Renaming stations with unsavoury links

[Gathursty]

As statues are being pulled down, I thought about James Cook and his exploits in the Pacific and the man behind the foundation of Port Sunlight and how he used forced labour in The Congo.

There could be other stations with such links that I'm unaware of.

Should we rename railway stations with unsavoury links?

 

[Bletchleyite]

James Cook is correctly named after the hospital it serves. If the hospital was renamed, the station should also be renamed. But renaming the station without renaming the hospital would negate the point. So any such campaign would need to start with the hospital.

 

[bearhugger]

James Cook is deeply ingrained in Middlesbrough's psyche as our most famous son. His acheivements are celebrated. There are many references to him in Middlesbrough, and in the wider area to Whitby. There's the hospital, the birthplace museum near Marton station, a primary school named after him, & wider afield at Great Ayton there is a small musuem that wa his school, the statue on the village green (which is one of the statues that is currently part of the dabate of being removed). There' Captain Cook Monument on Easby Moor which is visible for many miles around, and the connections at Whitby where he set sail on his voyages. Personally, I'm of the opinion at the moment that we keep the statues etc but we need to re-educate ourselves and learn from the past.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would support adding plaques to the statues, where they remain, explaining the upsides and downsides of the person's life, as they would if in a museum.

 

[bearhugger]

I would support adding plaques to the statues, where they remain, explaining the upsides and downsides of the person's life, as they would if in a museum.

+1 / Like.
Jut googled the wording on the plaque of Captain Cook Monument:
" In memory of the celebrated circumnavigator Captain James Cook F.R.S. A man of nautical knowledge inferior to none, in zeal prudence and energy, superior to most. Regardless of danger he opened an intercourse with the Friendly Isles and other parts of the Southern Hemisphere. He was born at Marton Oct. 27th 1728 and massacred at Owythee Feb. 14th 1779 to the inexpressible grief of his countrymen. While the art of navigation shall be cultivated among men, whilst the spirit of enterprise, commerce and philanthropy shall animate the sons of Britain, while it shall be deemed the honour of a Christian Nation to spread civilisation and the blessings of the Christian faith among pagan and savage tribes, so long will the name of Captain Cook stand out amongst the most celebrated and most admired benefactors of the human race. "
I think the part that I've boldend is causing some issues now, and I would support the replacement of said plaque with more appropriate wording.

 

[Gathursty]

Slave trader Edward Colston attended Christs Hospital school in Sussex.

 

[adrock1976]

James Cook is deeply ingrained in Middlesbrough's psyche as our most famous son. His acheivements are celebrated. There are many references to him in Middlesbrough, and in the wider area to Whitby. There's the hospital, the birthplace museum near Marton station, a primary school named after him, & wider afield at Great Ayton there is a small musuem that wa his school, the statue on the village green (which is one of the statues that is currently part of the dabate of being removed). There' Captain Cook Monument on Easby Moor which is visible for many miles around, and the connections at Whitby where he set sail on his voyages. Personally, I'm of the opinion at the moment that we keep the statues etc but we need to re-educate ourselves and learn from the past.

Do the locals of Middlesbrough also view Brian Clough as a famous son? He started his footballing career with his hometown team and while manager of Nottingham Forest, they won the European Cup in 1979 and retained it in 1980.

That was back in the days for participation in the tournament, you had to enter it the proper way by winning the top flight division.

 

[Kingspanner]

Yes they do, and there is, or was, a statue in Albert Park in the town.

 

[bearhugger]

Do the locals of Middlesbrough also view Brian Clough as a famous son? He started his footballing career with his hometown team and while manager of Nottingham Forest, they won the European Cup in 1979 and retained it in 1980.

That was back in the days for participation in the tournament, you had to enter it the proper way by winning the top flight division.

Yes we do. As @Kingspanner alludes to in his post there is still a statue in Albert Park which depicts him on his walking route from his house to Ayresome Park which apparently he used to do on a regular occurrence, to train and play.

