Redhill - Reading

[ExRes]

Oh yeah, I forgot that the old sandite/de-icers formed from the old slammers were also out of gauge through the tunnel, how times have changed with the MPVs.

Don't get me pining for my youth ............

Strangely enough the 47/Sandite situation didn't involve Bletchingley Tunnel, it was out in the open, no idea where now, I was stopped at a signal and told that I couldn't continue until the sandite had passed by, maybe it's so long ago now there was a guy hanging out of a door shovelling the sandite onto the track

 

[davetheguard]

Didn't it very nearly happen in Network SouthEast days?

I'm sure I remember a North Downs timetable being issued with engineering work dates shown for the start of work.

Having said that I can't remember it actually being announced that the line would definitely be electrified; perhaps I'm confusing things from what was, after all, quite a while ago now!

Anyway, whatever the plans were, the recession happened and the railway no longer had the money to go ahead with it......

 

[Metobusfan]

Be nice to see the 319 on the reading red hill like when GW get them


metrobus and GoVia fan

 

[higthomas]

I do wonder where the diesel stock for this line will come from one the GW is electrified. It would be a bit of a pain for Reading depot to operate a subfleet of diesels, but the only other diesel depots nearby are at Selhurst and Salisbury, neither of which is particularly convenient, and both of which would require a change of operator.
I guess of course it could be made to work, as is done for Marshlink, but again I really do think NR should bite the bullet and get round to electrifying this, Uckfield and Marshlink.

 

[The Ham]

I do wonder where the diesel stock for this line will come from one the GW is electrified. It would be a bit of a pain for Reading depot to operate a subfleet of diesels, but the only other diesel depots nearby are at Selhurst and Salisbury, neither of which is particularly convenient, and both of which would require a change of operator.
I guess of course it could be made to work, as is done for Marshlink, but again I really do think NR should bite the bullet and get round to electrifying this, Uckfield and Marshlink.

IIRC from something I was reminded about by someone on this forum that there will other branch lines from the GWML which will still require a few DMU's.

 

[swt_passenger]

IIRC from something I was reminded about by someone on this forum that there will other branch lines from the GWML which will still require a few DMU's.

There was a more recent decision to include electrification of the 3 obvious branches, (Windsor, Henley and Marlow/Bourne End), but not Greenford. Hence all the theories about transferring Greenford to someone else such as Chiltern or LO. There's also still a decision outstanding on how best to run services beyond Newbury, unless I missed it...

 

[21C101]

There was a more recent decision to include electrification of the 3 obvious branches, (Windsor, Henley and Marlow/Bourne End), but not Greenford. Hence all the theories about transferring Greenford to someone else such as Chiltern or LO. There's also still a decision outstanding on how best to run services beyond Newbury, unless I missed it...

There was serious discussion a while back about extending the wires to Westbury if I recall.

The problem with the southern infill is that providing additional third rail seems to give the current incumbents of Wimbledon FCs old ground the vapours as they are currently persuing deluded ideas of ripping all the third rail on the Southern out and replacing it with 25kV a.c. starting with Basingstoke - Southampton.

 

[The Ham]

There was serious discussion a while back about extending the wires to Westbury if I recall.

The problem with the southern infill is that providing additional third rail seems to give the current incumbents of Wimbledon FCs old ground the vapours as they are currently persuing deluded ideas of ripping all the third rail on the Southern out and replacing it with 25kV a.c. starting with Basingstoke - Southampton.

All the branches listed would be OHLE as they do not link with any 3rd rail sections, It could be possible to do so for the North Downs line so that the missing gaps were OHLE too.

Although it would probably require a short length of extra 3rd rail at the junctions to allow for crossovers to happen away from the existing 3rd rail routes (as at least two of them are very busy lines). It would mean that the trains would have to be duel voltage, but that isn't likely to be a problem. It would also mean (subject to XC having dual voltage trains) that they could run EMU's.

 

[bigdelboy]

Some thoughts, some are already mentioned.

