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Redhill to Tonbridge line DOO services.

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Does anyone have a list or know which Redhill to Tonbridge line services have Guards and which are DOO? From what i have heard it is the services driven by Southeastern drivers which have Guards and the services driven by Southern drivers which are DOO. I was looking on Real Time Trains which normally shows which services are DOO however none of the Redhill to Tonbridge line services are showing as DOO. Is the Redhill to Tonbridge line not going to be converted to DOO or has Real Time Trains just not been programmed to show this yet?
 
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steamybrian

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It is my impression that the Redhill to Tonbridge line is NOT yet authorised for DOO working. It will require installation of CCTV cameras at each station for drivers to see the platforms although at each intermediate station the platforms are straight.
As all intermediate stations are unmanned it will still need a conductor on board to collect fares.
 
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It is my impression that the Redhill to Tonbridge line is NOT yet authorised for DOO working. It will require installation of CCTV cameras at each station for drivers to see the platforms although at each intermediate station the platforms are straight.
As all intermediate stations are unmanned it will still need a conductor on board to collect fares.

I dont think platform CCTV cameras or mirrors are necessary on Southern as the 377s already have CCTV cameras on the side of the train which the driver views in the cab. For example the 377s on the East Coastway line / West Coastway line / Arun Valley Line / Mole Valley line have already become DOO even though none of the stations on these lines have platform CCTV cameras or mirrors. Although they are unstaffed all five intermediate stations do have full cash and card TVMs.
 

tsr

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It is my impression that the Redhill to Tonbridge line is NOT yet authorised for DOO working. It will require installation of CCTV cameras at each station for drivers to see the platforms although at each intermediate station the platforms are straight.
As all intermediate stations are unmanned it will still need a conductor on board to collect fares.

This is incorrect - Redhill to Tonbridge has been cleared for DOO(P) for stock with bodyside cameras. This line is almost exclusively operated by 377s, which have cameras, so pretty much all trains are covered by this. Due to the nature of the stations at Redhill and Tonbridge, platform staff dispatch DOO trains at these two locations at all times. If 375s (or other trains without cameras) are required to run on the route, a conductor/guard must be provided.

However, Southeastern drivers work this route extensively and they are not trained to use the DOO monitors on 377s and must therefore be dispatched by a Southern or Southeastern conductor at all times. Southeastern conductors will also dispatch Southern drivers. Southeastern's Tonbridge & Hastings crews work this route to retain route knowledge and to balance crews at London termini. In addition, Southern's Redhill drivers and Selhurst conductors sign the route.

As for stations being unmanned, all stations are now equipped with TVMs and are within the GTR Penalty Fares scheme, although discretion is often required due to unclear signage remaining at a couple of stations, and due to the lack of nearby station staff to maintain the machines (this is done by local station management and maintenance staff on various patrols).

To answer the original query, I can't give a full list as I don't have the rosters of both TOCs to hand, but a lot of the early morning, late-lunchtime and evening peak time services (in particular) have conductors.
 
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This is incorrect - Redhill to Tonbridge has been cleared for DOO(P) for stock with bodyside cameras. This line is almost exclusively operated by 377s, which have cameras, so pretty much all trains are covered by this. Due to the nature of the stations at Redhill and Tonbridge, platform staff dispatch DOO trains at these two locations at all times. If 375s (or other trains without cameras) are required to run on the route, a conductor/guard must be provided.

However, Southeastern drivers work this route extensively and they are not trained to use the DOO monitors on 377s and must therefore be dispatched by a Southern or Southeastern conductor at all times. Southeastern conductors will also dispatch Southern drivers. Southeastern's Tonbridge & Hastings crews work this route to retain route knowledge and to balance crews at London termini. In addition, Southern's Redhill drivers and Selhurst conductors sign the route.

As for stations being unmanned, all stations are now equipped with TVMs and are within the GTR Penalty Fares scheme, although discretion is often required due to unclear signage remaining at a couple of stations, and due to the lack of nearby station staff to maintain the machines (this is done by local station management and maintenance staff on various patrols).

To answer the original query, I can't give a full list as I don't have the rosters of both TOCs to hand, but a lot of the early morning, late-lunchtime and evening peak time services (in particular) have conductors.

Thanks for the info. Its really a shame that GTR wont publish this information as it would be very useful (especially for disabled passengers) to know which services are guarenteed to have a Guard and which services are DOO (and are not guarenteed to have an OBS on board).

Do 375s actually ever run the stopping services on this route any more? I think the only time i have seen 375s is when Southeastern divert their services due to engineering works?
 

tsr

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Thanks for the info. Its really a shame that GTR wont publish this information as it would be very useful (especially for disabled passengers) to know which services are guarenteed to have a Guard and which services are DOO (and are not guarenteed to have an OBS on board).

Do 375s actually ever run the stopping services on this route any more? I think the only time i have seen 375s is when Southeastern divert their services due to engineering works?

Southeastern have been known to stop their 375s at intermediate stations to recover passengers stranded by Southern cancellations, on agreement between the two TOC Control teams.
 

Deepgreen

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Southeastern have been known to stop their 375s at intermediate stations to recover passengers stranded by Southern cancellations, on agreement between the two TOC Control teams.

This scenario requires the combination of no/few Southern trains running and Southeastern trains diverted over the route (i.e. the railway being open but the TOCs operating it swapped over) - extremely rare.
 

tsr

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This scenario requires the combination of no/few Southern trains running and Southeastern trains diverted over the route (i.e. the railway being open but the TOCs operating it swapped over) - extremely rare.

Much less rare now than it was a few years ago. Loads of weekend services have been diverted over this route in the last year, and I can also think of a number of occasions where this has been done on an ad-hoc emergency basis too.

With Southern's difficulties presenting themselves on dates including those on which major engineering works have affected SE, it should hardly be surprising that their trains have occasionally called at the intermediate stops!
 
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Can the 465s and 466s also be used on this route if necessary (for example during engineering works etc)? If so i presume they are also able to call at the five intermediate stations if neccessary?
 

RichJF

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Can the 465s and 466s also be used on this route if necessary (for example during engineering works etc)? If so i presume they are also able to call at the five intermediate stations if neccessary?

Correct me if I'm wrong; but AFAIK Networkers aren't cleared for this route due to electrical/signalling issues. The same reason that class 92's aren't permitted along it I think.

The only electric units I've seen on the route are the 4xx series, 508's & 37x.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong; but AFAIK Networkers aren't cleared for this route due to electrical/signalling issues. The same reason that class 92's aren't permitted along it I think.

The only electric units I've seen on the route are the 4xx series, 508's & 37x.

Ah yes you are probably right. I have certainly never seen a 465 or 466 on this section before.
 
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