Reopening Timperley - Cadishead to shorten the route of the Drax biomass service

[507020]

As we know, the loaded biomass service to Drax must have a scenic tour of Cheshire via Earlestown, the Hartford Curve and Northwich before reaching the former Skelton Junction in order to avoid the incline at Miles Platting, which it is too heavy to climb. Such a heavy train must burn a lot of excess Diesel on such a circuitous route.

Looking at a map, it strikes me that reopening from Cadishead - Timperley (or more specifically Skelton Junction) and allowing it to use the CLC line would be a significant shortening of the route, while allowing it to retain its Manchester orbital path to Stockport, Heaton Norris Junction, Denton Junction and then either Standedge or Brewery Junction and I have calculated the exact saving to be 18 miles 53 chains per trip over the aforementioned route.

Surely the cost of Diesel saved alone would be enough to pay for the reopening of a shorter route, but more importantly, I don’t believe there is currently any freight on the CLC line other than that from Trafford Park, while the WCML and Mid Cheshire Line seem quite congested. This would free up capacity on the WCML through Winwick Junction, Warrington Bank Quay and Weaver Junction and also on the Mid Cheshire Line, which could possibly create capacity for an increased frequency 2tph passenger service to Chester or a new service to Middlewich. I do wish something like this would become more likely.

 

[edwin_m]

There are two good reasons why there is no freight on the CLC.

Firstly, it doesn't connect to any freight facilities on Merseyside, except by one or more reversals. How would this work at the Liverpool end?

Secondly, for much of the day it's 100% utilised due to the combination of fast and slow passenger trains.

 

[507020]

There are two good reasons why there is no freight on the CLC.

Firstly, it doesn't connect to any freight facilities on Merseyside, except by one or more reversals. How would this work at the Liverpool end?

Secondly, for much of the day it's 100% utilised due to the combination of fast and slow passenger trains.

Obviously it would have to reverse at Edge Hill, as freight traffic not running directly from Seaforth to Earlestown via the Olive Mount chord already does to reach Runcorn and then use the Allerton curve. That might be the most difficult part of the whole route.

Is 4tph with no freight the absolute limit of capacity on the CLC line? That seems very poor to me. Would non-stop freight not be able to be pathed in between fast and slow passenger traffic, not catching the express and not being caught by the stopper?

Also are passengers on the Mid Cheshire line supposed to make do with 1tph forever because freight can’t use a more direct route?

 

[Nottingham59]

Ask Drax if they can ship the biomass into Immingham instead.

 

[The Planner]

Surely the cost of Diesel saved alone would be enough to pay for the reopening of a shorter route, but more importantly, I don’t believe there is currently any freight on the CLC line other than that from Trafford Park, while the WCML and Mid Cheshire Line seem quite congested. This would free up capacity on the WCML through Winwick Junction, Warrington Bank Quay and Weaver Junction and also on the Mid Cheshire Line, which could possibly create capacity for an increased frequency 2tph passenger service to Chester or a new service to Middlewich. I do wish something like this would become more likely.

It wouldn't even make a dent in the cost of reinstating it. Even banking to get up Miles Platting would be immeasurably cheaper.

 

[507020]

Ask Drax if they can ship the biomass into Immingham instead.

Clearly with the biomass coming from America, sailing all the way around the British Isles to the other side would be an even bigger waste of Diesel than the scenic tour of Cheshire from the Port of Liverpool…

It wouldn't even make a dent in the cost of reinstating it. Even banking to get up Miles Platting would be immeasurably cheaper.

With the price of Diesel high and able to rise further, how much does it cost to haul a fully laden biomass train 18 miles 53 chains unnecessary, how long will this continue until Drax is replaced by superior renewables (barring other TransPennine rail freight needing to avoid Miles Platting materialising before then) and how much would it cost to reinstate a single track on land in the ownership of Network Rail? There must be some sort of a dent in the long term.