 

[ainsworth74]

Yes I think removing and renaming things to do with James Cook is on a hiding to nothing. By all means let's put it into a modern context, like @bearhugger pointed out I'm not sure that current inscription on the Captain Cook Monument should be allowed to stand by itself without some sort of explanation! I've posted this before I'm sure but I still maintain that the approach taken by Warner Brothers when they released various compilation of Looney Tunes cartoons with the following message at the start of the DVD is the way to go:

The cartoons you are about to see are products of their time. They may depict some of the ethnic and racial prejudices that were commonplace in the U.S society. These depictions were wrong then and they are wrong today. While the following does not represent the Warner Bros. view of today's society, these cartoons are being presented as they were originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming that these prejudices never existed.

Perhaps some people (such as Colston in Bristol or Leopold II in Antwerp) should have their statutes taken down and confined to a museum. But for plenty of others I'm not convinced that erasing them from history is the right answer.

 

[Cowley]

Yes I think removing and renaming things to do with James Cook is on a hiding to nothing. By all means let's put it into a modern context, like @bearhugger pointed out I'm not sure that current inscription on the Captain Cook Monument should be allowed to stand by itself without some sort of explanation! I've posted this before I'm sure but I still maintain that the approach taken by Warner Brothers when they released various compilation of Looney Tunes cartoons with the following message at the start of the DVD is the way to go:



Perhaps some people (such as Colston in Bristol or Leopold II in Antwerp) should have their statutes taken down and confined to a museum. But for plenty of others I'm not convinced that erasing them from history is the right answer.

Well said @ainsworth74 .

 

[pdeaves]

Perhaps some people (such as Colston in Bristol or Leopold II in Antwerp) should have their statutes taken down and confined to a museum. But for plenty of others I'm not convinced that erasing them from history is the right answer.

Remembering in a historical context is, in my view, infinitely better than 'get rid of everything'. For example, should we remove the Clifton suspension bridge if it was funded by people who got wealthy through the slave trade? Where does one draw the line? As you mention, pretending something wasn't there doesn't make it go away. We don't like concentration camps and wish they had never existed. Should Germany raze them all, or leave them as a monument with a historical context? I think the reminder of the past is the right thing to do, and similarly for people in Britain.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Not strictly to do with stations but... Going back a little further in time, slavery was absolutely rife in the Roman empire. But doing a bit of Googling, it appears that the name 'Britain' has its origins in Latin - it's a name we've got from the Roman Empire. So, should we think about renaming Great Britain?

Oh, and Hadrian supported slavery (although as Roman Emperor he did pass some laws to improve the lot of slaves). Guess we need to re-think what we call Hadrian's Wall...

 

[MarkyT]

Remembering in a historical context is, in my view, infinitely better than 'get rid of everything'. For example, should we remove the Clifton suspension bridge if it was funded by people who got wealthy through the slave trade? Where does one draw the line? As you mention, pretending something wasn't there doesn't make it go away. We don't like concentration camps and wish they had never existed. Should Germany raze them all, or leave them as a monument with a historical context? I think the reminder of the past is the right thing to do, and similarly for people in Britain.

I don't think anyone would have any problem with keeping a structure or facility that is a useful asset or has intrinsic beauty in itself that just happens to have problematic connections. ISIS/Daesh excluded, even the most zealous religious iconoclasts of history generally retained the places of worship, even if they knocked the heads off every idolatrous statue it contained. It is the statues and other likenesses, whose sole function is to commemorate a particular individual, and often in a very prominent site, that are the problem, and the naming of facilities in honour of such an individual.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

We are going to struggle in the USA. Washington DC etc named after George Washington. I hope I am wrong but I have a horrible feeling this is not going to end well.

 

[MAV39]

Slave trader Edward Colston attended Christs Hospital school in Sussex.

Please check your dates.

Christs Hospital school only opened in Sussex in 1902.

Before that, it was housed in premises in London and Hertford.