Refund after cancelled train enquiry

[trainadvice]

Hi all, wondered if anyone could help me figure out what compensation I’m entitled to following a train cancellation.

I was booked on the 19:27 Grand Central train from King’s Cross to Eaglescliffe (should have arrived 22:05) which unfortunately was cancelled due to electrical issues in the train. Once I heard there were issues, I booked a separate ticket for the 21:00 LNER train which arrives at Darlington at 23:56 (closest stop to Eaglescliffe).

Grand Central delay repay policy is as follows:

Delays of 1 to 2 hours	50% of the cost of a single ticket or 50% of the relevant portion of a return ticket.
Delays of 2 to 3 hours	75% of the cost of a single ticket or 75% of the relevant portion of a return ticket.
Delays over 3 hours	100% of the cost of a single ticket or 100% of the relevant portion of a return ticket.

Or you can get a full refund if you choose not to travel.

My question is whether booking a different ticket comes under the jurisdiction of choosing not to travel? i.e. does ‘choose not to travel’ simply mean I chose not to use my original ticket on a different valid service (ie ticket acceptance on another train) or does it mean I choose not to travel that day at all? If the latter, what level of the above compensation would I be entitled to as my end destination was meant to be Eaglescliffe; however, by the time I get into Darlington there will be no more trains to Eaglescliffe until 06:14. My dad is able to pick me up from Darlington but, correct me if I’m wrong, does compensation not go on when you can get to your end station which I’m unable to do via train? So would that come under full refund territory or the 1-2/2-3 hours?

It may be important to note that my original ticket was a return so I’m not sure if getting the refund under the ‘choose not to travel’ option would refund both tickets or if I’d be able to just refund the outbound portion.

TIA! Apologies if any of this doesn’t make sense, happy to clarify!

 

[Watershed]

Delay compensation is payable if you use your ticket but are delayed in arriving at your final destination. You claim this from the operator at fault for the delay.

A refund applies if you don't use your ticket to make (or complete) your journey. If you decide not to use your ticket because of disruption, you're entitled to a full refund on any unused ticket(s) without any fees being applied. You claim this from the retailer you used to buy your ticket.

Based on the circumstances you've described, really you should be claiming a refund on your GC ticket, as you didn't use it to travel in the end and bought another one to Darlington. There is a slight complexity in that you were intending on using the outward portion of a return ticket, so if you refund this in full you will have to buy another single - leaving you about £10 out of pocket, since a GC only single is more than half the cost of a return.

However, at least in theory you're entitled to a partial refund on the outward portion of your ticket - which should be calculated as 50% of its value because this is an 'involuntary' disruption-related refund.

Presuming this happened yesterday (as that's one of two days this month that the 19:27 has been cancelled), GC were advising passengers to take either their 19:48 service as far as Doncaster, or the 21:00 LNER service as far as York:



I can't immediately see what they are suggesting passengers for Eaglescliffe should have done, but if they were suggesting passengers shouldn't take the 20:00 LNER service, then I can't see any obvious same-day alternative for getting to Eaglescliffe.

I'm just wondering why you bought another ticket for the 21:00 to Darlington, since as a minimum, you should have been allowed to take this service to York. Since you would have been stranded upon arrival at York, any train company in a position to assist you - such as LNER, whose train you would have been on at that point - would be obliged to help you get to your destination. Letting you stay on that service to Northallerton or Darlington and then arranging a taxi would seem an eminently reasonable way of doing that.

If it's the case that you bought the additional ticket for the 21:00 thinking (either from what GC or LNER said) that your GC ticket wasn't valid on it, you should be able to claim back the cost of this ticket from whichever operator wrongly said this in addition to Delay Repay, based on a notional arrival time at Eaglescliffe had your dad driven you there from Darlington (this would likely be at the 2+ hour rate).

 

[trainadvice]

Based on the circumstances you've described, really you should be claiming a refund on your GC ticket, as you didn't use it to travel in the end and bought another one to Darlington. There is a slight complexity in that you were intending on using the outward portion of a return ticket, so if you refund this in full you will have to buy another single - leaving you about £10 out of pocket, since a GC only single is more than half the cost of a return.

Yeah was looking at refunding the GC ticket but as I managed to get home I’d rather not refund the full return and just get the refund for the outward portion back so I can still use the inbound, but not sure that’s possible if I go through the ‘chose not to travel’ route.

I can't immediately see what they are suggesting passengers for Eaglescliffe should have done, but if they were suggesting passengers shouldn't take the 20:00 LNER service, then I can't see any obvious same-day alternative for getting to Eaglescliffe.

They only allowed passengers going to Sunderland aboard the 20:00 LNER train (didn’t give a reason why). They did mention I could get the delayed 19:48 train to Bradford Int and to change at Doncaster where I’d have had around an hour’s wait for the next train to Darlington (which would have been the 21:00 LNER train anyway), but I had my cat with me who was already very stressed out and I didn’t want to risk not getting a seat as the train was already packed or getting lost in a train station I was unfamiliar with.