• It seems incredulous to me the gaps in guildford-reading have not been 3rd rail electrified, if only simply to add flexibility and some route opportunities.
• there are a number of foot crossings on the north downs lind, including one between platforms at gomshall, where overhead would be better than 3rd rail
• the north downs line is a senic route, overhead line equipment might be visually unsightly unless disguised as trees.
• It seems switching between 3rd rail and overhead is preferred to be done when stopped. Not an issue at reigate ... but at the at approach to guildford the decision when be more challenging unless everything stops at shalford or the chalk+St.Cats tunnels and brdidge at shalford can have overhead .....
• I suspect electric traction might be able to accelerate better on the gradients of the north downs.
• I can see platform lengthening might be a problem.
• redhill remains a serious pinch point for reading gatwick services, and delays often incur there.
• Shalford station is possibly quite susceptible to flooding, possibly not good for 3rd rail.
• Expense almost certainly wouldn't justify it, but re-doing the link from the mole valley line to the north downs line might be more worthwhile if the north downs was electrified.

 

[JonathanH]

Some thoughts, some are already mentioned.

• It seems incredulous to me the gaps in guildford-reading have not been 3rd rail electrified, if only simply to add flexibility and some route opportunities.
• there are a number of foot crossings on the north downs lind, including one between platforms at gomshall, where overhead would be better than 3rd rail
• the north downs line is a senic route, overhead line equipment might be visually unsightly unless disguised as trees.
• It seems switching between 3rd rail and overhead is preferred to be done when stopped. Not an issue at reigate ... but at the at approach to guildford the decision when be more challenging unless everything stops at shalford or the chalk+St.Cats tunnels and brdidge at shalford can have overhead .....
• I suspect electric traction might be able to accelerate better on the gradients of the north downs.
• I can see platform lengthening might be a problem.
• redhill remains a serious pinch point for reading gatwick services, and delays often incur there.
• Shalford station is possibly quite susceptible to flooding, possibly not good for 3rd rail.
• Expense almost certainly wouldn't justify it, but re-doing the link from the mole valley line to the north downs line might be more worthwhile if the north downs was electrified.

It is not at all incredulous that the line has not been electrified. In 1993 there was enough slack in the Thames / Chiltern turbo fleet to allow the heritage units previously used to be replaced (ie this is the primary reason why 165001-165007 worked for Thames). At the time, loadings were such that electrification was probably not justifiable and the turbos have done a good job. There is a diesel depot at one end of the route.

 

[ExRes]

It is not at all incredulous that the line has not been electrified. In 1993 there was enough slack in the Thames / Chiltern turbo fleet to allow the heritage units previously used to be replaced (ie this is the primary reason why 165001-165007 worked for Thames). At the time, loadings were such that electrification was probably not justifiable and the turbos have done a good job. There is a diesel depot at one end of the route.

But 1993 was a long time ago, although even at that time, when I used to work Guards jobs on those units if they were short handed, peak services were rammed and in recent times I've seen them leave Gatwick with an awful lot of bodies on board

I believe the entire route should have had money spent on it, electrification, extended platforms for longer trains and advertising to make it a genuine option from/to Gatwick and the West Country avoiding London

 

[infobleep]

In recent years First Great Western actually cut the number of trains they run on Sundays. There use to be an hourly fast service in addition to a 2 hourly stopping service.

Now they just have an hourly service which every other hour runs slow from Reading to Guildford and then fast and on the other hours, fast to Guildford and then slow to Gatwick.

Clearly they felt there was not enough demand. From memory there also use to be fast service from Guildford to Gatwick or was it Reading, I think around 9.30 on week days but that was cancelled. Think it ran non stop if it was reading and just Redhill and Gatwick if it was the other direction. Again they must have felt no demand given they cancelled it.

They also ran buses during the night to Gatwick Airport and cancelled those. None of this helps make the case for increased services.

As for foot crossings, Hampdon Park has a road and pedestrian crossing and that's third rail. There are also pedestrian crossings near Barnham from memory. Again third rail land.

What I would like to see happen more immediately is the repairing of the air conditioning on the turbo trains. It may be that they do repair them but that they regularly fail.

In an ideal world I'd like more trains and I do wonder if an increased service frequency would encourage more people to travel. If your flight is at 6am,the only way to get to Gatwick is to drive or hire a taxi. Perhaps not enough flights leave at 6am to make running trains worth while. Clearly passengers didn't want to take the bus.

Yet Oxford has two bus companies who run 24 hour buses to both London and Heathrow. Perhaps the greater number of people living in Oxford help or is that their is a much greater frequency of coaches and quality of coaches that leads to this?

 

[JonathanH]

In recent years First Great Western actually cut the number of trains they run on Sundays. There use to be an hourly fast service in addition to a 2 hourly stopping service.

