Railway staff coming back to work - sick leave policy?

[BluePenguin]

This is not a coronavirus related discussion, but a question about sick leave.

One of my friends is driver and was recently on sick leave after testing positive. After 10 days he went back to work with the same symptoms and still testing positive. This begs the question why he didn’t stay at work. This week someone he lives with has tested positive and my driver friend is going to continue going into work. The reason being he is worried that he will not be paid full salary after having been off for so long.

In addition, my other friend who works in railway admin is also on sick leave after testing positive. However the person they are isolating with are cabin crew for an airline and has not been paid sick leave for the time they are off. He has apparently lost out on £700 this month due to the flights he has not worked. I wanted whether the railway has its own guidelines on how much time staff can have off to maintain service levels

What is the policy on this? I know the government guidelines although I am asking what is the typical company policy of each TOC? I assume staff are wiping down the controls etc

 

[Surreytraveller]

Covid will now be normal sickness procedures, as if it were any other illness

 

[BluePenguin]

Covid will now be normal sickness procedures, as if it were any other illness

So if unfit to drive, taking as much time off as you need would still be paid in full?

 

[Surreytraveller]

So if unfit to drive, taking as much time off as you need would still be paid in full?

Depends what their contract says

And its more than just sick pay, as the number of instances of sickness as well as total time off counts against people

 

[BluePenguin]

Depends what their contract says

Apart from drivers who signed their contracts after the pandemic I wouldn’t have thought there would be a clause? I can see it being open to abuse I suppose

The point is staff are going to go back into work, potentially infecting lots of other drivers and passengers who then also get to enjoy lots of free time off - that staff did not want to want to enjoy themselves!

Many trains would probably get cancelled, people will have a great excuse not to go into work. The only people who wouldn’t benefit are those who have not bothered to get vaccinated I guess.

Anyway, back on the topic of sick leave how much are you allowed to take?

 

[Surreytraveller]

Apart from drivers who signed their contracts after the pandemic I wouldn’t have thought there would be a clause? I can see it being open to abuse I suppose

The point is staff are going to go back into work, potentially infecting lots of other drivers and passengers who then also get to enjoy lots of free time off - that staff did not want to want to enjoy themselves!

Many trains would probably get cancelled, people will have a great excuse not to go into work. The only people who wouldn’t benefit are those who have not bothered to get vaccinated I guess.

Anyway, back on the topic of sick leave how much are you allowed to take?

Covid 19 is now treated as any other illness. Doesn't make a difference whether its a cold or covid or a broken leg

 

[Starmill]

Apart from drivers who signed their contracts after the pandemic I wouldn’t have thought there would be a clause?

All contracts of service should mention a sick pay policy, which is what the post you're replying to is getting at. For a train driver as with anyone else they'd need to refer to it.

If nothing was mentioned in the contract, the law still applies regardless. In the case of employees almost all will be eligible for the minimum rate specified by Statutory Sick Pay. This is £0 (usually) for the first three days of sick leave and £99.35 / week thereafter. They cannot be paid nothing for taking sick leave.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Apart from drivers who signed their contracts after the pandemic I wouldn’t have thought there would be a clause? I can see it being open to abuse I suppose

The point is staff are going to go back into work, potentially infecting lots of other drivers and passengers who then also get to enjoy lots of free time off - that staff did not want to want to enjoy themselves!

Many trains would probably get cancelled, people will have a great excuse not to go into work. The only people who wouldn’t benefit are those who have not bothered to get vaccinated I guess.

Anyway, back on the topic of sick leave how much are you allowed to take?

It depends on their contract and company policy. It depends who they work for. There is no national policy, although a lot of operators still use policies that are very similar to British Rail's

 

[BluePenguin]

All contracts of service should mention a sick pay policy, which is what the post you're replying to is getting at. For a train driver as with anyone else they'd need to refer to it.

If nothing was mentioned in the contract, the law still applies regardless. In the case of employees almost all will be eligible for the minimum rate specified by Statutory Sick Pay. This is £0 (usually) for the first three days of sick leave and £99.35 / week thereafter. They cannot be paid nothing for taking sick leave.

Thank you for clarifying that for me.