I'm just wondering why you bought another ticket for the 21:00 to Darlington, since as a minimum, you should have been allowed to take this service to York.

As I had my cat with me, I wanted to guarantee I had a seat and knew it wouldn’t involve any major changes, plus it was only £31 so seemed like the safest bet. I’d bought it with the intention that I could easily refund if the GC train did run (at that point it hadn’t yet been cancelled) or, if it didn’t, then at least I had a guaranteed seat on the next best train. Only once everyone was on the train did they say the ticket acceptance was until York and that they didn’t know if GC had anything sorted out from there. Obviously recognise buying the LNER ticket was my decision to make so not seeking a refund for it, just ideally on the GC one that I didn’t use.

Since you would have been stranded upon arrival at York, any train company in a position to assist you - such as LNER, whose train you would have been on at that point - would be obliged to help you get to your destination. Letting you stay on that service to Northallerton or Darlington and then arranging a taxi would seem an eminently reasonable way of doing that.

There were a couple people I saw who wanted to stay on past York and the conductor told them they would have to pay for the journey after York and that it was up to GC, not LNER, to make sure they got to their destination. So basically if they stayed on after York they were pretty much on their own as at least Darlington and Northallerton would have been unmanned at that point, not sure about the later stations.

If it's the case that you bought the additional ticket for the 21:00 thinking (either from what GC or LNER said) that your GC ticket wasn't valid on it, you should be able to claim back the cost of this ticket from whichever operator wrongly said this in addition to Delay Repay, based on a notional arrival time at Eaglescliffe had your dad driven you there from Darlington (this would likely be at the 2+ hour rate).

Was a mix of not knowing if they’d accept it as they said to get on the delayed 19:48 GC train to Bradford Interchange (another reason I was reluctant to do this is because that train was stuck directly behind my original GC train on the platform so there was no telling *how* delayed it could be) and wanting to ensure I got a seat for my cat, so probably won’t be able to claim that back as I wasn’t advised by either GC or LNER to buy it, it was entirely of my own - slightly panicked - volition.

I think what you’re saying is, if I want to be able to use the inward portion of the return ticket then it would be best to apply for a refund under the 2+ hours rate? With the drive from Darlington, I would have gotten into Eaglescliffe around 22:30 so it would be just under two and a half hours delay. I just keep confusing myself at the wording for the ‘chose not to travel’ route:

You did not travel using your ticket, here is how to claim a refund

• Advance tickets​

• Advance tickets are non-refundable, unless the service they were valid for is cancelled, disrupted or amended and, as a result, you choose not to travel, you can receive a full refund from your point of purchase.
• Purchases via Grand Central, you will need to provide your booking reference number (beginning B-GRANDCNTRL or MOTO) and a photograph of your tickets cut or torn in half to demonstrate they are invalid.

Although I did travel, it was not through my GC ticket (“You did not travel using your ticket”). So surely I should be able to refund just that portion? But then “full refund” suggests it would be for the entire return ticket. Gah!! Can’t tell if it actually is confusing wording or if I’m just being silly. Thanks so much for your help!!

 

[londonbridge]

Other members are more knowledgable than myself but my belief is that you were entitled to ask Grand Central to reroute you under the PRO and you were under no obligation to purchase another ticket. I will, however, leave other members to work out what would have been the best course of action and which train to take, and what you’re actually entitled to.

 

[yorkie]

There were a couple people I saw who wanted to stay on past York and the conductor told them they would have to pay for the journey after York and that it was up to GC, not LNER, to make sure they got to their destination. So basically if they stayed on after York they were pretty much on their own as at least Darlington and Northallerton would have been unmanned at that point, not sure about the later stations.

LNER are wrong; they would not be allowed to charge customers in such situations where they are in a position to convey them. If LNER are unhappy with GC that's an internal rail industry matter.

Sadly some LNER staff behave inappropriately, and the company's attitude towards their own customers can be pretty shocking at times; their attitude towards GC travellers is even worse.

I think what you’re saying is, if I want to be able to use the inward portion of the return ticket then it would be best to apply for a refund under the 2+ hours rate?

If you did not use one portion of a return ticket, then you get 50% of the value of the return ticket back from the retailer.

Although I did travel, it was not through my GC ticket (“You did not travel using your ticket”). So surely I should be able to refund just that portion? But then “full refund” suggests it would be for the entire return ticket. Gah!! Can’t tell if it actually is confusing wording or if I’m just being silly. Thanks so much for your help!!

In this case a full refund, of an unused portion of a return ticket, is 50% of the value of the return ticket.

A good retailer will make such a claim easy; our website supports this. I did once claim on that basis and it was immediate.

 

[MrJeeves]

As I had my cat with me, I wanted to guarantee I had a seat and knew it wouldn’t involve any major changes, plus it was only £31 so seemed like the safest bet. I’d bought it with the intention that I could easily refund if the GC train did run

For what it's worth, the £31 ticket would have been an advance I'm pretty sure, which would be non-refundable in almost all circumstances.