Now they just have an hourly service which every other hour runs slow from Reading to Guildford and then fast and on the other hours, fast to Guildford and then slow to Gatwick.

I think the problem was that the stopping service would typically run empty east of Guildford. They were already using 4 turbos for the "semi-fast" service and 2 turbos for the "slows" so this enabled a cut back to only using 4 units on Sundays. It was an easy cut to make and the current Sunday service is probably the most appropriate compromise between different users of the line.

Clearly they felt there was not enough demand. From memory there also use to be fast service from Guildford to Gatwick or was it Reading, I think around 9.30 on week days but that was cancelled. Think it ran non stop if it was reading and just Redhill and Gatwick if it was the other direction. Again they must have felt no demand given they cancelled it.

Yes, Saturday mornings saw "fast" services from Reading to Gatwick which only stopped at Guildford and Redhill. I think that their demise was simplifying the timetable and they were probably a bit of an extravagance.

They also ran buses during the night to Gatwick Airport and cancelled those. None of this helps make the case for increased services.

Probably not advertised enough.

In recent times, there were also cut backs in the peak service out of Reading in the evening. However, I think there is a case for trying to get more trains from Gatwick to spread the load between the semi-fast and stopping services east of Guildford. Whether seven units instead of six during the day can be justified is another matter.

As for foot crossings, Hampdon Park has a road and pedestrian crossing and that's third rail. There are also pedestrian crossings near Barnham from memory. Again third rail land.

What I would like to see happen more immediately is the repairing of the air conditioning on the turbo trains. It may be that they do repair them but that they regularly fail.

Yes, it is a shame that the refit of the air conditioning hasn't led to passengers accepting that the windows can remain shut on 166s.

In an ideal world I'd like more trains and I do wonder if an increased service frequency would encourage more people to travel. If your flight is at 6am,the only way to get to Gatwick is to drive or hire a taxi. Perhaps not enough flights leave at 6am to make running trains worth while. Clearly passengers didn't want to take the bus.

Yet Oxford has two bus companies who run 24 hour buses to both London and Heathrow. Perhaps the greater number of people living in Oxford help or is that their is a much greater frequency of coaches and quality of coaches that leads to this?

If you are travelling from Reading to Gatwick the M25 is quicker than taking the train except during peak hours. If you are travelling from further west and need to change, the fact that there is only an hourly service from Reading can be offputting for travelling to Gatwick.

There will always be an issue between balancing the needs of passengers at the smaller stations along the route and the perception of people that the train to Gatwick along the North Downs line is slow and stops everywhere.

If you make the current xx04 from Reading go to Gatwick and didn't have to worry about line capacity at Redhill, would you do so in its current timings, meaning it would get to Gatwick about 10 minutes before the "semi-fast" or would you spread the stops between the two services, leading to slower journeys for those who currently use the xx34?

Even if you could run two semi-fasts, perhaps stopping the second one at Farnborough North instead of Blackwater and Dorking West instead of Deepdene, you would still have to find a way of serving Crowthorne, Sandhurst, Ash, Shalford, Chilworth, Gomshall and Betchworth.

The current pattern uses six units off peak. How many could be risked in the name of increasing the service. Would all be well loaded. One possibility might be:

xx04 - RDG-WKM-FNN-NCM-GLD-DPD-REI-RDH-GTW
xx20 - RDG-WKM-CRN-SND-BAW-FNN-NCM-ASH-GLD-SFR
xx34 - RDG-WKM-BAW-NCM-GLD-DPD-REI-RDH-GTW

and with electrification, extend the current Reigate terminator from London to Guildford and back. I think it would just make it with the current skip-stop calling pattern - xx56 from Reigate, would get to Guildford at about xx31, returning xx39 to pick up the xx14 slot from Reigate. (I think that would clash not just with Portsmouth trains at Guildford but also with a quicker xx04 from Reading - shame)

That requires nine units, one of which would be the extra electric to go to Guildford and back. Would the xx20 carry many passengers? Probably not. Would the electric unit carry many passengers? Probably not. Would the 50% increase in staff and train units cover its costs? Probably not.

Plenty of people suggest more trains but don't come up with suggested calling patterns that satisfy all users while also remaining cost-effective for the operator.

 

[Bald Rick]

In an ideal world I'd like more trains and I do wonder if an increased service frequency would encourage more people to travel. If your flight is at 6am,the only way to get to Gatwick is to drive or hire a taxi. Perhaps not enough flights leave at 6am to make running trains worth while. Clearly passengers didn't want to take the bus.