As Statutory Sick Pay is significantly lower than the amount staff would take him on average each week, no wonder they are reluctant to go sick.

 

[Starmill]

I can see it being open to abuse I suppose

All sick pay policies are open to some level of abuse. It's impossible for them not to be. There are two reasons why this generally isn't a problem, firstly is that you usually want honest and trustworthy staff who are therefore unlikely to lie to you about being sick, and secondly if someone abuses the policy frequently, they would eventually get caught. People have been dismissed for doing this in the past.

Thank you for clarifying that for me.

As Statutory Sick Pay is significantly lower than the amount staff would take him on average each week, no wonder they are reluctant to go sick.

If I'm honest, I'm fairly confused as to why you're asking us what the sick policy is where your friend works rather than simply asking your friend.

 

[BluePenguin]

All sick pay policies are open to some level of abuse. It's impossible for them not to be. There are two reasons why this generally isn't a problem, firstly is that you usually want honest and trustworthy staff who are therefore unlikely to lie to you about being sick, and secondly if someone abuses the policy frequently, they would eventually get caught. People have been dismissed for doing this in the past.


If I'm honest, I'm fairly confused as to why you're asking us what the sick policy is where your friend works rather than simply asking your friend.

Well typically if someone has bad flu then you would not expect them to be out and about. Although as people do not have to isolate anymore, it’s a different story. You can’t force someone to do a test on the spot. So getting caught as such wouldn’t apply.

My friends and I have had a little discussion about how I disagree with them going into work and making other people ill. As a frequent user of our local trains it concerns me the staff on them may be positive too. The government have ruled to let what will be to be. Fair enough. Personally getting any sort of illness is inconvenient for me because I don’t have the ability to just pull a sickie. Being self-employed I don’t get paid if I don’t work. So I have to take pre-cautions to avoid that happening

I did ask my driver friend what the policy was and they did not seem to know. They are not going to speak to their manager to find out either as was warned about taking too much time off. He was told to come back into work on day 10 regardless unless unfit to drive

The other friend who works for another TOC has been told they will receive full pay for any time they are off testing positive, and must not come in at all. Whether they decide to take the mick or not I don’t know. Although they will be visiting me before heading back to the office so I do benefit.

This made me wonder what the official policy was so I thought I would ask on here. Hope this clarifies your confusion.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Well typically if someone has bad flu then you would not expect them to be out and about. Although as people do not have to isolate anymore, it’s a different story. You can’t force someone to do a test on the spot. So getting caught as such wouldn’t apply.

My friends and I have had a little discussion about how I disagree with them going into work and making other people ill. As a frequent user of our local trains it concerns me the staff on them may be positive too. The government have ruled to let what will be to be. Fair enough. Personally getting any sort of illness is inconvenient for me because I don’t have the ability to just pull a sickie. Being self-employed I don’t get paid if I don’t work. So I have to take pre-cautions to avoid that happening

I did ask my driver friend what the policy was and they did not seem to know. They are not going to speak to their manager to find out either as was warned about taking too much time off. He was told to come back into work on day 10 regardless unless unfit to drive

The other friend who works for another TOC has been told they will receive full pay for any time they are off testing positive, and must not come in at all. Whether they decide to take the mick or not I don’t know. Although they will be visiting me before heading back to the office so I do benefit.

This made me wonder what the official policy was so I thought I would ask on here. Hope this clarifies your confusion.

You state this is not a coronavirus discussion, but it quite plainly is, as that's your beef with your friend going back to work.
No one on here can answer your query as to what your friend's official policy is, as no one on here knows who your friend works for.
If you tell us who your friend works for, someone else who works for that company may be able to answer your query.

 

[BluePenguin]

You state this is not a coronavirus discussion, but it quite plainly is, as that's your beef with your friend going back to work.
No one on here can answer your query as to what your friend's official policy is, as no one on here knows who your friend works for.
If you tell us who your friend works for, someone else who works for that company may be able to answer your query.

If you read all of the replies then you will see that it is not. I wanted to give a bit of context to my question. But in a nutshell the scenario I am talking about is should staff go back to work if they are not feeling well, with flu, covid, pain or anything else. I do not have any “beef” with anyone. My friends and I have agreed to disagree. The chat made me think about the topic in more detail that was all.

