Replacement buses, why don't they call at the advertised stops at times shown?

[dannypye9999]

Last nights 23.16 Manchester Piccadilly to Macclesfield was a replacement bus. After calling at Stockport, Cheadle Hulme, Bramhall and Poynton we seemed to go on and skip Adlington and Prestbury. The driver did ask everyone on board if there were any passengers for Adlington or Prestbury but then again what if a person was deaf? They could've missed their stop and ended up getting stranded in Macclesfield. Also if we have to miss stops then what about people wishing to board? Or do we just leave them waiting in the rain for a service that never turns up.

How is this acceptable? Replacement buses should be stopping at all the calling points advertised. It's bad enough the current situation with Northern.

 

[omnicity4659]

Arriva Road Transport Services aren’t the best at timetabling, so this could also be a factor as to why the driver has taken it upon himself to skip stops…

 

[nwales58]

Simple: bus operating precision versus train operating precision.

'At times shown' can be difficult. Try driving from Barmouth to Morfa Mawddach in 5 minutes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Arriva Road Transport Services aren’t the best at timetabling, so this could also be a factor as to why the driver has taken it upon himself to skip stops…

A few weeks back I used one from Lancaster to Ulverston. It left Cark just under 15 minutes (yes, fifteen) early but arrived at Ulverston within a minute or two of booked time (and no, there wasn't any congestion). This really is appalling if it's happening a lot rather than just being a one off screw-up by the timetablers.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Last nights 23.16 Manchester Piccadilly to Macclesfield was a replacement bus. After calling at Stockport, Cheadle Hulme, Bramhall and Poynton we seemed to go on and skip Adlington and Prestbury. The driver did ask everyone on board if there were any passengers for Adlington or Prestbury but then again what if a person was deaf? They could've missed their stop and ended up getting stranded in Macclesfield. Also if we have to miss stops then what about people wishing to board? Or do we just leave them waiting in the rain for a service that never turns up.

How is this acceptable? Replacement buses should be stopping at all the calling points advertised. It's bad enough the current situation with Northern.

It isn’t acceptable on the face of it, but you don’t know what was going on behind the scenes. Possibly those stations being skipped had other cover for passengers departing, such as taxis etc, and your driver had been instructed to work on a ‘set down only’ basis.

Simple: bus operating precision versus train operating precision.

'At times shown' can be difficult. Try driving from Barmouth to Morfa Mawddach in 5 minutes.

For planned bus replacement this would never be timetabled, from memory the MM-Barmouth journey time by bus is about 45-50 minutes.

 

[The Planner]

Simple: bus operating precision versus train operating precision.

'At times shown' can be difficult. Try driving from Barmouth to Morfa Mawddach

For planned bus replacement this would never be timetabled, from memory the MM-Barmouth journey time by bus is about 45-50 minutes.

This. Bus replacement uses its own set of running times stipulated by the TOC. They aren't going to be the same as trains.

 

[jon0844]

Rail Replacement Buses are often a nightmare with drivers not sure of their routes (often asking passengers where to go), using unapproved navigation apps that don't account for the larger size of a coach, or don't book on at all. Drivers of spare buses seem to go out of their way to avoid being called upon to step up.

Worse still, in most cases there's no way for controllers to track the buses to see if they're going the right way, and are keeping to time. But I have heard from someone at Transport UK (Abellio) that there are apparently industry plans to make RRBs trackable. I am not sure how that will be done, or when, or if it will be a requirement (so as to not have many buses not set up) but that would make a HUGE difference. Not only would it allow people to plan for using buses rather than wait in the cold with no idea of whether a bus is coming, but it might just improve the quality of the service provision.

Does anyone know any more about this? For years I've wished buses were made to carry a device to allow them to be tracked, or utilise the onboard ticket machine in some way to offer both tracking AND customer information on the onboard displays/speakers (if fitted). That also makes me wonder if RRBs will be bound to give information of where they are to passengers like ordinary buses eventually will?

 

[father_jack]

I can say from recent information from the FRS (First rail support) side of of rail replacements there is a tracking system imminent. What's being going on forever isn't acceptable. I've known of buses with co-ordinators travelling onboard not doing stops despite the urgings !!!!

 

[dannypye9999]

It isn’t acceptable on the face of it, but you don’t know what was going on behind the scenes. Possibly those stations being skipped had other cover for passengers departing, such as taxis etc, and your driver had been instructed to work on a ‘set down only’ basis.



For planned bus replacement this would never be timetabled, from memory the MM-Barmouth journey time by bus is about 45-50 minutes.

As a regular traveller on this route I can assure you Prestbury and Adlington are not manned or staffed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can say from recent information from the FRS (First rail support) side of of rail replacements there is a tracking system imminent. What's being going on forever isn't acceptable. I've known of buses with co-ordinators travelling onboard not doing stops despite the urgings !!!!

This should certainly prevent wilful early running. It was amazing how my old evening bus route used to routinely run 10 minutes early, a practice which curiously ceased instantly the day GPS tracking was implemented and never happened again.

