Renewing Oyster Railcard discount not possible before expiry?

[miklcct]

My old Railcard will expire on 24/5 which I have renewed for 1 year. I went to a Tube station today but the staff said that it wasn't possible to add a new date while the discount is still active, and told me to come back on 25/5.

However, on that day, my point of entry into the system will be a National Rail-only station (Clapham Junction) which I know I can't register the discount there. I also have no intention to max out the cap on that day. Isn't it possible for me to get the discount extended such that I can still travel with the Oyster discount immediately from Clapham Junction on 25/5?

 

[danm14]

On the face of it, there has to be a way.

What happens if the station staff enter the wrong date? There has to be something more they can do other than saying "we can't correct it, come back on X date" - or worse, "you must stop using this card for a month on X date as we've set the discount for too long"

 

[Watershed]

My old Railcard will expire on 24/5 which I have renewed for 1 year. I went to a Tube station today but the staff said that it wasn't possible to add a new date while the discount is still active, and told me to come back on 25/5.

However, on that day, my point of entry into the system will be a National Rail-only station (Clapham Junction) which I know I can't register the discount there. I also have no intention to max out the cap on that day. Isn't it possible for me to get the discount extended such that I can still travel with the Oyster discount immediately from Clapham Junction on 25/5?

It's definitely possible, they just couldn't be bothered to do it (or being extremely charitable, didn't know how to do it).

I've had Oyster discounts extended plenty of times. There are three discount 'slots' on an Oyster card, meaning you can have discounts that overlap in date or type; the one offering the greatest discount will be applied to any given journey/cap.

 

[miklcct]

It's definitely possible, they just couldn't be bothered to do it (or being extremely charitable, didn't know how to do it).

I've had Oyster discounts extended plenty of times. There are three discount 'slots' on an Oyster card, meaning you can have discounts that overlap in date or type; the one offering the greatest discount will be applied to any given journey/cap.

The station I went today is Tufnell Park. I'll try another station the next time.

It's so inconvenient for me to find a Tube station as I don't take the Tube often, having most of my London travel using National Rail, especially there aren't any Tube stations close to Clapham Junction.

 

[Watershed]

The station I went today is Tufnell Park. I'll try another station the next time.

It's so inconvenient for me to find a Tube station as I don't take the Tube often, having most of my London travel using National Rail, especially there aren't any Tube stations close to Clapham Junction.

There aren't any Tube stations immediately at Clapham Junction, but you could schedule your travel so as to include a break of journey at e.g. Battersea Park, Putney or Balham, as each have nearby Underground stations with OSIs

Obviously there are also Underground stations at all London Termini except Fenchurch Street and there are a variety of OSIs along the North London Line.

 

[OscarH]

They seem to intentionally make it as difficult as possible to add the Oyster discount. It took me several stations to find someone willing to do it, and then King Cross St Pancras did it on the 4th TVM bank, and they were confused by the fact a 3 year railcard existed, and just treated it as a 1 year one

 

[boiledbeans2]

I would suggest sticking to the larger and busier tube stations, e.g., those connected with an NR London Termini.

From my experience, the staff at the smaller tube stations are not that familiar with adding Railcards...

 

[miklcct]

There aren't any Tube stations immediately at Clapham Junction, but you could schedule your travel so as to include a break of journey at e.g. Battersea Park, Putney or Balham, as each have nearby Underground stations with OSIs

Is there a way to travel between Clapham Junction and Gospel Oak, using the tube or Overground only (in order to avoid NR fare) outside zone 1 while having a break at an OSI?

I would suggest sticking to the larger and busier tube stations, e.g., those connected with an NR London Termini.

From my experience, the staff at the smaller tube stations are not that familiar with adding Railcards...

Which tube stations outside zone 1 do you suggest?

I really don't want to get to zone 1 as any evening peak travel through zone 1 will definitely bring my day to the cap.

 

[Jason12]

They seem to intentionally make it as difficult as possible to add the Oyster discount.

That's not my experience. I've requested the discount added on three occasions as the railcard has been renewed and once when I'd lost the Oyster and had a replacement. Each time it's been done quickly and efficiently. It was at a different station each time - Marylebone, Embankment, North Acton and (I think) South Ken.