 

[The Planner]

Without all the figures you cannot do a meaningful comparison?. An old thread on here suggests a 66 uses 9.5 litres per mile on a laden train. Seeing as FOCs are going to be using red diesel and probably not paying VAT etc on it, its probably cheaper than what Google says red diesel is at 106p per litre at the moment. So £10.07 a mile. Multiplied by 19 miles is £191 per journey. Lets call it £200 to make it easy. So 5000 journeys to get to a million quid. Reopening is going to be be many multiples of that. Plucking £50 million as a random number then you need 250000 trains to break even. RTT suggests about 7 per day, so 35700 days or 98 years. Happy for some schoolboy errors to be pointed out as Im doing this on a phone whilst watching TV.

 

[zwk500]

Clearly with the biomass coming from America, sailing all the way around the British Isles to the other side would be an even bigger waste of Diesel than the scenic tour of Cheshire from the Port of Liverpool…

Shipping is by far the cheapest mode of transport per ton/km.

With the price of Diesel high and able to rise further, how much does it cost to haul a fully laden biomass train 18 miles 53 chains unnecessary, how long will this continue until Drax is replaced by superior renewables (barring other TransPennine rail freight needing to avoid Miles Platting materialising before then) and how much would it cost to reinstate a single track on land in the ownership of Network Rail? There must be some sort of a dent in the long term.

The Savings of the Fuel cost wouldn't even cover the increase in the maintenance budget, let alone pay for the cost of the line. 20 miles is really not very much in the scheme of things.

 

[edwin_m]

Obviously it would have to reverse at Edge Hill, as freight traffic not running directly from Seaforth to Earlestown via the Olive Mount chord already does to reach Runcorn and then use the Allerton curve. That might be the most difficult part of the whole route.

Is 4tph with no freight the absolute limit of capacity on the CLC line? That seems very poor to me. Would non-stop freight not be able to be pathed in between fast and slow passenger traffic, not catching the express and not being caught by the stopper?

Also are passengers on the Mid Cheshire line supposed to make do with 1tph forever because freight can’t use a more direct route?

A freight train can run 20-30 miles in the time it takes to run round, so this would be significant in rolling stock utilisation if not in fuel.
The timetable on the CLC has a stopper leaving Oxford Road a few minutes after the fast, and getting to Lime Street a few minutes before the next one, and similarly in the other direction. Even with this timetable the stopper has to skip some stops, leading to some very poor services at the less important stations. The freight would be probably a bit faster than the stopper, so might be fitted in ahead of it in both directions west of Glazebrook, but would still face flat junction conflicts there, at the two Allerton junctions and where it is slowly entering or leaving its run-round at Edge Hill.

 

[Philip]

Would running to Farrington Junction and then across to the Calder Valley line not be a better option for saving some miles/time?

 

[HSTEd]

Clearly with the biomass coming from America, sailing all the way around the British Isles to the other side would be an even bigger waste of Diesel than the scenic tour of Cheshire from the Port of Liverpool…

I am not entirely sure that would be the case, given the extreme efficiency of deep sea shipping.

More important it would remove these long slow trains from a highly congested railway system and allow for improved passenger service - which would likely save far more diesel than a freight train will ever burn.

 

[Sonik]

With the price of Diesel high and able to rise further, how much does it cost to haul a fully laden biomass train 18 miles 53 chains unnecessary, how long will this continue until Drax is replaced by superior renewables (barring other TransPennine rail freight needing to avoid Miles Platting materialising before then) and how much would it cost to reinstate a single track on land in the ownership of Network Rail? There must be some sort of a dent in the long term.

There is a question about the long term viability of Drax. Their strike price is more than Hinkley Point (itself controversial) and there is a view held in the energy industry that their CFD won't get renewed past expiry in 2027 due to the high political sensitivity around the sustainability (or lack thereof) of biomass. Lobbying from Drax on the issue seems increasingly desperate, with the focus now on BECCS which will simply add additional costs making even Nuclear look cheap.

Their only hope really is sustained high energy prices, or the possible energy gap left by retiring AGR stations, before HPC and SZC come online. The coal stations closed because they were uneconomic and I'm not sure Drax would fare any better on the open market. Perhaps it will remain past 2027 only as an emergency backup, in which case fuel demand would be much reduced.

Given all this I think it's highly unlikely that any upgrades at all would be made to facilitate Drax trains, as this could turn into an embarrassing repeat for NR of the Shaftholme flyover, which essentially became redundant not long after completion, due to the rapid closure of coal power stations.

