Railcard discount after midnight

[kristiang85]

Although the wording of the specific ticket restriction is relevant here. If it is "not valid for travel before 09:30" then it isn't valid at 02:00, even if a ticket purchased before midnight is valid on the following day to 04:29.

But shouldn't the previous day stop at the designated "last service" and the next day start at the designated "first service". We don't operate 24 hour trains, so this should be an easy - and fair - distinction.

 

[Deerfold]

But shouldn't the previous day stop at the designated "last service" and the next day start at the designated "first service". We don't operate 24 hour trains, so this should be an easy - and fair - distinction.

There's not always a designated First and Last service, especially not between London and Reading - and on Thameslink where 24 hour trains do operate (at least 6 days a week) - and we do have other 24 hour services. If you start designating, someone is going to lose out. Why is having days that go from 0001 to 0430 on day+1 a problem?

 

[jawr256]

Although the wording of the specific ticket restriction is relevant here. If it is "not valid for travel before 09:30" then it isn't valid at 02:00, even if a ticket purchased before midnight is valid on the following day to 04:29.

Without checking other tickets around London, for the avoidance of any doubt the ticket relevant to the OP (http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=RDG&dest=HAY&grpo=0403&tkt=CDR) carries the O9 restriction, and the published text on National Rail is clear:

Not valid for travel between 04.30 and 09.30 ...

The unpublished restrictions on brfares agree that the ticket is valid before 04:30, though I note that the unpublished summary is "VALID AFTER 0930 MON-FRI" - I understand these summaries can be displayed by ticket machines so this could be misleading to early morning travellers like the OP - if the ticket were offered at all.

 

[kristiang85]

There's not always a designated First and Last service, especially not between London and Reading - and on Thameslink where 24 hour trains do operate (at least 6 days a week) - and we do have other 24 hour services. If you start designating, someone is going to lose out. Why is having days that go from 0001 to 0430 on day+1 a problem?

Oh I didn't know Thameslink was 24hr! Every day is a school day and all that.

I think 4am is a useful demarcation of one day to another, though. The peak time fares/restrictions ("not valid before 09:30") are designed to help alleviate overcrowding on peak services - and given most people will not be travelling to work at 2am, then it seems ridiculous to make someone making a journey at that time pay a peak fare.

 

[Deerfold]

Oh I didn't know Thameslink was 24hr! Every day is a school day and all that.

I think 4am is a useful demarcation of one day to another, though. The peak time fares/restrictions ("not valid before 09:30") are designed to help alleviate overcrowding on peak services - and given most people will not be travelling to work at 2am, then it seems ridiculous to make someone making a journey at that time pay a peak fare.

Boarding at 0400 or arriving at 0400? Why not the 0430 we have now (which aligns with Oyster which does run from 0430 to 0430)?

If you catch the 0340 service from York to Huddersfield that's obviously off peak. Is it peak if you get on at Leeds at 0405 to go to Huddersfield?
How about if you're staying on it as far as Manchester Airport at 0613?

 

[kristiang85]

Boarding at 0400 or arriving at 0400? Why not the 0430 we have now (which aligns with Oyster which does run from 0430 to 0430)?

If you catch the 0340 service from York to Huddersfield that's obviously off peak. Is it peak if you get on at Leeds at 0405 to go to Huddersfield?
How about if you're staying on it as far as Manchester Airport at 0613?

As was said, there does need to be a cutoff somewhere, and someone will lose out - but if it was defined properly there would be less aggro over it.

Although personally I think there should be a set time period for peak in the mornings (i.e. 0600-0930), rather than a simple "Invalid before 0930".

 

[Haywain]

In a case such as this I think the OP would be well advised to use a website to buy the tickets, as they seem to enforce the time restrictions (and railcard discounts) appropriately.

 

[Deerfold]

As was said, there does need to be a cutoff somewhere, and someone will lose out - but if it was defined properly there would be less aggro over it.

And as was asked, is that a cutoff for boarding time or time you finish your journey?

Although personally I think there should be a set time period for peak in the mornings (i.e. 0600-0930), rather than a simple "Invalid before 0930".

In this case there is. However the ticket machine seems to ignore it.

 

[Joe Paxton]

In a case such as this I think the OP would be well advised to use a website to buy the tickets, as they seem to enforce the time restrictions (and railcard discounts) appropriately.

Or (apologies if I'm stating the beeding obvious) an app on their smartphone.

I think this issue is pretty widespread across the industry, and so doesn't just affect one TOC or one type of TVM. For all the indignation that might be expressed about it on here, I wouldn't expect anything to change fast.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On many TVMs you could force it to issue by selecting "ticket for the future" and selecting the same day and a time well into the regular off peak. Not every TVM offers that, though.

 

[Mag_seven]

I am also in agreement that misleading customers into overpaying due to deficiencies in the ticket machine software is very dodgy practice and likely on shaky legal grounds.

Misselling?

 

[Gathursty]

The unpublished restrictions on brfares agree that the ticket is valid before 04:30, though I note that the unpublished summary is "VALID AFTER 0930 MON-FRI" - I understand these summaries can be displayed by ticket machines so this could be misleading to early morning travellers like the OP - if the ticket were offered at all.

Indeed. I saw on the ticket machine - VALID AFTER 0930 MON-FRI - hence my doubt. If I'd seen the full restriction on the screen, I'd obviously have put my discount on. There was room on the screen for the full restriction to be typed out and without the font needing to be reduced.