Railcard discount before 10am: can I dispute this?

[ehsan]

Hi there. Yesterday I was on the train when a ticket inspector had stopped me to check my ticket at 8:30am. He then said why I got my ticket cheaper as tickets with a railcard cost around £12. I said I bought an anytime day return ticket but for 10am but I used it at 8:30am earlier. I bought this ticket before I left my house at 7:40am. He said that I was potentially doing fraud and a letter would be coming in my post a few days to weeks from now, that I was breaking terms and conditions. I did purchase the correct ticket from Finsbury to Herts for £10.45. I even contacted train line about the situation and they said that you can use the ticket earlier since it’s the same day you travelled but you can travel at any time with this ticket. My mind is in confusion. Am I in the wrong and if so, what could the fine be?




I just wanted to add that I’ve been doing this for 3 months and ticket inspectors always check my tickets and say that it’s fine as I had my rail card and correct ticket. Just yesterdays ticket inspector put my mind in so much confusion.

 

[CarrotPie]

Hi there. Yesterday I was on the train when a ticket inspector had stopped me to check my ticket at 8:30am. He then said why I got my ticket cheaper as tickets with a railcard cost around £12. I said I bought an anytime day return ticket but for 10am but I used it at 8:30am earlier. I bought this ticket before I left my house at 7:40am. He said that I was potentially doing fraud and a letter would be coming in my post a few days to weeks from now, that I was breaking terms and conditions. I did purchase the correct ticket from Finsbury to Herts for £10.45. I even contacted train line about the situation and they said that you can use the ticket earlier since it’s the same day you travelled but you can travel at any time with this ticket. My mind is in confusion. Am I in the wrong and if so, what could the fine be?




I just wanted to add that I’ve been doing this for 3 months and ticket inspectors always check my tickets and say that it’s fine as I had my rail card and correct ticket. Just yesterdays ticket inspector put my mind in so much confusion.

Some railcards (eg 16-25) have the following restriction (more info here):

You can travel anytime but a minimum fare of £12 applies to all journeys made between 4:30am and 9:59am, Monday to Friday (excludes public holidays and July and August).

 

[Snow1964]

It sounds like you tried to break the minimum £12 rule that is a condition of the railcard before the off peak time.

The ticket you purchased was presumably chosen as only available after 10am as that allowed the one third off without the £12 minimum.

You basically tried to find a way around the rules because the ticket vendor correctly wouldn't sell the discounted ticket for early morning train.

If a previous ticket inspector said it was ok, they clearly didn't do their check properly. But that doesn't make it right

 

[yorkie]

Hi there. Yesterday I was on the train when a ticket inspector had stopped me to check my ticket at 8:30am. He then said why I got my ticket cheaper as tickets with a railcard cost around £12. I said I bought an anytime day return ticket but for 10am but I used it at 8:30am earlier. I bought this ticket before I left my house at 7:40am. He said that I was potentially doing fraud and a letter would be coming in my post a few days to weeks from now, that I was breaking terms and conditions. I did purchase the correct ticket from Finsbury to Herts for £10.45. I even contacted train line about the situation and they said that you can use the ticket earlier since it’s the same day you travelled but you can travel at any time with this ticket. My mind is in confusion. Am I in the wrong and if so, what could the fine be?




I just wanted to add that I’ve been doing this for 3 months and ticket inspectors always check my tickets and say that it’s fine as I had my rail card and correct ticket. Just yesterdays ticket inspector put my mind in so much confusion.

You have to wait now to see what comes through the post. Until then it's difficult to advise as we don't know what the company will do

Did the inspector charge you for a new ticket or excess fare?

In theory you should only have been charged an excess, unless they suspect fraud in which case they should charge nothing and report the matter for possible prosecution.

The other inspectors were not correct to allow travel before 10am.

Do you have a recording of Trainline clearly stating that a 16-25 discounted ticket is valid for this journey?

