Repeated fraudulent use of Freedom Pass before being caught. Help please.

[odynias]

hey everyone, this might not be the right place for this (new to this site) but..

just wondering what the implications would be for someone who has used someone else's freedom pass many many times before getting caught would be?

1. is there a record of every time it has been used?
2. if so is it likely to end in a criminal conviction which is reflected on one's record?

my friend is really worried about this as they are still young(early20s) and has never offended and is worried it may negatively impact their future prospects

Please help!!!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

hey everyone, this might not be the right place for this (new to this site) but..

just wondering what the implications would be for someone who has used someone else's freedom pass many many times before getting caught would be?

1. is there a record of every time it has been used?
2. if so is it likely to end in a criminal conviction which is reflected on one's record?

my friend is really worried about this as they are still young(early20s) and has never offended and is worried it may negatively impact their future prospects

Please help!!!

Has your friend been caught? If so, on what mode of transport - non-TfL (i.e. National Rail) or TfL (trams, buses, Tube, Overground, TfL Rail)?

Is this really your friend we are talking about or is it you? I somewhat suspect it's the latter given your manner of writing but I could be wrong.

 

[odynias]

Hi ForTheLoveOf thanks for the quick response - yes it was me, saw right through that!

It happened on the tube, TfL and yes I was caught tapping out using it.

This is what happened to the best of my recollection:

The TfL employee stopped me then proceeded to take down my details and begin with the questioning.
They asked if I had used it previously to which I responded i couldn't remember and that i had just used it now.
After asking this they then cautioned me regarding remaining silent etc (which i found peculiar given they should have cautioned before asking questions?)
They then started asking another question to which I responded that I don't have to answer that (they the wrote down the fact I had said that).
I asked them why they are writing stuff down and they said its evidence in case it goes to court and then confiscated the card is it was considered evidence

I asked what happens now and they said that I would receive a letter to which I have an opportunity to respond and that I may get a fine after however upon reading online forums and doing some research its become clear a criminal conviction is a possibility - which is an incredibly devastating thought, I haven't been able to sleep or eat properly since

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hi ForTheLoveOf thanks for the quick response - yes it was me, saw right through that!

It happened on the tube, TfL and yes I was caught tapping out using it.

This is what happened to the best of my recollection:

The TfL employee stopped me then proceeded to take down my details and begin with the questioning.
They asked if I had used it previously to which I responded i couldn't remember and that i had just used it now.
After asking this they then cautioned me regarding remaining silent etc (which i found peculiar given they should have cautioned before asking questions?)
They then started asking another question to which I responded that I don't have to answer that (they the wrote down the fact I had said that).
I asked them why they are writing stuff down and they said its evidence in case it goes to court and then confiscated the card is it was considered evidence

I asked what happens now and they said that I would receive a letter to which I have an opportunity to respond and that I may get a fine after however upon reading online forums and doing some research its become clear a criminal conviction is a possibility - which is an incredibly devastating thought, I haven't been able to sleep or eat properly since

Well, there's nothing much you can do for now. You'll simply have to wait until you get a letter from TfL.

I have to say the prospects of avoiding a conviction are not great in the circumstances. You might like to read through TfL's Revenue Protection policy - it details their general intentions when it comes to prosecuting incidents.

Of course, a major question will be whether you were aware that you were using the Freedom Pass. If there was a genuine mistake about it (which we have heard of before - see other cases in this forum section), you will want to convince TfL of this if you want to come to a settlement.

If it was knowingful misuse I don't see any reason for TfL not to go for a prosecution under Section 5(3)(a) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. This does involve a fine and a criminal record, which is spent after one year.

You suggest that a criminal conviction would be devastating - is this because of your career, or your immigration status, or something else? Perhaps we can clarify what the impact would be if you let us know where your concerns there originate.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

In terms of whether they will know whether you have used the card on other occasions:

As I understand it, Freedom passes have to tap in and out in the same way as an Oyster does. So TfL will know when and where the card was used before. But it doesn't automatically follow that it was you (rather than the Freedom card's owner) using it.

