Replacement bus services on strike days?

[TheManOnThe172]

EMR say:

"Strike action by the ASLEF union takes place on Wednesday 31 May and Saturday 3 June. On these dates, no rail or rail replacement services will operate on EMR routes."

Where rail services are replaced by buses for a solid period (eg Derby-Matlock 27 May to 11 Jun), why are bus services withdrawn on ASLEF strike days?

 

[OneOfThe48]

I would assume because the rail services the buses are replacing wouldn’t be running if the line were open.

 

[Goldfish62]

I would assume because the rail services the buses are replacing wouldn’t be running if the line were open.

There used to be a time when the railways tried to cover as much of the network as possible on strike days, including by drafting in buses. But that was before they got bailed out by the government. They have no incentive to provide anything now. Easy money.

 

[OneOfThe48]

There used to be a time when the railways tried to cover as much of the network as possible on strike days, including by drafting in buses. But that was before they got bailed out by the government. They have no incentive to provide anything now. Easy money.

Indeed, though I do think it would be almost impossible to arrange busses to cover most service routes in England at the same time with a respectable frequency

 

[30907]

There used to be a time when the railways tried to cover as much of the network as possible on strike days, including by drafting in buses.

When did BR start doing that? I worked (in a non-striking union!) through strikes around 1980 and I don’t recall such attempts.

 

[RT4038]

There used to be a time when the railways tried to cover as much of the network as possible on strike days, including by drafting in buses.

When was that?

When did BR start doing that? I worked (in a non-striking union!) through strikes around 1980 and I don’t recall such attempts.

BR never did. Prior to the later 80s it simply would not have been possible in terms of the industrial relations culture of the time.

 

[Goldfish62]

When did BR start doing that? I worked (in a non-striking union!) through strikes around 1980 and I don’t recall such attempts.

I never mentioned BR.

During a number of disputes early in the SWT franchise Stagecoach drafted in buses and drivers from far and wide, including Scotland.

Now the railways can't even be bothered to run the buses they've already committed to, even though the bus companies themselves aren't on strike. Hopefully the bus operators get a 100% cancellation fee for being messed around.

 

[dk1]

When did BR start doing that? I worked (in a non-striking union!) through strikes around 1980 and I don’t recall such attempts.

Me neither. All rail strikes I’ve known have a clear message of do not travel as no replacements will be offered. My memory goes back to 1982 & the flexible rostering dispute in this respect.

I note this was changed to SWT but wanted to get my six penneth in lol.

 

[30907]

I never mentioned BR.
During a number of disputes early in the SWT franchise Stagecoach drafted in buses and drivers from far and wide, including Scotland.

No, sorry, but I read your post as implying that it was a long established general practice.

 

[Mainline421]

I would assume because the rail services the buses are replacing wouldn’t be running if the line were open.

Why are bus services withdrawn on ASLEF strike days?

 

[Goldfish62]

No, sorry, but I read your post as implying that it was a long established general practice.

No worries.

 

[dk1]

Why are bus services withdrawn on ASLEF strike days?

I suppose there are no other services for RR buses to link to. Also why pay for a replacement service when a strike enables a TOC not to do so?

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Why are bus services withdrawn on ASLEF strike days?

The Didcot–Oxford replacement buses will still be running this Friday/Saturday.

 

[SeanG]

Why are bus services withdrawn on ASLEF strike days?

You would have to find bus drivers willing to work them too, and being that many are members of unions too, one would hope that some solidarity would be shown

 

[Bletchleyite]

There used to be a time when the railways tried to cover as much of the network as possible on strike days, including by drafting in buses. But that was before they got bailed out by the government. They have no incentive to provide anything now. Easy money.

Was certainly done for the major First NW weekend strikes in the early 2000s. Some quite fancy coaches got used which were a big upgrade on a Pacer or 150/2.