I don’t want to get either of my good friends into trouble. Several people know me off the forum so might be able to determine who they are. Not knowing how many people are off from each company, naming the one my friend works at could make them easy to identify. I gather from your reply that you believe they should return to work, which is an opinion you are entitled to have.

I am interested in what the official policies are regarding sick leave for each TOC. For argument sake instead of Covid, replace it in the scenario with broken arm, flu, IBS or sunstroke. I was previously off work for a little while with bad sunstroke myself many years ago and lucky to be have been paid in full. However would that have been the case if I was still able to type with one hand perhaps? Think along those lines

 

[Surreytraveller]

The old British Rail policy was 6 months full pay, the following 6 months half pay. A lot of companies have different policies now, can depend upon length of service.
But its about more than pay. If you have a bad sickness record, another bout of sickness can cause you to be sacked. Its not just about how much sick pay is on offer

 

[spyinthesky]

Most large organisations have policies available online. If you can’t find anything under ‘sickness’ it is likely that it is a attendance policy.

 

[yorkie]

You state this is not a coronavirus discussion, but it quite plainly is...

Agreed; I have moved the thread accordingly.

@BluePenguin we would need a lot more information to be able to advise.

Are they fit to work? Who do they work for?

If they are not feeling too ill to work, there is no reason for them to still be off work.

Talk of infections is irrelevant as the vast majority of the population has already been exposed to SARS-CoV-2 and every one of us will be re-exposed multiple times in our lifetimes; trying to delay such exposure is pointless (especially at this time of year) and trying to prevent it would be absolutely futile.

Taking precautions to avoid being ill yourself would include eating healthy, sleeping well, getting plenty of sunlight and exercise etc. You can not avoid being exposed to pathogens. We rely on many viruses to survive and cannot prevent exposure to viruses.

SARS-CoV-2 is becoming endemic and we are heading towards endemic equilibrium. Some people are trying to mislead you into thinking that Governments can somehow prevent the onset of endemic equilibrium; such people are spreading disinformation. I advise not listening to them.

 

[scrapy]

I know that some TOCs are still insisting that staff who have had a positive test must not go into work for 5 days. (If the role allows they should work at home).

This is based in current government advice that says you should stay at home whereever possible for 5 days after an initial positive test whether or not you have symptoms. As this is the company stipulating this this would not be classes as sickness. If the employee feels unfit to return after 5 days then this would go down as normal sickness.

There is currently no advice based on symptoms alone to stay at home so a positive testvis required. Obviously now tests aren't as freely available the numbers testing will reduce.

 

[Mojo]

In addition, my other friend who works in railway admin is also on sick leave after testing positive. However the person they are isolating with are cabin crew for an airline and has not been paid sick leave for the time they are off. He has apparently lost out on £700 this month due to the flights he has not worked. I wanted whether the railway has its own guidelines on how much time staff can have off to maintain service levels

Dependent on the terms of the airline this could be for a number of reasons. I work with someone who used to be a cabin crew and he told me that their basic salary was really low but the pay was made up of all sorts of things such as a booking on payment, mileage payment, extra payment for nights away from home, meal relief allowance etc. On a similar level a sister organisation to mine has recently taken on new staff, on top of the basic salary is a 30% shift allowance, but you only get paid it if you're actually doing a shift, so if you're off sick you only get the basic pay!

Most organisations will have attendance policies, which sets out how much people get paid for sick leave and over what period of time each amount will be paid. You can self-certify your sickness for a minimum of 7 days (although this was temporarily extended for a while due to Coronavirus to 28 days), although companies can, at their discretion, extend this, after which you will be required to provide a fit note from a doctor. I have heard of companies requiring a fit note for instance on a single day of strike action, at which they will pay you expenses as the GP will charge for this, although I'm not sure of the legal status of this.

This policy will also determine at what point attendance will not be deemed to be satisfactory, and one of the potential consequences of this is disciplinary action. I have just found via Google an example of an attendance policy for a railway operator, which was uploaded to the RMT website: https://rmtlondoncalling.org.uk/files/aaw_procedure_250404.pdf