But I can think of 3 reasons why TfL might be able to show that it was you using the card:
- you were caught at station A at XX:XX o'clock - and the records show that the card is always used at that time and that station. I would understand TfL inferring that if it was you on the day that you were caught, it was you on every other day.
- there is CCTV showing you using the card on other occasions. This is fairly unlikely in that most CCTV operators only keep recordings if they think they will need them in court, so TfL will probably have thrown the recordings away. But this brings us on to
- TfL may have realised what you were doing, and were collecting evidence before you were stopped and challenged. Not everything is done by computer: it may very well be that the friendly guy by the ticket line has noticed what you were doing and has reported you.

We can't advise you to lie to get a lighter punishment: that would be wrong, and land you in deeper trouble if you were found out. So don't spend time on trying to deny using the pass on previous occasions: instead, try to work out exactly when you did use it, so that if TfL suggest that you used it even more, you can challenge them with the facts.

 

[najaB]

1. is there a record of every time it has been used?
2. if so is it likely to end in a criminal conviction which is reflected on one's record?

1. Yes, Oyster Card / Freedom Pass usage is recorded, though it's my understanding that normally the records are only kept for eight weeks.

2. TfL are more likely to prosecute than not so the odds are that you will end up with a conviction that will appear on your record for at least one year.

 

[odynias]

I see - thanks for the responses everyone

Its been used for a few months now almost daily so its not looking great - possibly a few hundred pounds worth in fares.

My main worry is the impact on career as I've just started working in the banking sector after finishing higher education - such a stupid thing to do on my part and if it goes all the way to conviction (which is looking highly likely) it may ruin any future work opportunities.

I am more than happy to pay whatever sum TfL deem appropriate however it seems after reading some of the posts here they may skip over any opportunity for an out of court settlement and proceed with prosecution.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

My main worry is the impact on career as I've just started working in the banking sector after finishing higher education - such a stupid thing to do on my part and if it goes all the way to conviction (which is looking highly likely) it may ruin any future work opportunities.

This is a concern that comes up fairly often, so you may get some idea of the advice that we tend to give by looking at other threads. But in brief:
- a single conviction may not be career ending, but lying about it to your employer may end your career. Be prepared to be honest and have a very difficult discussion with your employer
- we understand that banking relies on a high level of trust, so they may be more severe than other employers.
- if you have a union or staff association that deals with employment matters, see if you can talk to them in confidence to find out what is likely to happen.

 

[some bloke]

My main worry is the impact on career as I've just started working in the banking sector after finishing higher education - such a stupid thing to do on my part and if it goes all the way to conviction (which is looking highly likely) it may ruin any future work opportunities.

Depending on the type of work, this may be useful:

https://www.gov.uk/exoffenders-and-employment

(The page has an error about the standard rehabilitation period for under-18s, which is in fact 6 months for people who are fined rather than a year. But apart from that, it's what the government is telling you the law is).

The main document mentioned here has more detail:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-guidance-on-the-rehabilitation-of-offenders-act-1974

This is information on types of criminal record check:
https://www.gov.uk/criminal-record-checks-apply-role

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I see - thanks for the responses everyone

Its been used for a few months now almost daily so its not looking great - possibly a few hundred pounds worth in fares.

My main worry is the impact on career as I've just started working in the banking sector after finishing higher education - such a stupid thing to do on my part and if it goes all the way to conviction (which is looking highly likely) it may ruin any future work opportunities.

I am more than happy to pay whatever sum TfL deem appropriate however it seems after reading some of the posts here they may skip over any opportunity for an out of court settlement and proceed with prosecution.

With that frequency of misuse, I would have to be honest and say that you are going to find it exceptionally difficult to avoid prosecution.