My take on it. There's roughly 50 flights out of LGW before 0700 each morning, which are mostly A319s, let's be generous and say 150 pax each on average, so 7,500 total. Using official figures 37% of LGW pax come from the South East region excluding London, ie all of Kent, Sussex, Surrey, Hants, Berks, Bucks, Oxon. Sussex in particular is a big part of this. Realistically, the proportion of this 37% that live within a few miles of the north downs line is going to be somewhat less than 5%, ie basically Dorking, Guildford, Reading and the Blackwater valley towns. So maybe, the total market for the service is going to be in the order of 150-200 people, ie one train full, if they all chose the train.

Now I live on a line with a direct service to Gatwick which runs all night. I also get the train for free. But if I need to get to Gatwick for 0500 with the family, I'll probably drive as the motorway is empty and it is so much less pfaff. Yes it costs more (parking only, the diesel for the 70 mile trip costs less than a 2 mile taxi ride to the station), but that cost is worth it to avoid lumping cases and trunkis and sleepy children around. Alternatively, we'll go the night before and hotel. If on the other hand, I need to get to Gatwick for 0730 or later, I'll take the train to avoid the traffic.

I suspect a great many people think similarly, and they have to pay for their tickets. So the demand for north downs services arriving before 0500 is likely to be less than 50 a day. And that will barely pay for the diesel the train(s) will use, let alone the staff to run it.

Only my views / experiences of course.

 

[The Ham]

My take on it. There's roughly 50 flights out of LGW before 0700 each morning, which are mostly A319s, let's be generous and say 150 pax each on average, so 7,500 total. Using official figures 37% of LGW pax come from the South East region excluding London, ie all of Kent, Sussex, Surrey, Hants, Berks, Bucks, Oxon. Sussex in particular is a big part of this. Realistically, the proportion of this 37% that live within a few miles of the north downs line is going to be somewhat less than 5%, ie basically Dorking, Guildford, Reading and the Blackwater valley towns. So maybe, the total market for the service is going to be in the order of 150-200 people, ie one train full, if they all chose the train.

Now I live on a line with a direct service to Gatwick which runs all night. I also get the train for free. But if I need to get to Gatwick for 0500 with the family, I'll probably drive as the motorway is empty and it is so much less pfaff. Yes it costs more (parking only, the diesel for the 70 mile trip costs less than a 2 mile taxi ride to the station), but that cost is worth it to avoid lumping cases and trunkis and sleepy children around. Alternatively, we'll go the night before and hotel. If on the other hand, I need to get to Gatwick for 0730 or later, I'll take the train to avoid the traffic.

I suspect a great many people think similarly, and they have to pay for their tickets. So the demand for north downs services arriving before 0500 is likely to be less than 50 a day. And that will barely pay for the diesel the train(s) will use, let alone the staff to run it.

Only my views / experiences of course.

From Farnborough to Gatwick by car takes 40-70 minutes depending on the route taken, whilst the train takes about 70 minutes (depending on which "Farnborough" station used).

Most of that time advantage is lost by parking the car at Gatwick. If you use one of the outer parking companies who would be able to compete on price then it is likely to take longer as you then have to lug your cases onto a bus and then to the terminal (as some of their bus stops are a fair walk from the terminal building).

In fact for the residents of Farnborough quite a few would opt to go by train, it has been even know for people from further afield who know people in Farnborough to opt to drive to Farnborough and then use the train having been dropped off at the station.

 

[Minstral25]

I think the concept that the North Downs is about Airport passengers is wrong, very few of the passengers when I have used it have gone through to Gatwick. It is local users making local connections (i.e. Reigate to Guildford which I and my family use regularly as its the easiest way to go to central Guildford for shopping)

Electrifying for increased Gatwick patronage seems like a good idea but currently it is a local service and I don't think that would justify electrification. However I'd love to see the Reigate's extended to Guildford for faster journeys.

 

[infobleep]

My take on it. There's roughly 50 flights out of LGW before 0700 each morning, which are mostly A319s, let's be generous and say 150 pax each on average, so 7,500 total. Using official figures 37% of LGW pax come from the South East region excluding London, ie all of Kent, Sussex, Surrey, Hants, Berks, Bucks, Oxon. Sussex in particular is a big part of this. Realistically, the proportion of this 37% that live within a few miles of the north downs line is going to be somewhat less than 5%, ie basically Dorking, Guildford, Reading and the Blackwater valley towns. So maybe, the total market for the service is going to be in the order of 150-200 people, ie one train full, if they all chose the train.