 

[danm14]

Is there a way to travel between Clapham Junction and Gospel Oak, using the tube or Overground only (in order to avoid NR fare) outside zone 1 while having a break at an OSI?

There are probably better ones, but off the top of my head:

Overground to West Brompton
District Line to Earl's Court
District/Piccadilly Line to Hammersmith
Walk between Hammersmith stations (OSI, 20mins)
Circle/H&C Line to Wood Lane
Walk to White City (OSI, 20mins)
Central Line to Shepherd's Bush
Walk between Shepherd's Bush stations (OSI, 20mins)
Overground to Gospel Oak.

 

[Watershed]

Is there a way to travel between Clapham Junction and Gospel Oak, using the tube or Overground only (in order to avoid NR fare) outside zone 1 while having a break at an OSI?

In that case I'd suggest taking the Overground to Brondesbury, walking the 240m OSI to Kilburn LU, asking the staff there to add the discount for you, then taking the Jubilee line one stop to West Hampstead LU, where you have a second opportunity to have the discount added if you were unsuccessful at Kilburn, then walking the 220m OSI to West Hampstead LO and continuing on to Gospel Oak.

This will cost you the same as if you had done the journey without the OSIs, provided you stay within the overall maximum journey time (90 mins if Mon-Fri before 7pm) and the maximum transfer time for the OSIs (20 minutes in each case).

TfL have released a map under FoI, showing the fare scales and available OSIs. To be charged a TfL-scale fare you need to use solely green or blue lines (and there needs to be a TfL-scale fare to each point where you touch out for an OSI or to end your journey).

 

[Wolfie]

Is there a way to travel between Clapham Junction and Gospel Oak, using the tube or Overground only (in order to avoid NR fare) outside zone 1 while having a break at an OSI?

Yup, the Overground has a direct service, takes about 40mins.

Rats, missed the OSI requirement. I'm sure that there are more effective options but the staff at Highbury and Islington are bloody efficient so if all else fails take the Overground to H&I (either of the North or East London lines would do) and sort things there. Canada Water might be another good option.

 

[717001]

My old Railcard will expire on 24/5 which I have renewed for 1 year. I went to a Tube station today but the staff said that it wasn't possible to add a new date while the discount is still active, and told me to come back on 25/5.

However, on that day, my point of entry into the system will be a National Rail-only station (Clapham Junction) which I know I can't register the discount there. I also have no intention to max out the cap on that day. Isn't it possible for me to get the discount extended such that I can still travel with the Oyster discount immediately from Clapham Junction on 25/5?

Is getting a second Oyster card a possibility?

 

[JBuchananGB]

The should be able to extend the validity to the end of a new 1-year railcard, but my experience was that I had a new 3-year railcard and the Oyster system would not allow a new expiry date more than 3 years into the future. That experience was a few years ago, but I remember it well as the member of staff went through the whole process to extend the validity, but ran into this problem.

 

[furlong]

Someone might like to pursue this more formally with TfL and find out the current situation. As I understood the situation a few years ago, the staff member had to insert a false expiry date less than 12 months away, then you had to return within that period when there was less than 12 months of true validity left to get the date corrected. In other words it needed two transactions and a staff member willing to bend the rules because the system treated dates beyond 12 months into the future as invalid.

 

[Watershed]

The should be able to extend the validity to the end of a new 1-year railcard, but my experience was that I had a new 3-year railcard and the Oyster system would not allow a new expiry date more than 3 years into the future. That experience was a few years ago, but I remember it well as the member of staff went through the whole process to extend the validity, but ran into this problem.

Yes, the expiry date for an Oyster discount cannot be more than 3 years in the future.

The workaround is for the member of staff to set the discount with an expiry date exactly 3 years in the future. But not all members of staff are proactive enough to do that.

 

[MikeWh]

Is getting a second Oyster card a possibility?

Not really.

Someone might like to pursue this more formally with TfL and find out the current situation. As I understood the situation a few years ago, the staff member had to insert a false expiry date less than 12 months away, then you had to return within that period when there was less than 12 months of true validity left to get the date corrected. In other words it needed two transactions and a staff member willing to bend the rules because the system treated dates beyond 12 months into the future as invalid.

Yes, the expiry date for an Oyster discount cannot be more than 3 years in the future.

