Renewing Oyster Railcard discount not possible before expiry?

[TheManOnThe172]

And if your card comes up as not registered, perhaps that's because it isn't.

I had checked my account online and it showed the card against the account. I had managed to add credit to it online. Staff on the Oyster phone line had checked and said it was registered.

If, despite this, the card was indeed lacking registration, how do I achieve this? There seems no more to do online, and no problem identified on the phone. But the ticket machine clearly sees something lacking. And the Oyster supervisor who I spoke to this week recognised this as a long-standing issue. And unresolved long-standing issues seem the essence of a poor system.

 

[island]

I queried this with the Oyster supervisor on the phone yesterday. Oh, that was a well-known and long-standing problem: even if you register a card online (is there any other way?), the system needs a manual operation at a ticket machine to make it work. That sounds ridiculous. Is this really true, or can anyone here give me a more convincing explanation of why my card kept coming up as "not registered"?

The “registeredness” of a card is indeed stored on the physical card. Was never really a problem when there were tube ticket offices as you would just complete the form and register it there and then.

A card can still, in theory, be registered at an Oyster Ticket Stop. And presenting a card that thinks it is unregistered on the staff ticket machine menu under Discounts and concessions will prompt entry of a postcode and secret word, which will also serve to set the “registered” flag on the card.

 

[MikeWh]

A card can still, in theory, be registered at an Oyster Ticket Stop.

If they do then they are not following the rules because the handling of the paper forms with personal information does not satisfy GDPR rules.

 

[The 4th Rail]

Just encountered the same problem as the OP. Tried to extend my 16-25 railcard oyster discount at WFH. Staff member claimed it wasn't possible as my current railcard expires on the 04/06.

My next journey will be from Gatwick after my existing railcard expires, does anyone know if staff at Gatwick station are able to apply railcard discounts to Oyster?

 

[island]

They aren't.

 

[The 4th Rail]

That's annoying, thanks for clarifying though.

Guess there isn't much incentive for TfL to simplify the process.

 

[Surreytraveller]

If they do then they are not following the rules because the handling of the paper forms with personal information does not satisfy GDPR rules.

Is that TfL's own rules?

 

[MikeWh]

Is that TfL's own rules?

My understanding is that following a review of GDPR requirements, TfL decided that the transfer of personal information between shops and the central facility was not secure enough, and making it secure would be cost prohibitive.

 

[Surreytraveller]

My understanding is that following a review of GDPR requirements, TfL decided that the transfer of personal information between shops and the central facility was not secure enough, and making it secure would be cost prohibitive.

Makes sense! I presume its easy enough to register one's Oystercard online? I haven't done it for nearly twenty years, but I presume an unregistered one I've got lying around would become registered if I added it to my Oystercard account?

 

[Haywain]

As a side issue, is it possible to see what expiry date has been applied to a railcard discount on an Oyster Card? Just wondering, since I’ve got a 3-year railcard.

 

[island]

As a side issue, is it possible to see what expiry date has been applied to a railcard discount on an Oyster Card? Just wondering, since I’ve got a 3-year railcard.

This can be checked via a London Underground POM, though I think only via staff screens.

 

[eoff]

...

Even when/if the duration issue gets sorted out, the business of attaching a railcard to an Oyster is miserable, and it hits out-of-town Oyster users disproportionately.

I have had this problem a few times of getting a railcard applied again to my Oyster card at the point I arrive in London. I don't understand why this can't be done online, even if it is only on the basis that the same railcard type has previously been applied and seen by a member of staff.

 

[Haywain]

This can be checked via a London Underground POM, though I think only via staff screens.

Thanks. I was a bit surprised that I couldn't see the details on the Oyster website or app.

 

[island]

I have had this problem a few times of getting a railcard applied again to my Oyster card at the point I arrive in London. I don't understand why this can't be done online, even if it is only on the basis that the same railcard type has previously been applied and seen by a member of staff.

This can't be done because the concession entitlement and expiry date are stored on the physical card, which can't be updated unless it's touched to a machine.

 

[OscarH]

This can't be done because the concession entitlement and expiry date are stored on the physical card, which can't be updated unless it's touched to a machine.

But I don't see a major technical reason they couldn't implement it so you can do it online, then it loads onto the card when you tap the gateline/validator, the same as you load credit when you buy it online. There's just no incentive for TfL to do it as it costs them to implement, and harms their revenue to make it less of a faff

 

[Wallsendmag]

But I don't see a major technical reason they couldn't implement it so you can do it online, then it loads onto the card when you tap the gateline/validator, the same as you load credit when you buy it online. There's just no incentive for TfL to do it as it costs them to implement, and harms their revenue to make it less of a faff

Coming to a railway near you soon

 

[eoff]

This can't be done because the concession entitlement and expiry date are stored on the physical card, which can't be updated unless it's touched to a machine.

Mmm, how come I can purchase credit online then? And with a process where I have to nominate a station which implies there is an interaction with the card.

 

[MikeWh]

Mmm, how come I can purchase credit online then? And with a process where I have to nominate a station which implies there is an interaction with the card.

You no longer have to nominate a station, but the purchase is not complete until you have received the topup to your card when you next touch in or out.

If there was a failsafe method of validating the Railcard online then the software could possibly be amended to allow the discount to be added at next touch. Unfortunately there is no Central database for railcards, and even less so for Gold card seasons.

 

[island]

Mmm, how come I can purchase credit online then? And with a process where I have to nominate a station which implies there is an interaction with the card.

You haven't had to nominate a station to collect Oyster top ups for years.

 

[Surreytraveller]

You haven't had to nominate a station to collect Oyster top ups for years.

I think you can even do it on buses now, I believe?

 

[Mawkie]

The “registeredness” of a card is indeed stored on the physical card. Was never really a problem when there were tube ticket offices as you would just complete the form and register it there and then.

A card can still, in theory, be registered at an Oyster Ticket Stop. And presenting a card that thinks it is unregistered on the staff ticket machine menu under Discounts and concessions will prompt entry of a postcode and secret word, which will also serve to set the “registered” flag on the card.

IIRC, there are basically 2 separate systems that recognise an Oyster being 'registered' - and they don't speak to each other! One is the online, self service, registration and the other is the system that allows the station ticket vending machines (TVMs) to allow discounts to be added.

I recall asking people to fill in the forms required to add (in this case, PRIVs) to their Oysters. I then had to re-enter the secure suite (behind the TVMs) and input those details on the TOM/SAF (don't recall what that stands for, but station computer) and then have the passenger write down their password on a piece of paper that I then inputted for them as they obviously weren't allowed into the secure suite! That meant I had the names, addresses, DOB, and passwords (in this case it was a family, so included the NR staff member's children too). This was circa 2015 I guess. The paperwork was a dodgy system even then.

So there was a weird 'double registration' system even then. Later on, I would fake the registration on the TVM by inputting the station postcode instead of all that TOM/SAF nonsense.

Edit: When did ticket offices close on LU? Could have been early 2016 when this happened.

 

[greyman42]

I suspect you're being told nonsense. Rail staff have a three-month window to renew their discount, so it must also work for the public. Just a lazy member of staff

Correct. I have rail staff discounted Oyster and tried to extend it at Kings Cross northern ticket hall and was told it could not be renewed until the current discount expired! I knew that this was not the case so went to the other ticket hall at Kings Cross and a member of staff did it without any bother. Make of that what you will.