Now I live on a line with a direct service to Gatwick which runs all night. I also get the train for free. But if I need to get to Gatwick for 0500 with the family, I'll probably drive as the motorway is empty and it is so much less pfaff. Yes it costs more (parking only, the diesel for the 70 mile trip costs less than a 2 mile taxi ride to the station), but that cost is worth it to avoid lumping cases and trunkis and sleepy children around. Alternatively, we'll go the night before and hotel. If on the other hand, I need to get to Gatwick for 0730 or later, I'll take the train to avoid the traffic.

I suspect a great many people think similarly, and they have to pay for their tickets. So the demand for north downs services arriving before 0500 is likely to be less than 50 a day. And that will barely pay for the diesel the train(s) will use, let alone the staff to run it.

Only my views / experiences of course.

If that is the case, why do they rub trains all night between Bedford Nd Luton. I guess that line is longer so has more passengers and it does pass through London. Be interesting to know what the figures are for passengers during the night and whether it is cost effective for FCC.

 

[infobleep]

My take on it. There's roughly 50 flights out of LGW before 0700 each morning, which are mostly A319s, let's be generous and say 150 pax each on average, so 7,500 total. Using official figures 37% of LGW pax come from the South East region excluding London, ie all of Kent, Sussex, Surrey, Hants, Berks, Bucks, Oxon. Sussex in particular is a big part of this. Realistically, the proportion of this 37% that live within a few miles of the north downs line is going to be somewhat less than 5%, ie basically Dorking, Guildford, Reading and the Blackwater valley towns. So maybe, the total market for the service is going to be in the order of 150-200 people, ie one train full, if they all chose the train.

Now I live on a line with a direct service to Gatwick which runs all night. I also get the train for free. But if I need to get to Gatwick for 0500 with the family, I'll probably drive as the motorway is empty and it is so much less pfaff. Yes it costs more (parking only, the diesel for the 70 mile trip costs less than a 2 mile taxi ride to the station), but that cost is worth it to avoid lumping cases and trunkis and sleepy children around. Alternatively, we'll go the night before and hotel. If on the other hand, I need to get to Gatwick for 0730 or later, I'll take the train to avoid the traffic.

I suspect a great many people think similarly, and they have to pay for their tickets. So the demand for north downs services arriving before 0500 is likely to be less than 50 a day. And that will barely pay for the diesel the train(s) will use, let alone the staff to run it.

Only my views / experiences of course.

If that is the case, why do they run trains all night between Bedford and Luton. I guess that line is longer so has more passengers and it does pass through London. Be interesting to know what the figures are for passengers during the night and whether it is cost effective for FCC.

 

[infobleep]

I think the concept that the North Downs is about Airport passengers is wrong, very few of the passengers when I have used it have gone through to Gatwick. It is local users making local connections (i.e. Reigate to Guildford which I and my family use regularly as its the easiest way to go to central Guildford for shopping)

Electrifying for increased Gatwick patronage seems like a good idea but currently it is a local service and I don't think that would justify electrification. However I'd love to see the Reigate's extended to Guildford for faster journeys.

At certain times of the year there are quite a few travellers for the airport. Actually I see quite a few board whenever I get on at Gatwick at any time of the year. They can't all become from south of Gatwick Airport as I usually am.

 

[Bald Rick]

If that is the case, why do they run trains all night between Bedford and Luton. I guess that line is longer so has more passengers and it does pass through London. Be interesting to know what the figures are for passengers during the night and whether it is cost effective for FCC.

You've just answered your own question - it goes through London.

The number of flights leaving Luton before 0700 is minimal, 6 or 7. Maybe a thousand pax tops. I've done it maybe a dozen times, and the number of people getting off the 0505 arrival from London is usually less than a bus full on the shuttle connection, and quite a few of those are using the parkway station car park as a cheap long stay facility (*raises arm*). The night trains are more about the night economy of London; after 0200 they are quite empty except on Friday nights.

On the other hand, these are electric trains and need only half the staff to operate that the North downs line needs, so it is a much cheaper operation.

GTR think there is a market, and are going half hourly from next December IIRC.