The workaround is for the member of staff to set the discount with an expiry date exactly 3 years in the future. But not all members of staff are proactive enough to do that.

Initially the max duration was 1 year, then they extended it to 3 years. The problem is that railcards online add a few days for postal delays which means you often need 3 years and a couple of days. I have asked them to fix this, but no luck to date.

The problem with fiddling with the date is that you potentially run the risk of an observant RPI querying the mismatch. My personal recommendation is to knock 1 year off the expiry so it's two years and a couple of days; then get it extended properly as soon as possible after the extra days have been used.

 

[island]

It's definitely possible, they just couldn't be bothered to do it (or being extremely charitable, didn't know how to do it).

I've had Oyster discounts extended plenty of times. There are three discount 'slots' on an Oyster card, meaning you can have discounts that overlap in date or type; the one offering the greatest discount will be applied to any given journey/cap.

This is an accurate summary. Assuming the old and new Railcards are the same type, the staff member would simply set the NR Railcard concession to the later expiry date.

 

[bakerstreet]

The problem with fiddling with the date is that you potentially run the risk of an observant RPI querying the mismatch. My personal recommendation is to knock 1 year off the expiry so it's two years and a couple of days; then get it extended properly as soon as possible after the extra days have been used.

This is good to be aware of.
When I once asked at the station for a 3 year railcard discount to be added to the Oyster it wouldn’t go through because of the 3 year+date. I suggested to the staff member who was helping me if they could do it for 2 years. But he said that he was a revenue inspector (he just happened to be the only staff I could see) and that there is exactly that risk that @MikeWh identifies. He said during a check he would examine the date on the railcard and the date on the Oyster discount and if they didn’t match would be concerned. So he suggested I came back in a few days

 

[Watershed]

Seeing as students can obtain a free 4 year Railcards through a student bank account (the scheme is currently offered by Santander, previously NatWest) I don't see that having a wrong expiry date is itself fatal. Otherwise you couldn't use such a Railcard at all on Oyster during its first year of validity.

When registering the Railcard, the serial number (or at least, the first 5 or so characters of it) are recorded, so it's not as if it could be anyone's Railcard.

 

[PeterC]

They seem to intentionally make it as difficult as possible to add the Oyster discount. It took me several stations to find someone willing to do it, and then King Cross St Pancras did it on the 4th TVM bank, and they were confused by the fact a 3 year railcard existed, and just treated it as a 1 year one

When I had 3 year railcard I was told that only 2 years could be put on the Oyster and I would have to have year 3 put on at the end of year 1.

 

[miklcct]

I've made my way to Waterloo (cheaper to get to Waterloo compared to Clapham Junction from Gospel Oak in peak hours but requires a large detour via Willesden Junction to avoid a gateline) and renewed my discount without hassle.

Also got a new card there as well - I'll take a peak journey on a later date, register it and add the discount afterwards.

 

[freddie1729]

It's so inconvenient for me to find a Tube station as I don't take the Tube often, having most of my London travel using National Rail, especially there aren't any Tube stations close to Clapham Junction.

Theoretically, you can get the discount added at an Oyster Ticket Stop, but in practice I think you'll find it even less likely that a staff member will know how to do it.

 

[island]

Theoretically, you can get the discount added at an Oyster Ticket Stop, but in practice I think you'll find it even less likely that a staff member will know how to do it.

...or be willing to, given they don't earn any commission from the transaction.

 

[Adam Williams]

That's not my experience. I've requested the discount added on three occasions as the railcard has been renewed and once when I'd lost the Oyster and had a replacement. Each time it's been done quickly and efficiently. It was at a different station each time - Marylebone, Embankment, North Acton and (I think) South Ken.

There are so many anecdotes to the contrary though that these 3 positive occasions don't really sway me.

Here's another to add to the pile: I was incorrectly told that a discount couldn't possibly be applied this morning, by staff who didn't know better; Farringdon LU managed it in the end about 15-20 minutes later after that initial failed attempt because I was persistent and was lucky enough to receive advice on where else to try. These aren't isolated incidents.

I'd also argue that requiring pax to talk to staff to get this done is inherently making it as difficult as possible when the rest of the world has realised that allowing this sort of operation to be self-service would be the sensible approach. RDG have an API for verifying railcards...

