Railsail / Steam Packet Douglas return query

[Skymonster]

Sigh - why are things not easy?

I want to go to Douglas, Isle of Man departing Derby on 30th July ideally outward via Heysham Port (Manxman) and returnIng Sunday afternoon 4th August via Liverpool (Manaman).

Websites will give me an itinerary and a one-way fare for 30th July (Derby-Crewe-Lancaster-Heysham Port-Douglas), but try as I might - via NRE, Trainsplit, Avanti, TfW, et al - I can’t get a return itinerary and fare for any route, even coming back via Heysham. However, Steam Packet has a bookable Douglas-Liverpool on 4th August which arrives Liverpool at 17:45 and EMR has Advances to Derby from Lime Street around departing an hour, or two hours, later. So, why can no site offer me / sell me a ticket that includes both directions (i.e. a return)?

I understand that in an ideal world a Railsail return would be the best option as it can be used any valid train/route each direction, whereas buying an Advance for the return trains is a risk if Steam Packet is delayed. Booking a separate Steam Packet return and train (Advances) currently saves a little money over the Railsail fare, but in my mind not really enough to justify the risk.

So, how can I get a Railsail ticket that covers the dates in question - now? I’d really like to get the thing bought so that I can get confirmed reservations on the appropriate Steam Packet sailings, but I can’t find a rail website that will sell it to me. Despite my frustrations and inability to get the job done myself online, is it the sort of thing EMR ticket desk staff at Derby could sort [this week] over the counter?

Thanks in anticipation,

Skymonster

 

[lfc84]

Use TFW and select open return.
When you've booked phone the Isle of Man Steam Packet and they'll make the reservation on the ferry

 

[DarloRich]

Sigh - why are things not easy?

I gave up the last time I went to the IoM and just booked everything as separates. As a foot passenger it worked out cheaper which seemed odd.

 

[Skymonster]

Use TFW and select open return.
When you've booked phone the Isle of Man Steam Packet and they'll make the reservation on the ferry

Ah splendid @lfc84 - that worked perfectly in terms of vending the ticket I want. I didn’t realise that I could phone Steam Packet to get reservations: I though rail staff / systems needed to do that. But thank you: I can now go ahead and do what I need.

I gave up the last time I went to the IoM and just booked everything as separates. As a foot passenger it worked out cheaper which seemed odd.

Thanks @DarloRich. @lfc84 above provided a seemingly workable solution. I could indeed book train and Steam Packet separately, but the RailSail combo offers more choice and flexibility if delays occur for very little extra cost, even with the railcard discounts applied.

 

[DarloRich]

@lfc84 above provided a seemingly workable solution

I have noted that one down for future use

 

[janb]

Ah splendid @lfc84 - that worked perfectly in terms of vending the ticket I want. I didn’t realise that I could phone Steam Packet to get reservations: I though rail staff / systems needed to do that. But thank you: I can now go ahead and do what I need.

Yes, you (or member of staff in ticket office if booking at a station) would need to contact Steam Packet anyway to confirm reservations on the boats.

Once you have made your Sail & Rail booking online, please contact our reservations team at [email protected] or 01624 661661 and we will be pleased to confirm your ferry reservation.

The original issue caused by reservations for that boat on a Sunday on the rail systems side only being open as far as 7th July.

 

[Skymonster]

The original issue caused by reservations for that boat on a Sunday on the rail systems side only being open as far as 7th July.

Ah, that makes sense - even loco2 / RailEuope won’t sell me a SailRail return for the dates I need. But the TfW website dated outbound and open return offers the SailRail fare with railcard discount - I can presumably buy that (for ticket issue at my local station) and call Steam Packet myself once I’ve picked up the ticket.

 

[janb]

Ah, that makes sense - even loco2 / RailEuope won’t sell me a SailRail return for the dates I need. But the TfW website dated outbound and open return offers the SailRail fare with railcard discount - I can presumably buy that (for ticket issue at my local station) and call Steam Packet myself once I’ve picked up the ticket.

Yes. Note it would need to be the Low Saver Return as the Economy Return is not valid on Sundays between June and September.

 

[Skymonster]

Yes. Note it would need to be the Low Saver Return as the Economy Return is not valid on Sundays between June and September.

Thanks @janb - I got that bit figured!

 

[MrJeeves]

I can’t get a return itinerary and fare for any route, even coming back via Heysham.

Seems to work fine for me on TrainSplit Beta if you're returning on the Monday... It'll offer a split as it's cheaper, but you can press "Change ticket selection" and I get the choice of the Economy Return or the Low Saver Return tickets. I believe this is due to reservations not being available on the return sailing for some reason but can't confirm if that's the case or not (but would make sense as Avanti's booking horizon on weekends is only out until 6/7 July).