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi there. Yesterday I was on the train when a ticket inspector had stopped me to check my ticket at 8:30am. He then said why I got my ticket cheaper as tickets with a railcard cost around £12. I said I bought an anytime day return ticket but for 10am but I used it at 8:30am earlier. I bought this ticket before I left my house at 7:40am. He said that I was potentially doing fraud and a letter would be coming in my post a few days to weeks from now, that I was breaking terms and conditions. I did purchase the correct ticket from Finsbury to Herts for £10.45. I even contacted train line about the situation and they said that you can use the ticket earlier since it’s the same day you travelled but you can travel at any time with this ticket. My mind is in confusion. Am I in the wrong and if so, what could the fine be?




I just wanted to add that I’ve been doing this for 3 months and ticket inspectors always check my tickets and say that it’s fine as I had my rail card and correct ticket. Just yesterdays ticket inspector put my mind in so much confusion.

Did you tell the inspector you’ve been doing this for three months?

 

[ehsan]

You have to wait now to see what comes through the post. Until then it's difficult to advise as we don't know what the company will do

Did the inspector charge you for a new ticket or excess fare?

In theory you should only have been charged an excess, unless they suspect fraud in which case they should charge nothing and report the matter for possible prosecution.

The other inspectors were not correct to allow travel before 10am.

Do you have a recording of Trainline clearly stating that a 16-25 discounted ticket is valid for this journey?

Thank you for your reply!

I wasn’t charged anything. I was given a Govia Thameslink Railway Witness Statement Receipt. Unfortunately I didn’t get a clear recording regarding the 16-25 railcard discounted ticket being valid. I do have this screenshot of my conversation about this situation with Trainline customer service in this screenshot attached.

Did you tell the inspector you’ve been doing this for three months?

Yes, I asked him why all the inspectors that have checked my ticket previously have said that’s fine to my ticket and railcard but this inspector said that he checks the nitty gritty when checking tickets.

 

[CarrotPie]

Thank you for your reply!

I wasn’t charged anything. I was given a Govia Thameslink Railway Witness Statement Receipt. Unfortunately I didn’t get a clear recording regarding the 16-25 railcard discounted ticket being valid. I do have this screenshot of my conversation about this situation with Trainline customer service in this screenshot attached.

That's some shoddy English in that attachment! I wonder if that has any bearing on this.

Yes, I asked him why all the inspectors that have checked my ticket previously have said that’s fine to my ticket and railcard but this inspector said that he checks the nitty gritty when checking tickets.

Don't they all?

 

[TB]

There is no mention of the railcard in your message to Trainline, so while they are correct in saying the ticket is valid (an undiscounted one would be), had you mentioned the railcard, they would (presumably) have mentioned the minimum fare. The validity of the ticket itselfis not affected, just the price you pay due to the restriction when using a railcard.

 

[Tevion539]

Thank you for your reply!

I wasn’t charged anything. I was given a Govia Thameslink Railway Witness Statement Receipt. Unfortunately I didn’t get a clear recording regarding the 16-25 railcard discounted ticket being valid. I do have this screenshot of my conversation about this situation with Trainline customer service in this screenshot attached.


Yes, I asked him why all the inspectors that have checked my ticket previously have said that’s fine to my ticket and railcard but this inspector said that he checks the nitty gritty when checking tickets.

I would disagree with trainline here and the inspector who challenged you is technically right. The only time the £12 minimum fare with the 16-25 Railcard doesn't apply is public holidays, weekends and through out July-August. It's also worth nothing if you have an "Advance Single" you can apply the discount regardless of the time. Even though you had an "Anytime" ticket, you had applied a discount that has its own sets of T&C's which you did not abide by.

As above, it's now down to the train operator as to what action to take.

 

[yorkie]

There is no mention of the railcard in your message to Trainline, so while they are correct in saying the ticket is valid (an undiscounted one would be), had you mentioned the railcard, they would (presumably) have mentioned the minimum fare. The validity of the ticket itselfis not affected, just the price you pay due to the restriction when using a railcard.

But they checked the booking reference, so they should have known.

Trainline are wrong, as were the previous inspectors.

However until we see the letter it's too early to say what might happen and nothing should be done until the letter is received.

So I suggest we pause this discussion until there is a further development.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There is no mention of the railcard in your message to Trainline, so while they are correct in saying the ticket is valid

They are incorrect, but they had access to the booking reference- and specifically referred to that booking reference- so knew (or should have known) about the railcard discount.

The OP should keep the letter from Trainline in case GTR threaten prosecution, as it will be useful evidence.