Reading to Paddington and/or Zone 1 payment options

[Tw99]

I've been trying to understand the various options for travel and payment between Reading and London on a weekday, can someone confirm that I've got this right ?

This document https://content.tfl.gov.uk/national-rail-adult-fares.pdf specifies the Contactless PayG caps, where the Peak and Off-Peak caps are the same price as the Anytime and Off-Peak day travelcards at £63.20 and £29.60

However, this TfL page https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares?intcmp=54713 says that when using Contactless, a Peak fare would be charged between 6:30-9:30 and 16:00-19:00. Whereas an Off-Peak day Travelcard is valid any time after 9:30.

An Off-Peak ticket from Paddington to Reading (in whatever form, Travelcard, off-peak day return, paper or e-ticket) is limited to mostly Elizabeth Line services during evening peak hours.

So the question is about travelling into London after 9:30 and returning from Paddington during the evening peak, let's say at 17:00. With an Off-Peak Travelcard or an Off-Peak day return, you would be limited to the EL services only. If using Contactless, you would be charged a Peak single fare, so presumably could use the fast services (paying a Peak fare just to sit on the EL for an hour+ seems like poor value) ?

A subsidiary question is how is the contactless capping worked out if you make a mixture of Peak and Off-Peak journeys ? I found an explanation on @MikeWh page here: https://oysterfares.com/information-pages/peak-off-peak-and-caps/ but I don't fully understand the implications. With the scenario above, the single fare finder says the fare into Paddington would be £12, and the fare out of Paddington would be £27.60 . If the Off-Peak cap applies, then this seems to be a useful way to travel on GWR services at a lower cost. If the Peak cap applies, then what happens if you also made a multitude of journeys inside Zone 1 during the day that ought to have been subject to the Off-Peak cap ?

 

[crablab]

An Off-Peak ticket from Paddington to Reading (in whatever form, Travelcard, off-peak day return, paper or e-ticket) is limited to mostly Elizabeth Line services during evening peak hours.

Specifically, it excludes certain GWR departures from Paddington during the evening peak. It does not restrict departures from Reading.

If using Contactless, you would be charged a Peak single fare, so presumably could use the fast services (paying a Peak fare just to sit on the EL for an hour+ seems like poor value) ?

I don't use contactless, but if it's the Anytime Single equivalent then yes.

If the Off-Peak cap applies, then this seems to be a useful way to travel on GWR services at a lower cost

You can use the GWR services with the Off-Peak Day Return/Travelcard. There are just some exclusions in the evening peak out of Paddington. If you look at the restriction code you'll see which trains are specifically excluded.

And if you have a Railcard then using contactless will not be 'lower cost' by any means!

 

[fandroid]

I'm reasonably certain that you can use the fast trains for travelling from Reading to Paddington after 09.30* with an Offpeak Day Return or Travelcard. The restriction to Elizabeth Line services only applies in the evening park in the reverse direction.
*Check this for the exact train you want to catch. It's possible that a train leaving Reading at 09.31 will still arrive at Paddington a minute or two too early.

As for contactless, my understanding is that the time of tapping in is the critical one, not the time of arrival. That means that if you start your journey somewhere in London just before the evening peak period starts you'll avoid the peak fare back to Reading,

but in practical terms you'd still have to use the Elizabeth Line to get to Reading as transferring at Paddington to a fast train would involve tapping out and tapping in*

The converse works too. If you start the homeward journey somewhere in London just before the end of the evening peak period, then it's actually best to tap out and in at Paddington to take advantage of the lower fare and the faster trains for the mainline leg*

EDIT. *Disregard these bits in italics as advised further down the thread. As Paddington is a valid out of station interchange the whole journey will be regarded as a single journey when the fare is calculated.




My belief is that there are now very few GWR services, if any, that are not restricted out of Paddington in the Evening Peak

 

[JonathanH]

That means that if you start your journey somewhere in London just before the evening peak period starts you'll avoid the peak fare back to Reading, but in practical terms you'd still have to use the Elizabeth Line to get to Reading as transferring at Paddington to a fast train would involve tapping out and tapping in.