 

[FenMan]

I think the concept that the North Downs is about Airport passengers is wrong, very few of the passengers when I have used it have gone through to Gatwick. It is local users making local connections (i.e. Reigate to Guildford which I and my family use regularly as its the easiest way to go to central Guildford for shopping)

Electrifying for increased Gatwick patronage seems like a good idea but currently it is a local service and I don't think that would justify electrification. However I'd love to see the Reigate's extended to Guildford for faster journeys.

I live a 5 minute walk from Blackwater station and have read this thread with interest.

The North Downs is an unusual line and, whilst the Gatwick flow is important, it is not a consideration for most users.

In addition to normal local traffic, Reading, especially, and Guildford are prime commuter destinations in their own right.

There are London commuters from Blackwater, Sandhurst, Crowthorne and Shalford as the journey times are competitive when compared with stations having direct links.

The line cuts across several London lines and so opens up a huge number of journey opportunities across southern England without having to go near London - via the interchanges at Reading, Wokingham, Farnborough North, North Camp, Guildford, Dorking Deepdene and Redhill.

There are significant numbers who use the North Downs to access the Reading hub for longer distance journeys to the west and north, with the benefits of avoiding London and, in many cases, faster end to end journey times. It's noticeable that my local station Blackwater, which has a prime, accessible location at the north end of the Blackwater Valley conurbation, is well used as a gateway for this purpose by people living in Camberley, Frimley, north Farnborough (Farnborough North station should really be called Farnborough East!) and Yateley.

The current service pattern, unchanged pretty much for years, is about right. Given the current impossibility of a more frequent direct Gatwick service the only tweaks I would make are:-

• An earlier first stopping train to Reading (taking the path held by XC?)
• Address the mid-evening service gap from Reading between 20:04 and 21:34 (the 20:34 is a semi-fast, so passengers for Crowthorne, Farnborough North etc have a long wait)
• Restore the 3tp2h Sunday service for stations between Reading and Guildford between 10:00 and 17:00, as the combination of Reading and Guildford shoppers and Gatwick passengers can result in third world-style overcrowding on current services.

As for the long term future, I think the line has to continue as a diesel island until either the Waterloo - Reading and Redhill - Gatwick stretches have been converted to OHE or battery technology becomes proven and cost-effective. Whichever way, I cannot see the current situation changing anytime soon.

Thoughts of Oxford - Gatwick directs etc, even if desirable (which I would question) are not practical propositions, and Oxford passengers already have perfectly good direct services to Birmingham and Southampton airports.

 

[infobleep]

You've just answered your own question - it goes through London.

The number of flights leaving Luton before 0700 is minimal, 6 or 7. Maybe a thousand pax tops. I've done it maybe a dozen times, and the number of people getting off the 0505 arrival from London is usually less than a bus full on the shuttle connection, and quite a few of those are using the parkway station car park as a cheap long stay facility (*raises arm*). The night trains are more about the night economy of London; after 0200 they are quite empty except on Friday nights.

On the other hand, these are electric trains and need only half the staff to operate that the North downs line needs, so it is a much cheaper operation.

GTR think there is a market, and are going half hourly from next December IIRC.

Ah well. If it's about the London economy then there's a good case for 24 hour trains from Waterloo when the next franchise comes along.

 

[infobleep]

I live a 5 minute walk from Blackwater station and have read this thread with interest.

The North Downs is an unusual line and, whilst the Gatwick flow is important, it is not a consideration for most users.

In addition to normal local traffic, Reading, especially, and Guildford are prime commuter destinations in their own right.

There are London commuters from Blackwater, Sandhurst, Crowthorne and Shalford as the journey times are competitive when compared with stations having direct links.

The line cuts across several London lines and so opens up a huge number of journey opportunities across southern England without having to go near London - via the interchanges at Reading, Wokingham, Farnborough North, North Camp, Guildford, Dorking Deepdene and Redhill.

There are significant numbers who use the North Downs to access the Reading hub for longer distance journeys to the west and north, with the benefits of avoiding London and, in many cases, faster end to end journey times. It's noticeable that my local station Blackwater, which has a prime, accessible location at the north end of the Blackwater Valley conurbation, is well used as a gateway for this purpose by people living in Camberley, Frimley, north Farnborough (Farnborough North station should really be called Farnborough East!) and Yateley.