 

[LWB]

A few weeks back I used one from Lancaster to Ulverston. It left Cark just under 15 minutes (yes, fifteen) early but arrived at Ulverston within a minute or two of booked time (and no, there wasn't any congestion). This really is appalling if it's happening a lot rather than just being a one off screw-up by the timetablers.

Is this a troll? I’m hopeless at spotting trolls. Assuming you are serious in asking this question, have you looked at a map? The bus has to travel all the way up the rural Cartmel peninsular to gain the A590 and then travel all the way down the Furness peninsular to reach Ulverston. The train on the other hand has the benefit of a viaduct and consequently a much shorter route, virtually arriving in Ulverston at Plumpton.

 

[30907]

Is this a troll? I’m hopeless at spotting trolls. Assuming you are serious in asking this question, have you looked at a map? The bus has to travel all the way up the rural Cartmel peninsular to gain the A590 and then travel all the way down the Furness peninsular to reach Ulverston. The train on the other hand has the benefit of a viaduct and consequently a much shorter route, virtually arriving in Ulverston at Plumpton.

I presume the poster was referring to the RRB timetable.

 

[vicbury]

Last time I was supposed to catch a rail replacement bus from Gloucester, it never turned up. After much toing and froing with CrossCountry via Messenger, I was eventually sent a taxi.

The station staff advised that sometimes rail replacement buses call at the front of the station and sometimes they call at the rear. What good is that!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I presume the poster was referring to the RRB timetable.

Correct. The timetable was wildly incorrect, giving far too long a set of timings for the first few stations on the route, and far too short a timing for Cark to Ulverston (had it not left Cark so early, it would have been 15 minutes late at Ulverston). Wildly incompetent and almost certainly resulted in people missing it (someone did run up at the last minute and flag it down at Grange, which it left about 5 minutes early).

 

[nwales58]

I can say from recent information from the FRS (First rail support) side of of rail replacements there is a tracking system imminent.

Not beforetime. This is needed, and needs to be publicly visible, for all RRB.

In Wales even the tiny operators buses and minibuses feed real time positions, visible on bustimes.org (because the government made it a condition of grants and supplies the ticket machines where necessary).

So we have no idea of where the rail replacement bus is, early or late or gone the wrong way. But we almost always can see whether the smallest scheduled service is, for instance giving confidence knowing whether a connection is waiting or not.

 

[PeterC]

I can say from recent information from the FRS (First rail support) side of of rail replacements there is a tracking system imminent. What's being going on forever isn't acceptable. I've known of buses with co-ordinators travelling onboard not doing stops despite the urgings !!!!

I have seen a bus reporting as a RRB on bustimes.org

 

[Statto]

Rail Replacement Buses are often a nightmare with drivers not sure of their routes (often asking passengers where to go), using unapproved navigation apps that don't account for the larger size of a coach, or don't book on at all. Drivers of spare buses seem to go out of their way to avoid being called upon to step up.

Worse still, in most cases there's no way for controllers to track the buses to see if they're going the right way, and are keeping to time. But I have heard from someone at Transport UK (Abellio) that there are apparently industry plans to make RRBs trackable. I am not sure how that will be done, or when, or if it will be a requirement (so as to not have many buses not set up) but that would make a HUGE difference. Not only would it allow people to plan for using buses rather than wait in the cold with no idea of whether a bus is coming, but it might just improve the quality of the service provision.

Does anyone know any more about this? For years I've wished buses were made to carry a device to allow them to be tracked, or utilise the onboard ticket machine in some way to offer both tracking AND customer information on the onboard displays/speakers (if fitted). That also makes me wonder if RRBs will be bound to give information of where they are to passengers like ordinary buses eventually will?

If their are plans to make RRBs trackable, maybe using the ticketer machines (like they do on standard buses] to track the RRBs could be doable?

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

If their are plans to make RRBs trackable, maybe using the ticketer machines (like they do on standard buses] to track the RRBs could be doable?

Do RRBs have ticket machines? They aren’t selling tickets, so they don’t really need them under normal circumstances, and coaches never used to be fitted for them in any case?

 

[700007]

Tracking is already in place and has been for the last year on Southeastern which is the pilot customer for this system. You can actually see when replacement buses run on Customer Information Screens what time the bus is coming (whether early or late). The system is still a huge work in progress, mind.

I have attached an image of a departure screen at Denmark Hill which shows a list of all train and bus departures. In this list you can see the 2357 Southeastern replacement departure running over 20 minutes late, in real time, to illustrate the live tracking. All other buses are running on time.

 

[thenorthern]

As others have said in many rural areas the roads don't follow the path of the railways meaning they can take longer.

Also many stations are not suited to have rail replacement coaches as they are accessed via narrow roads. Prestbury and Adlington aren't too bad however other stations sometimes have to have a shuttle minibus to connect with the main replacement bus at another station.

 

[jon0844]

Tracking is already in place and has been for the last year on Southeastern which is the pilot customer for this system. You can actually see when replacement buses run on Customer Information Screens what time the bus is coming (whether early or late). The system is still a huge work in progress, mind.