Anyway, the beta website also offers Open Returns, which you could use for this if you wanted.

TrainSplit

TrainSplit is a free service that makes it easy to find the cheapest train tickets for your journey.

beta.trainsplit.com

 

[Skymonster]

Thanks everyone for your help. The key to this was that the Steam Packet sailings for Sundays in August aren’t yet in rail systems - which is a ridiculous omission given those sailings are readily available to book direct with Steam Packet. However, choosing a mid-week outbound date (for which sailings are loaded) with an open return in this case resolves the issue as both TfW and Trainsplit will sell a Low Saver Return with a railcard discount. Now I just need to call Steam Packet to secure the reservations. I’m looking forward to sampling Manxman from Heysham on the way out, and Manannan on the return to Liverpool a few days later. I might even treat myself to the premium lounges when I contact Steam Packet later today, to ensure the voyages are really enjoyable comfortable. Manx Heritage Transport Festival here I come!

 

[SeanG]

Thanks everyone for your help. The key to this was that the Steam Packet sailings for Sundays in August aren’t yet in rail systems - which is a ridiculous omission given those sailings are readily available to book direct with Steam Packet. However, choosing a mid-week outbound date (for which sailings are loaded) with an open return in this case resolves the issue as both TfW and Trainsplit will sell a Low Saver Return with a railcard discount. Now I just need to call Steam Packet to secure the reservations. I’m looking forward to sampling Manxman from Heysham on the way out, and Manannan on the return to Liverpool a few days later. I might even treat myself to the premium lounges when I contact Steam Packet later today, to ensure the voyages are really enjoyable comfortable. Manx Heritage Transport Festival here I come!

A tip on the Manxman - the Niarbyl lounge is free to enter once the boat has left Heysham/Douglas with nobody checking for reservations etc. so I would recommend to not book this, and to just walk in.

Also, keep an eye on the sailing timings, they are often slightly altered at Heysham due to tides, so may not connect with the boat train. If your sailing is changes, give the steam packet a call and ask if they are laying on a minibus/taxi from Lancaster to the boat (they often do). If that doesn't happen then the boat is a 30 min walk from the end of the 2X bus route from Lancaster which would be a £2 fare

 

[Skymonster]

A tip on the Manxman - the Niarbyl lounge is free to enter once the boat has left Heysham/Douglas with nobody checking for reservations etc. so I would recommend to not book this, and to just walk in.

Also, keep an eye on the sailing timings, they are often slightly altered at Heysham due to tides, so may not connect with the boat train. If your sailing is changes, give the steam packet a call and ask if they are laying on a minibus/taxi from Lancaster to the boat (they often do). If that doesn't happen then the boat is a 30 min walk from the end of the 2X bus route from Lancaster which would be a £2 fare

Great tips @SeanG, thank you. I’ve already been looking at the train to Heysham on RTT and with it having been binned at least twice in the last week I have sufficient lack of trust in it that I’m reluctant rely on it. Indeed, I was beginning to shape my thinking into getting a train as far Morecambe earlier than necessary, maybe for lunch, and then stroll to Heysham Port - seems like it should only take 30 minutes.

 

[janb]

Great tips @SeanG, thank you. I’ve already been looking at the train to Heysham on RTT and with it having been binned at least twice in the last week I have sufficient lack of trust in it that I’m reluctant rely on it. Indeed, I was beginning to shape my thinking into getting a train as far Morecambe earlier than necessary, maybe for lunch, and then stroll to Heysham Port - seems like it should only take 30 minutes.

Yep, present lack of RDW agreement means Heysham Port train is always vulnerable, obviously an agreement in place from 1st June but the simultaneous overtime ban negates that so unless industrial relations are resolved it will remain vulnerable.

Morecambe to Heysham Port is roughly 4 miles so it would be a challenge to stroll that in 30 minutes, a brisk walk would be about an hour. The walk from Combermere Road bus stop that @SeanG mentions would be a 30 minute stroll, 15-20 if you are going at reasonable pace.

 

[Skymonster]

Thanks @janb - I hadn’t looked that carefully at walking from Morecambe to Heysham Port yet but it has been guiding my thinking given my reluctance to rely on the train for the last few miles. I don’t mind a four miles walk if its not raining so that may well be what I do on the day. I’ll almost certainly go as far as Morecambe earlier than really necessary and if the train is running on the day just jump on again (with a separate ticket if needs by as the RailSail officially doesn’t allow break of journey) with walking or maybe a taxi as backups if the heavens are open and the train isn’t running.

 

[AndrewE]

I was shocked to find how high the price of a priv return was when I rang to buy one, the woman pointed me at the online "offers" (i.e. price) which were maybe a quarter of the priv rate! Maybe booking engines pick up the theoretical full price and not the actual cost for the sailing?