The current service pattern, unchanged pretty much for years, is about right. Given the current impossibility of a more frequent direct Gatwick service the only tweaks I would make are:-

• An earlier first stopping train to Reading (taking the path held by XC?)
• Address the mid-evening service gap from Reading between 20:04 and 21:34 (the 20:34 is a semi-fast, so passengers for Crowthorne, Farnborough North etc have a long wait)
• Restore the 3tp2h Sunday service for stations between Reading and Guildford between 10:00 and 17:00, as the combination of Reading and Guildford shoppers and Gatwick passengers can result in third world-style overcrowding on current services.

As for the long term future, I think the line has to continue as a diesel island until either the Waterloo - Reading and Redhill - Gatwick stretches have been converted to OHE or battery technology becomes proven and cost-effective. Whichever way, I cannot see the current situation changing anytime soon.

Thoughts of Oxford - Gatwick directs etc, even if desirable (which I would question) are not practical propositions, and Oxford passengers already have perfectly good direct services to Birmingham and Southampton airports.

The problem with Reading as a route is that it's very hard to get cheap advance purchase tickets. I can get plenty of cheap advance purchase tickets when Cross Country services are diverted via Guildford due to engineering works but otherwise I can't. So I end up going via London.

 

[TEW]

It depends where you're going. For anyone heading on the FGW network travelling via the North Downs and Reading is usually the quickest, and often the cheapest, option.

 

[Rational Plan]

For flying it all depends when you are travelling. Remember check in opens two hours before take off and the reality is unless you live on a direct line to the airport station you will need to make multiple train connections, which is hard to do early in the morning. unless your flight is after 10am and your return arrives back before 9pm, then many journeys become vulnerable to delays.

I live near Heathrow, one year I was going on holiday, but at the time the nearest flight to my holiday destination was Gatwick.

Coming back my flight was on time but for some reason there was almost no one staffing immigration and all the last Easyjet flights landed and it took us over 2 hours to get through immigration. A night of chaos i'll never forget from luggage carousels over flowing with three flights worth of unclaimed luggage spinning around from people stuck in immigration. To old people fainting everywhere.

My bright idea was to save money on using the coach link to Heathrow, but by then I was reliant on long distance National express services. But those same services ended up sailing through the North terminal coach stop because no body had 'booked' the journey. of course the booking line is closed by the time you land. It's 2am by this point and I decided to go to the South Terminal and pay for another ticket on the Oxford service.

Long storey short unless my journey is well within normal travel hours, it will be the car for me to go the airport. Book more than 21 days in advance the car parks are not too expensive and the 40 minute drive home is just a quarter of the time to slog it out with public transport. In fact so long are most public transport times it takes either the risk of horrendous traffic and much lower costs for me to consider public transport for the trip.

 

[HowardGWR]

Gatwick.

Coming back my flight was on time but for some reason there was almost no one staffing immigration and all the last Easyjet flights landed and it took us over 2 hours to get through immigration. A night of chaos i'll never forget from luggage carousels over flowing with three flights worth of unclaimed luggage spinning around from people stuck in immigration. To old people fainting everywhere.

An appalling and inhuman way to treat people. Especially when one thinks that if we were in Schengen, Gatwick has the ability to segregate arrivals so that no immigration checks would be needed. I wonder if this problem will be solved with electronic checks. My exits from Gatwick take literally no more than 20 minutes from exiting the aircraft to stepping onto the station platform. This is because we have machine readable passports. Perhaps well worth 'losing' your old one and getting a new one.

 

[Bald Rick]

Ah well. If it's about the London economy then there's a good case for 24 hour trains from Waterloo when the next franchise comes along.

Fair point, for an hourly service down the main line, perhaps to Basingstoke where the 4 track ends.

Although you'd probably have to halve the number of staff on board to make it viable

 

[al.currie93]

It depends where you're going. For anyone heading on the FGW network travelling via the North Downs and Reading is usually the quickest, and often the cheapest, option.

My £4.95 two-week-advance ticket from Deepdene to Bath proves this :P

 

[infobleep]

My £4.95 two-week-advance ticket from Deepdene to Bath proves this :P

Wow that is cheap. How come the such cheap price? Is it because Deepdene is managed by FGW?

 

[Captain Chaos]

Wow that is cheap. How come the such cheap price? Is it because Deepdene is managed by FGW?

I work as a Guard on this route. Best I have seen is a Gatwick to Swindon 1st class advance for £3.30!

Fenman has got this line pretty much spot on. Fully agree with regards to the Sunday service as well. It needs resolving. It never used to be like it is now.