecoach Hants and Surrey.

Not quite, while most rail replacement buses were indeed provided from the local Stagecoach Opcos, there was one Alexander PS owned by Morton’s Travel, which was painted into a sort of hybrid SWT / EMT livery.

 

[Goldfish62]

Not quite, while most rail replacement buses were indeed provided from the local Stagecoach Opcos, there was one Alexander PS owned by Morton’s Travel, which was painted into a sort of hybrid SWT / EMT livery.

Ah yes, I remember that one.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Very much caught up in this tonight. SWR initially recommend I went via Reading and caught a service back from there, except they seem to finish around 21:38 (which ran late), so travel via Guildford instead. Seems one bus didn’t wait so we lost our connection, the following and final (22:47) was then cancelled. Thankfully SWR have put us up in Taxis instead, but it all seems something another disappointing day in SWR land.

May I ask where you were travelling from and to? And which stations were the 21:38 and 22:47?

 

[Bill Badger]

Not looking good from Farnborough today. Sadly may need to change plan today and spend the time looking to buy a car instead

 

[fgwrich]

May I ask where you were travelling from and to? And which stations were the 21:38 and 22:47?

I was travelling back from Scotland to Basingstoke, so didn’t arrive into Kings Cross until around 21:00. Reading was my first and initial thought, but I wouldn’t have been able to make it across for the 21:38. So, following the SWR and NRE apps, travelled down to Guildford where I should have connected with a bus (which according to station staff, didn’t wait). We were then informed the next one would be the 22:47, which didn’t turn up, leading to SWR staff putting us into taxis instead. The other option put out by SWR was to take a stopping service to Weybridge, then take an all stations bus from there (total journey time of 2hr 50!) - with Guildford showing as the fastest, I went for that.

 

[bakerstreet]

Not looking good from Farnborough today. Sadly may need to change plan today and spend the time looking to buy a car instead

That does look bad, and awful for those who’ve made plans.
What a mess. SWML is becoming a no go during engineering at the moment.

 

[jackot]

That does look bad, and awful for those who’ve made plans.
What a mess. SWML is becoming a no go during engineering at the moment.

100%. I was planning to head to Bournemouth this weekend, but glad I didn't take the chance. Next Saturday XC is being diverted via Salisbury, and some SWRs are going via Havant and Fareham, whilst others are terminating at Winchester, There are strikes next Saturday, and then on Sunday XC will be via Guildford through the North Downs, Portsmouth Direct and West Coastway lines, which adds on well over an hour to journey times and seems to often go horribly wrong, and again many SWR services go via Havant and Fareham.

My advice would be to stay well away as well, and practically forget about the promise of buses. From my experience the XC buses seem to be more reliable, compared to SWRs woeful 'service'.