You would have to find bus drivers willing to work them too, and being that many are members of unions too, one would hope that some solidarity would be shown

Sympathetic striking is illegal.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

You would have to find bus drivers willing to work them too, and being that many are members of unions too, one would hope that some solidarity would be shown

If directed to work by the employer as part of their contract these drivers would be expected to work. Just because they might support what the railway staff are striking for does not give them the right to strike. I am a teacher and have been in on every recent teachers' strike day as my union did not get a mandate for strike action.

 

[dk1]

Sympathetic striking is illegal.

Not if it’s voluntary. As ASLEF members many of us refuse to come off roster or do overtime if our RMT colleagues are striking.

 

[philosopher]

Indeed, though I do think it would be almost impossible to arrange busses to cover most service routes in England at the same time with a respectable frequency

While obviously you can’t replace trains with buses on all or most routes during strikes, I would have thought they could at least do this for certain routes. For example to ensure major airports and locations that are otherwise inaccessible by public transport are served by a rail replacement bus.

 

[MikeWM]

It is buses between Ely and Cambridge (again) this weekend.

It seems GN aren't bothering to run any buses at all tomorrow, despite usually having a twice-an-hour service running on strike days between the two.

GA by contrast has an almost-normal timetable tomorrow, including running buses - though just one bus an hour between Ely and Cambridge on a Saturday sounds like a recipe for disaster...

 

[richw]

Why are bus services withdrawn on ASLEF strike days?

Not sure about England/ Scotland but in Wales under devolved legislation the Trade Union Act (Wales) 2017 makes it illegal to bring in alternative labour to cover strikers. Rail replacement buses would fall under this.

 

[TheManOnThe172]

Not sure about England/ Scotland but in Wales under devolved legislation the Trade Union Act (Wales) 2017 makes it illegal to bring in alternative labour to cover strikers. Rail replacement buses would fall under this.

But if the strike falls in the middle of a period when a line is closed for engineering works, the bus drivers wouldn't be covering strikers. Having announced the engineering work, the scheduled service would be a bus. If a strike of train drivers is subsequently announced, then it would appear that either the bus operator is declining to honour the booking on strike days (on what basis?) or the TOC is choosing to cancel a service that they had presumably already contracted to buy in. Would the TOC's contract with the bus company allow them to avoid the cost of that day's service if they made such a cancellation? If Yes, then it seems penny-pinching to cancel, and if No, it seems vindictive to passengers whose journey would have been covered by the replacement bus.

 

[Watershed]

But if the strike falls in the middle of a period when a line is closed for engineering works, the bus drivers wouldn't be covering strikers. Having announced the engineering work, the scheduled service would be a bus. If a strike of train drivers is subsequently announced, then it would appear that either the bus operator is declining to honour the booking on strike days (on what basis?) or the TOC is choosing to cancel a service that they had presumably already contracted to buy in. Would the TOC's contract with the bus company allow them to avoid the cost of that day's service if they made such a cancellation? If Yes, then it seems penny-pinching to cancel, and if No, it seems vindictive to passengers whose journey would have been covered by the replacement bus.

It's not the bus operator cancelling it. It's the TOC. It's not so much about the cost of the day's service as the (completely wrong IMHO) principle that "we don't provide replacement buses on strike days". Can't say whether the TOC would still have to pay for the replacement buses - that would depend on the terms of their contract with their replacement bus provider and likely the amount of notice provided, but either way it's utterly ludicrous.

 

[Mainline421]

Not sure about England/ Scotland but in Wales under devolved legislation the Trade Union Act (Wales) 2017 makes it illegal to bring in alternative labour to cover strikers. Rail replacement buses would fall under this.

Not sure of the legal position but that clearly hasn't been an issue in the past, SWR had most of their network covered with PUGs for a month at one point. Edit: As I suspected this doesn't seem to be the case anyway https://www.gov.uk/if-your-business-faces-industrial-action/nonunion-employees-and-strikes

If it is was already scheduled as a bus this clearly would never apply anyway unless there's a bus strike.