The bottom line is, if it's a pain (which it objectively is), less people will bother (and either just use contactless or an undiscounted railcard) and TfL benefit as a result. Where's the incentive to change the status quo? As we've seen, it's taken DfT hitting TfL with a stick/offering the carrot of the SE contract for anything to meaningfully progress here (with contactless & National Rail discounts).

 

[MikeWh]

...or be willing to, given they don't earn any commission from the transaction.

I'm aware of a couple of shops who will willingly do it if £5 credit is added at the same time. That seems fair.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I suspect you're being told nonsense. Rail staff have a three-month window to renew their discount, so it must also work for the public. Just a lazy member of staff

 

[Vespa]

When I had 3 year railcard I was told that only 2 years could be put on the Oyster and I would have to have year 3 put on at the end of year 1.

Same for me, the staff I spoke to were helpful on both occasions that I added my disabled railcard both 3 year validity, but they couldn't do more than 2 years.

The trick is to get the staff when it's not busy.

 

[TheManOnThe172]

I'd been living under the illusion that Oyster was a clever and smoothly-delivered service for TfL to be proud of. I even have dim memories of reading that they were offering consultancies to other operators around the world in "how to do it".

But how sad the contrast with reality. I too fell foul of trying to attach a railcard with an over-3-years validity to an Oyster. After over a month of trying to get Oyster to the problem seriously, I did yesterday speak to someone who gave the illusion of caring. She checked and said that the limit was exactly 3 years - and promised to try and get someone to extend the maximum-thinkable-duration of a railcard to 3 years and a week once I had explained the problem (which she had never heard of before).

Even when/if the duration issue gets sorted out, the business of attaching a railcard to an Oyster is miserable, and it hits out-of-town Oyster users disproportionately. The London resident has a reasonable chance to choose a quiet station at a quiet time to find a staff member to attempt the attachment. The out-of-town user arriving by train with a new railcard needs to get it attached at a busy station, and have no chance to "try later" unless they are happy to overpay for their travel in the interim. And at the Travel Stop that I tried, the staff member hadn't a clue that there was even such a thing as attaching a railcard to an Oyster.

Most depressing was that my first attempt at attaching the railcard at a station (before realising the expiry date problem) failed because the card "wasn't registered". I called TFL and asked how I had managed to top up online otherwise: they insisted that it was indeed registered. Wondering whether they had quietly fixed some error when I called, I tried another tube station. Again the same problem: the staff member seemed to be required to enter my postcode. Luckily, I hit a savvy chap who entered a series of zeroes, which seemed to satisfy the system. But I have no idea of whether that fixed the problem, or just over-rode it on that occasion, which would leave me a problem if my next attempt at attaching the railcard met a staff member who didn't know the workaround.

I queried this with the Oyster supervisor on the phone yesterday. Oh, that was a well-known and long-standing problem: even if you register a card online (is there any other way?), the system needs a manual operation at a ticket machine to make it work. That sounds ridiculous. Is this really true, or can anyone here give me a more convincing explanation of why my card kept coming up as "not registered"?

 

[Haywain]

Oyster was a clever and smoothly-delivered service for TfL to be proud of.

The difficulty with 3 year railcards does not make Oyster a bad product/service.

Even when/if the duration issue gets sorted out, the business of attaching a railcard to an Oyster is miserable, and it hits out-of-town Oyster users disproportionately. The London resident has a reasonable chance to choose a quiet station at a quiet time to find a staff member to attempt the attachment. The out-of-town user arriving by train with a new railcard needs to get it attached at a busy station, and have no chance to "try later" unless they are happy to overpay for their travel in the interim. And at the Travel Stop that I tried, the staff member hadn't a clue that there was even such a thing as attaching a railcard to an Oyster.

I have had two railcads attached to Oyster in the last 6 months. In both cases it has been done at Kings Cross St Pancras without undue delay or difficulty. I live outside London as well.

even if you register a card online (is there any other way?),

Yes, it can be registered at a machine when it's in staff mode, but online is far better.

the system needs a manual operation at a ticket machine to make it work. That sounds ridiculous. Is this really true, or can anyone here give me a more convincing explanation of why my card kept coming up as "not registered"?

The manual operation is why you need a member of staff, that's hardly ridiculous. And if your card comes up as not registered, perhaps that's because it isn't.