I have attached an image of a departure screen at Denmark Hill which shows a list of all train and bus departures. In this list you can see the 2357 Southeastern replacement departure running over 20 minutes late, in real time, to illustrate the live tracking. All other buses are running on time.

It's sad that I'm posting that I think this is awesome when we've had the technology to do this for decades. But better late than never and I hope this successfully rolls out everywhere.

The only downside is that a lot of people today probably don't travel when there are rail replacement buses if they can, because it's often an unpleasant experience (and I mean more about reliability than passenger comfort as some coaches are very luxurious). This might inadvertently see bus patronage increase and then cause other issues!

 

[73001]

If their are plans to make RRBs trackable, maybe using the ticketer machines (like they do on standard buses] to track the RRBs could be doable?

I work for arriva and we do the Merseyrail RRBs. Generally drivers will log in to the Ticketer and it shows up as RR1 on Bustimes.org when we're running; if it's an emergency replacement then there's no timetable, we just try to shift as many people as possible. If it's planned then generally we leave 15 mins apart, coinciding with any trains that are running anywhere. On busy lines we'd do express buses as well as stoppers so as to make the journey as short as possible for end to end passengers. We'd have a timetable too so that we don't end up early along the way. We know what we do isn't always perfect but it's usually not bad. At least we have regular staff who know the routes and know the area.

 

[Kite159]

And it's annoying for passengers when the planned replacement buses run late (ie get caught up in traffic) with the train it was meant to connect into departing on time leaving those passengers with potentially an hour to hang around for the next train.

Add on sometimes the uncertainty if you will be able to get onto the bus if it's busy. (I seem to recall a thread about the chaos at Crewe with replacement buses for Runcorn + Liverpool being massively long at times)

 

[mikeg]

Last nights 23.16 Manchester Piccadilly to Macclesfield was a replacement bus. After calling at Stockport, Cheadle Hulme, Bramhall and Poynton we seemed to go on and skip Adlington and Prestbury. The driver did ask everyone on board if there were any passengers for Adlington or Prestbury but then again what if a person was deaf? They could've missed their stop and ended up getting stranded in Macclesfield. Also if we have to miss stops then what about people wishing to board? Or do we just leave them waiting in the rain for a service that never turns up.

How is this acceptable? Replacement buses should be stopping at all the calling points advertised. It's bad enough the current situation with Northern.

I've nearly been stranded by such behaviour. Often when boarding an RRB at York going to Thirsk, I was asked if there's anyone for Thirsk. On other occasions I've been at Thirsk wanting to get an RRB to Northallerton, lo and behold it doesn't turn up. Only thanks to the guy on the 'info' button on the help point did TPE arrange a taxi. Very poor logic, there's nobody for Thirsk so we don't need to stop there...

 

[Andyh82]

Do RRBs have ticket machines? They aren’t selling tickets, so they don’t really need them under normal circumstances, and coaches never used to be fitted for them in any case?

They could use hand held Ticketer machines that the driver would log the trip into, but it doesn’t need to be mounted inside the vehicle.

The question would be, would the transport support partner provide the machines or would the contracted operator be expected to have them, which would put even more restrictions on what is required from a contractor

 

[47296lastduff]

I remember arriving at Chester late one Sat evening, where it was RRBs forward for North Wales. Some were fast to main destinations, while I boarded the one for intermediate stops as far as Llandudno Junction. At Prestatyn , the driver dropped me at the main road rather than turning in to the station, about 15 mins early on RRB schedule, then sped off. There were no staff at the station that late, and if anybody had been waiting to board they would have had no luck.

 

[Simon75]

I intended to travelled from Peartree (in Derby) to Stoke-on-Trent one Saturday daytime
However station was closed, so unable to buy ticket or travel. I used the help point (East Midlands trains,) and was told a rail replacement bus was due.
It never turned up, rang them back and they sent me a taxi , so got a free ride back home

 

[800301]

I used to work for a company that did a lot of replacement work and there are quite a few late night and early morning journeys from Gravesend to Gillingham and return that are seriously overtimed and it makes it painful to drive as a rail replacement bus waiting in some cases up to 10mins at Stations with passengers getting more and more frustrated at each stop, I’ve had people get off at Strood and jump in a taxi because they were fed up of waiting but what do I do, go and leave people behind or wait and drive them insane

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

They could use hand held Ticketer machines that the driver would log the trip into, but it doesn’t need to be mounted inside the vehicle.

The question would be, would the transport support partner provide the machines or would the contracted operator be expected to have them, which would put even more restrictions on what is required from a contractor

Of course, I'd not thought about those, despite my son's school coach having just such a thing, and even an app so we can see where the coach is! I'm getting old, my last ticket machines were wayfarers...

I think this would be one of those things nobody wants to buy - operators won't if they're only used for RRB work, and TOCs won't if they're only used for RRB work...

 

[185]

The replacement bus timetables need tightening up. 2 hours 50 is not an adequate replacement for a 45 minute journey with stops.

Long term, the least used stations need a permanent stop with a BR sign on, installing on the main road, some distance away to avoid the bus losing time.