 

[richw]

But if the strike falls in the middle of a period when a line is closed for engineering works, the bus drivers wouldn't be covering strikers. Having announced the engineering work, the scheduled service would be a bus. If a strike of train drivers is subsequently announced, then it would appear that either the bus operator is declining to honour the booking on strike days (on what basis?) or the TOC is choosing to cancel a service that they had presumably already contracted to buy in. Would the TOC's contract with the bus company allow them to avoid the cost of that day's service if they made such a cancellation? If Yes, then it seems penny-pinching to cancel, and if No, it seems vindictive to passengers whose journey would have been covered by the replacement bus.

It’s probably worse to provide a bus service on strike days if no connecting trains are running than to cancel them.

I want to travel A to B via C, rail replacement running A-C would then leave me stuck at C with no onward travel to B. That wouldn’t be a good position to put customers in

 

[nr758123]

But if the strike falls in the middle of a period when a line is closed for engineering works, the bus drivers wouldn't be covering strikers. Having announced the engineering work, the scheduled service would be a bus. If a strike of train drivers is subsequently announced, then it would appear that either the bus operator is declining to honour the booking on strike days (on what basis?) or the TOC is choosing to cancel a service that they had presumably already contracted to buy in.

There was a strike day within the period of the recent Stalybridge closure - possibly Thursday 16 March - when the planned replacement bus service ran.

 

[Kite159]

Looking at RTT and other sites, looks like the replacement buses which were scheduled to run between Huddersfield & Leeds are still showing as running. You can even buy a ticket (not like it will probably get checked!)

Attached is a screenshot from the forums ticket site offering tickets tomorrow morning from Dewsbury to Leeds

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

It’s probably worse to provide a bus service on strike days if no connecting trains are running than to cancel them.

I want to travel A to B via C, rail replacement running A-C would then leave me stuck at C with no onward travel to B. That wouldn’t be a good position to put customers in

+1

This is exactly the reason why RRS are withdrawn on strike days.

 

[Watershed]

+1

This is exactly the reason why RRS are withdrawn on strike days.

Except there is already the precedent that a limited train service is offered on strike days - which may well have exactly the same effect.

Providing nothing is almost never going to be worse than providing something. This industry position that your post reflects is emblematic of everything that's wrong with the industry's attitude to customer service.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Except there is already the precedent that a limited train service is offered on strike days - which may well have exactly the same effect.

Providing nothing is almost never going to be worse than providing something. This industry position that your post reflects is emblematic of everything that's wrong with the industry's attitude to customer service.

I’m afraid you’re just wrong here.

If there’s a limited train service to connect into, then the buses will likely run. But if there’s no onward connection into a train at the interchange point, then it would be farcical to run the buses. No matter how well strikes are publicised people will still turn up completely unaware that the normal service isn’t running. (My next door neighbour did exactly this yesterday, turned up at our local station en-route to a restaurant date for a train that wasn’t running because of the ASLEF strike.) At least if they find out there’s no service at their home station, they can change their plans without further inconvenience. If they don’t find out until they’re getting OFF the bus at the other end, I suspect staff would be in danger of assault.

 

[Mainline421]

I’m afraid you’re just wrong here.

If there’s a limited train service to connect into, then the buses will likely run. But if there’s no onward connection into a train at the interchange point, then it would be farcical to run the buses. No matter how well strikes are publicised people will still turn up completely unaware that the normal service isn’t running. (My next door neighbour did exactly this yesterday, turned up at our local station en-route to a restaurant date for a train that wasn’t running because of the ASLEF strike.) At least if they find out there’s no service at their home station, they can change their plans without further inconvenience. If they don’t find out until they’re getting OFF the bus at the other end, I suspect staff would be in danger of assault.

By that logic, there should be no service anywhere on any strike day, since people will show up expecting to travel to various destinations, only to find out that they can't! I actually witnessed this happen on Friday, but I'm glad that I could still complete my journey, and staff were proactive in informing passengers of the situation. If it's possible to provide a service and there is any genuine demand it should run.