 

[zwk500]

Would running to Farrington Junction and then across to the Calder Valley line not be a better option for saving some miles/time?

It depends if there's a path for a 2400 tonne freight between Wigan NW and Euxton Junction.

 

[Efini92]

It wouldn't even make a dent in the cost of reinstating it. Even banking to get up Miles Platting would be immeasurably cheaper.

Shame there’s no wall side pilot at Victoria anymore.

 

[Bald Rick]

There is a question about the long term viability of Drax. Their strike price is more than Hinkley Point (itself controversial) and there is a view held in the energy industry that their CFD won't get renewed past expiry in 2027 due to the high political sensitivity around the sustainability (or lack thereof) of biomass. Lobbying from Drax on the issue seems increasingly desperate, with the focus now on BECCS which will simply add additional costs making even Nuclear look cheap.

This. Drax has a charmed life ahead of it. It is certainly conceivable that it is closed before the end of the decade. At the very least I expect it to be reduced in output.

 

[Killingworth]

Leaving aside Drax traffic; what else could usefully benefit from a Timperley-Cadishead reopening?

Cross Pennine biomass traffic has also been used to potentially boost SELRAP's reopening case.

All this globe trotting biomass seems well able to come in through Immingham, the Tees or the Tyne without crossing the Pennines.

The time and money required before a reopened line can be operational says biomass traffic can't be the only driver for a successful scheme. It'll have burned itself out well before there could be any pay back.

 

[chorleyjeff]

It depends if there's a path for a 2400 tonne freight between Wigan NW and Euxton Junction.

Indeed yes. Would be a slow climb to Boars Head.

 

[Efini92]

This. Drax has a charmed life ahead of it. It is certainly conceivable that it is closed before the end of the decade. At the very least I expect it to be reduced in output.

When they awarded the contract for the biomass, wasn’t it for longer than the plant will be open for?

 

[Killingworth]

When they awarded the contract for the biomass, wasn’t it for longer than the plant will be open for?

In all probability there'll be a lot of surplus biomass railway wagons going spare before they're life expired. To add to all those leftover from coal.

 

[Sonik]

In all probability there'll be a lot of surplus biomass railway wagons going spare before they're life expired. To add to all those leftover from coal.

Like the coal wagons other uses can be found, with modifications.

Old wagons never seem to die!

 

[Killingworth]

Like the coal wagons other uses can be found, with modifications.

Old wagons never seem to die!

That might be subject for a new thread. 30 years ago around north Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, and both South and West Yorkshire there were still hundreds of coal wagons in active service. Then the coal trade quickly died away. Subsequently I recall passing long lines of laid up wagons in what seems like quite recent years. I'd have thought the sheer numbers couldn't all have been repurposed, other than as scrap.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Timperley to Cadishead would be better as a Castlefield bypass for Trafford Park than the Drax biomass trains.

 

[Kite159]

I dread to think how much it would cost to bring the currently disused Cadishead viaduct over the Ship Canal back to a condition where fully loaded biomass trains can cross over it.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I dread to think how much it would cost to bring the currently disused Cadishead viaduct over the Ship Canal back to a condition where fully loaded biomass trains can cross over it.

The viaduct was closed in 1984 due to it being deemed uneconomical to repair with corrosion of the bridge deck over the Ship Canal being a particular problem. 38 years of subsequent neglect is bound to have made things even worse. It would very likely need a complete replacement of the whole span at a cost running into 8 figures (at least). No hope of that being viable. This idea is a non-starter.

 

[Sonik]

Timperley to Cadishead would be better as a Castlefield bypass for Trafford Park than the Drax biomass trains.

Regardless the viability of restoring Cadishead, I'd say alternate access to Trafford Park away from central Manchester should be a priority.

There would be a valuable knock-on benefit to local passenger services as well as for the freight traffic.

 

[The Planner]

Regardless the viability of restoring Cadishead, I'd say alternate access to Trafford Park away from central Manchester should be a priority.

There would be a valuable knock-on benefit to local passenger services as well as for the freight traffic.

You are faced with solving the WCML north of Crewe regardless to do that, HS2 to Golborne anyone?