Have a look at the sentencing guidelines on the Sentencing Council's website. Your best bet, if prosecution is unavoidable, is to plead guilty at the earliest opportunity (note - this means after you are asked to plead guilty or not guilty, not before). If you did that, I might hazard a guess that the sentence might be as follows.

Category 2 offence based on there being high revenue loss but (I'm assuming, from your account) no aggressive, abusive or disruptive behaviour.

That puts the starting point of the penalty upon conviction as a Band B fine. The sentencing range is a Band A to a Band C fine.

Non-statutory aggravating factors would be avoiding paying any of the fare, as well as producing a pass with intent to pass as a legitimate fare-payer. There may be further statutory aggravating factors depending on your history.

Mitigating factors would be remorse (if you can prove this to the satisfaction of the Court) and no previous convictions (assuming this is the case).

Overall I would have thought that a sentence in the high range of Band B, i.e. towards 125% of weekly income, might be handed down. But then again, I am not a solicitor or a judge so this is just a guess.

At the end of the day, it's understandable that you now regret what you did but there is ultimately no good justification for fare evasion and you knew what you were doing so I can't say I'm massively sympathetic, sorry!

 

[30907]

The only point I think worth adding is that TfL might choose only to prosecute you for the offence under the Byelaws of not having a valid ticket on the date you were caught. This is a less serious offence and non-recordable (and might carry a lesser fine)

This is what happened in this recent case which is rather like yours:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...caught-and-received-a-letter-from-tfl.173719/

Obviously I can't say what TfL will decide in your case, and you will have to wait for them to be in touch.

 

[najaB]

This is what happened in this recent case which is rather like yours...

Remember though, past performance is no guarantee of future results. Each case is judged on its own merits, and I got the impression that the OP in that other thread had used their mother's pass a few times, rather [than] regularly over a few months. Plus they had a plausible explanation as to how they came to use the pass (more than one similar looking card in the same wallet).

Edit: Added missing 'than'.

 

[island]

It’s also worth noting that a number of roles in banking allow employers to request a standard DBS check, which would show up spent convictions.

 

[30907]

Remember though, past performance is no guarantee of future results. Each case is judged on its own merits, and I got the impression that the OP in that other thread had used their mother's pass a few times, rather regularly over a few months. Plus they had a plausible explanation as to how they came to use the pass (more than one similar looking card in the same wallet).

Quite so, and I certainly wouldn't want to raise false hopes. As in the previous case it will depend, I suspect, on how much evidence TfL have.

 

[some bloke]

You might like to get legal advice earlier rather than later. Among other things, that could let you discuss the interaction you had with the staff member in more detail than you could on this forum.

They asked if I had used it previously to which I responded i couldn't remember and that i had just used it now.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I asked what happens now and they said that I would receive a letter to which I have an opportunity to respond and that I may get a fine after however upon reading online forums and doing some research its become clear a criminal conviction is a possibility - which is an incredibly devastating thought, I haven't been able to sleep or eat properly since

Just going back to post #3, as there's a point where you might be seeing things as worse than they are.

A 'criminal conviction' is what you get when you lose in the criminal courts. The 'sentence' is the punishment imposed. And that sentence may be a fine.

So getting a criminal conviction does not necessarily mean that you are going to prison - and in practice, being sent to prison for fare-dodging is almost unheard of, unless there are other offences which make things worse, or that convince the judge/magistrate that getting someone inside is the only way that they will sort their life out.

If it was the thought of going to prison that was worrying you, relax - unless there's some aggravating circumstance that you haven't mentioned, that won't happen. If you are convicted you will have to pay a fine, and that will be a lot of money to you - but that's the nature of punishments: they're not meant to be nice.

 

[some bloke]

The OP's main concern seems to be the fact of conviction, rather than prison or the level of fine.

The problem may be that as a career progresses, avoiding jobs involving a standard DBS check becomes more difficult. That check would reveal spent convictions.

Both courses may be advisable:

Legal advice now.
Reflection.

My main worry is the impact on career as I've just started working in the banking sector