The other thing to note is that you can ring the booking office thinking it is a normal UK STD call, but in fact it is an international call, although charged as a local call by BT!

 

[lfc84]

Sail & Rail Tickets to/from Isle of Man | Isle of Man Ferries

Save by booking inclusive Sail and Rail tickets with the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company. A single booking can take care of all your travel arrangements.

www.steam-packet.com

mentions loco2.com (rather than TFW and the others that allow DGS to be entered) and is also poorly written in my opinion but there's some info that may be useful

 

[philthetube]

Great tips @SeanG, thank you. I’ve already been looking at the train to Heysham on RTT and with it having been binned at least twice in the last week I have sufficient lack of trust in it that I’m reluctant rely on it. Indeed, I was beginning to shape my thinking into getting a train as far Morecambe earlier than necessary, maybe for lunch, and then stroll to Heysham Port - seems like it should only take 30 minutes.

The train is always replaced by a bus if needed, there are no issues with the connection., I did it twice last year.

Remember, when you get to Heysham you need to check in at the desk even though you have a ticket. you could pick this up at Morecombe if you wish.

Replacement bus would be displayed on describers in plenty of time.

There is a good pub on Lancaster station with outdoor seating and a selection of ales.

 

[Skymonster]

Sail & Rail Tickets to/from Isle of Man | Isle of Man Ferries

Save by booking inclusive Sail and Rail tickets with the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company. A single booking can take care of all your travel arrangements.

www.steam-packet.com

mentions loco2.com (rather than TFW and the others that allow DGS to be entered) and is also poorly written in my opinion but there's some info that may be useful

Yes, I’d seen that - but loco2 (which actually forwards to Rail Europe) won’t sell an open dated return, and with the sailing for the date I want to come back from Douglas not yet loaded into rail systems, that’s no use. Thankfully TfW and TrainSplit can both do the job.

The train is always replaced by a bus if needed, there are no issues with the connection., I did it twice last year.

Remember, when you get to Heysham you need to check in at the desk even though you have a ticket. you could pick this up at Morecombe if you wish.

Replacement bus would be displayed on describers in plenty of time.

There is a good pub on Lancaster station with outdoor seating and a selection of ales.

Good info - thank you. I think I’ve more of less decided I’m going to get to Morecambe before noon (the sailing from Heysham is 14:15) and have an early-ish lunch, then either walk to Heysham Port or take the train if it shows as running on RTT.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The train is always replaced by a bus if needed, there are no issues with the connection., I did it twice last year.

It isn’t always, as a word of warning. And where it is, it’s often not organised quite as speedily as it should be by Northern. Definitely check Journey Check well in advance.

I’ve normally used the 2X bus from Lancaster- it goes fast down the Bay Gateway road- and walked from Heysham village, it’s about 15 minutes.

As for the premium lounge, definitely worth it on the Manxman, almost certainly not on the Manannan fast cat.

 

[Skymonster]

A very knowledgeable agent on the EMR ticket desk at Derby was able to issue a Low Saver to Douglas with an open-dated return (and a rail card discount) in about one minute this morning - well done!

 

[MrJeeves]

A very knowledgeable agent on the EMR ticket desk at Derby was able to issue a Low Saver to Douglas with an open-dated return (and a rail card discount) in about one minute this morning - well done!

Honestly, the main thing is finding someone who is willing to try.

 

[janb]

It isn’t always, as a word of warning. And where it is, it’s often not organised quite as speedily as it should be by Northern. Definitely check Journey Check well in advance.

As someone in a position to know (and who has grey hairs from dealing with the return working in particular) it is always replaced by a bus (except strike days). You are right though that confirmation and communication of this is not always prompt.

I’m someone who likes to be in control of my own destiny as much as possible and arrive in good time so in that situation I would like you probably adopt the stagecoach/walk approach. (Last time I went to IoM I took my bike so cycled anyway)

 

[Skymonster]

A very knowledgeable agent on the EMR ticket desk at Derby was able to issue a Low Saver to Douglas with an open-dated return (and a rail card discount) in about one minute this morning - well done!

… and sailing reservations confirmed during a brief call to Steam Packet this morning, so my trip is now all set. Interestingly I was not asked for the rail ticket numbers, so I could have secured the ferry reservations before buying the tickets. In the face of online rail systems not always being overly user-friendly, the power of this forum can be impressive.

 

[Tetchytyke]

so my trip is now all set

Glad to hear it. They’ve got a very interesting schedule on this year, and it’ll be interesting to see diesel motor 34 out on the MER again this time. Fingers crossed for good weather!