Tapping out and tapping in at Paddington should not make a difference (unless you use the platform 6 and 7 barriers). There is a valid out of station interchange to the mainline platforms such that it is considered to be one journey.

My belief is that there are now very few GWR services, if any, that are not restricted out of Paddington in the Evening Peak

Indeed none, between 4pm and the 1850 to Didcot, then two further restricted long distance services at 1902 and 1904.

 

[crablab]

I'm reasonably certain that you can use the fast trains for travelling from Reading to Paddington after 09.30* with an Offpeak Day Return or Travelcard. The restriction to Elizabeth Line services only applies in the evening park in the reverse direction.
*Check this for the exact train you want to catch. It's possible that a train leaving Reading at 09.31 will still arrive at Paddington a minute or two too early.

The first train you can use the Off Peak Day Travelcard is the 0932 on weekdays. It's a restriction on departure time, not arrival time.

It's not valid on any TOC before that time.

My belief is that there are now very few GWR services, if any, that are not restricted out of Paddington in the Evening Peak

This depends slightly on one's interpretation of the restriction, but it seems to be the intention that these tickets are not valid on GWR services in the late afternoon/early evening.

Otherwise there are no restrictions on TOC.

 

[Tw99]

Tapping out and tapping in at Paddington should not make a difference (unless you use the platform 6 and 7 barriers). There is a valid out of station interchange to the mainline platforms such that it is considered to be one journey.

Is that OSI for the transfer from EL only, or does it include other tube lines?

So it seems that I could touch in at 15:58 somewhere in Zone 1, and then be able to transfer after 16:00 to a GWR service to Reading, but still at the off peak rate ?

Still interested in how the capping works if I ended up touching in during 16:00 to 19:00.

 

[JonathanH]

Paddington NR to Lancaster Gate, Paddington LU and Marylebone NR are valid out of station interchanges according to the list here https://oysterfares.com/information-pages/interchanging-trains/osi-list/

Paddington LU Paddington NR 40
Paddington NR Lancaster Gate LU 20
Paddington NR Marylebone NR 40
Paddington NR Paddington LU 20

 

[fandroid]

Tapping out and tapping in at Paddington should not make a difference (unless you use the platform 6 and 7 barriers). There is a valid out of station interchange to the mainline platforms such that it is considered to be one journey.

I have edited my original post to reflect this.

 

[Haywain]

So it seems that I could touch in at 15:58 somewhere in Zone 1, and then be able to transfer after 16:00 to a GWR service to Reading, but still at the off peak rate ?

Yes, definitely.

Still interested in how the capping works if I ended up touching in during 16:00 to 19:00.

It would still be the Off Peak cap that was applied. I refer you to this post on another thread by @MikeWh of this forum, who is the acknowledged expert on the subject.

 

[JonathanH]

Still interested in how the capping works if I ended up touching in during 16:00 to 19:00.

I am interested too. However, there is nothing published to suggest that anything other than the off-peak cap applies.

The interesting thing about it is that some of the peak single fares to Reading actually exceed the off-peak cap of £29.60 - eg Chingford to Reading has a peak single fare of £31.30.

 

[Haywain]

I am interested too.

The post I linked to above was a direct reply to a question you posted!

 

[Tw99]

Yes, definitely.


It would still be the Off Peak cap that was applied. I refer you to this post on another thread by @MikeWh of this forum, who is the acknowledged expert on the subject.

Ah. That's clear then.

Actually one more question.

If I didn't touch out at Reading on the return journey, would the same Off Peak cap still be applied?

This could be useful if continuing the return journey beyond Reading.

 

[JonathanH]

If I didn't touch out at Reading on the return journey, would the same Off Peak cap still be applied?

No, you have to touch out. Any incomplete journeys are charged on top of any capping reached.

 

[plugwash]

If you don't touch out, you will be charged for an incomplete journey, this does not count towards any caps.

Not touching out is a violation of the terms of the pay as you go scheme, and I belive doing it deliberately to get a reduced fare is considered fare evasion, though it's difficult to enforce.