Reported to Prosecution

[jcfm]

Hoping for some help/advice tonight there was a group of rail staff checking all tickets for which I was stopped and was unable to pay fine and told I was being cautioned for fraud, I travel into London and sometimes buy a ticket for only part of the journey, this is more to avoid cost at time or I buy them in seperate journeys to make it cheaper! I am now so worried I am
Going to be taken to court and could just like to rectify this with a settlement and move on and purchase a season ticket so this doesn’t Happen. I probably won’t get the letter for a couple of weeks but I’m worried sick until then any advice?

Also to add, I have occasionally bought tickets for my sister with a rail card and forgotten to take it off when buying my own, I am
In such a mess with it all and all because it’s so expensive to get to work I want to put it right but I’m just so worried about going to court I just want a settlement and put things right

 

[telstarbox]

Which station was this please?

 

[jcfm]

Which station was this please?

Beford

 

[Haywain]

any advice?

Try not to worry too much. You will be dealing with Thameslink (GTR) who are the most reasonable company in these matters. They may look into your ticket buying history but if you cooperate they will almost certainly give you an opportunity to settle without court action.

 

[AlterEgo]

Beford

Is that where you’ve started the journey or where you’ve been buying tickets from? What’s the exact journey? And which railcard discount did you claim? Do you have any railcard at all?

 

[jcfm]

Try not to worry too much. You will be dealing with Thameslink (GTR) who are the most reasonable company in these matters. They may look into your ticket buying history but if you cooperate they will almost certainly give you an opportunity to settle without court action.

Thank you that’s really helpful, how long do you think it will be until I hear? If they see my ticket history they will see I do the same journey so buy half the tickets then tap in for the journeys inbetween ( but they won’t see this on my history as it’s on oyster or bank)

 

[John R]

If you tell us where you were travelling from and to and how many times you may have done this (you can check on whichever online booking app you use), we can estimate the rough amount you may have to find quickly if you are offered an out of court settlement.

 

[jcfm]

Is that where you’ve started the journey or where you’ve been buying tickets from? What’s the exact journey? And which railcard discount did you claim? Do you have any railcard at all?

I do bedford to flitwick and then Hayden’s road to wimbeldon in between that I either sometimes get a lift or sometimes tap or buy a ticket at station as sometimes meet a friend there? My history on Trainline will be bedford- flitwick and haydons road to wimbeldon! I know it’s wrong and I want to put it right do you think they will let me do an out of court settlement?

 

[AlterEgo]

I do bedford to flitwick and then Hayden’s road to wimbeldon in between that I either sometimes get a lift

You get a lift between Flitwick and Haydons Road?

Do you have any railcard at all? Which railcard discount have you been claiming? GTR are one of the more amenable companies to deal with but you will need to be absolutely honest with them.

 

[jcfm]

If you tell us where you were travelling from and to and how many times you may have done this (you can check on whichever online booking app you use), we can estimate the rough amount you may have to find quickly if you are offered an out of court settlement.

I travel from Bedford - wimbeldon and I always have tickets between Bedford and flitwick and Hayden’s road and wimbeldon in between that I either get a ticket once I have met my friend or tap in as it’s cheaper! I have done it on and off maybe 8 times over a year or so ?

You get a lift between Flitwick and Haydons Road?

Do you have any railcard at all? Which railcard discount have you been claiming? GTR are one of the more amenable companies to deal with but you will need to be absolutely honest with them.

Yes I want to be honest I really do i have only done it ( not an excuse) sometimes so expensive to get in and I try do lots of different tickets and tapping to make it cheaper! The rail card is 25-30

 

[John R]

The potential maximum you could be asked to pay is £38.50 x 2 for every day GTR identify you have done this, together with an admin fee of around £150. (38.50 is the Anytime Single dare).

Having said that, GTR may make allowance for the tickets bought, although this is less likely if they were bought with a railcard discount that was not appropriate. But the above calculation should give you a worst possible case of what you will be asked to pay. You’ll need to pay it within around 14 days to avoid prosecution, so worth thinking if you have that sort of amount to hand.

 

[Haywain]

Yes I want to be honest I really do

If that's the case don't try this nonsense:

I do bedford to flitwick and then Hayden’s road to wimbeldon in between that I either sometimes get a lift or sometimes tap or buy a ticket at station

because no-one will believe it.

 

[jcfm]

Is that where you’ve started the journey or where you’ve been buying tickets from? What’s the exact journey? And which railcard discount did you claim? Do you have any

The potential maximum you could be asked to pay is £38.50 x 2 for every day GTR identify you have done this, together with an admin fee of around £150. (38.50 is the Anytime Single dare).

Having said that, GTR may make allowance for the tickets bought, although this is less likely if they were bought with a railcard discount that was not appropriate. But the above calculation should give you a worst possible case of what you will be asked to pay. You’ll need to pay it within around 14 days to avoid prosecution, so worth thinking if you have that sort of amount to hand.

Thank you so much for this help do you think they are likely to give me a settlement if I cooperate! Also if it Happened tonight when will I likely receive the first letter and what is the process following this do you know?

If that's the case don't try this nonsense:

because no-one will believe it.

Ok yes that makes sense thank you

 

[6Gman]

Thank you so much for this help do you think they are likely to give me a settlement if I cooperate! Also if it Happened tonight when will I likely receive the first letter and what is the process following this do you know?


Ok yes that makes sense thank you

You will have to wait for the letter - impossible to say how soon but think in terms of weeks rather than days.

You then need to write back (come back here when you get the letter and people will be able to give you suitable advice) and then await their further response.

GTR seem to be one of the companies more willing to offer a settlement as already outlined here but you have to realise that your pattern of behaviour shows a pretty serious attempt to avoid the proper payment and they would be well within their rights to prosecute.

 

[jcfm]

You will have to wait for the letter - impossible to say how soon but think in terms of weeks rather than days.

You then need to write back (come back here when you get the letter and people will be able to give you suitable advice) and then await their further response.

GTR seem to be one of the companies more willing to offer a settlement as already outlined here but you have to realise that your pattern of behaviour shows a pretty serious attempt to avoid the proper payment and they would be well within their rights to prosecute.

Yes and this is what I am so fearful of I just hope I can assure that I will put things right so this will never happen again and learn from my terrible mistakes! I am so ashamed of this, I have a job and children and don’t want to risk anything that may affect this! Weeks will seem such a long time, I am struggling to stop thinking or worrying about it

I haven’t slept worrying an about this all night do you think it’s worth calling today to see if I can kick off the process to hopefully agree an out of court settlement? I don’t know how to stop worrying about how serious this is if I end up with a conviction I will loose my job and I am the main provider for my children ?

 

[notmyrealname]

The general view here is that ringing them early on doesn't work. This is because they probably won't have set up a file for your case yet, so don't have any paperwork to refer to. The normal advice is to wait for the letter.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Travelling with short tickets is a criminal offence and the train company are entitled to prosecute you if they want to. Thankfully for you you're dealing with Govia Thameslink Railway who are generally willing to offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with their investigation and who haven't come to their attention before.

GTR will write to you in the next few weeks, 3-4 weeks tends to be typical - sometimes faster sometimes a bit longer. When the letter arrives come back here and post a copy of it in this thread (with any personal details redacted) along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you. I suggest you mention the followinbg points in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If you are offered a settlement expect to have to pay the cost of the fare avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase. In addition you will have to pay an admin fee, typically £150. You will also need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered, payment in installments is not allowed.

As long as you gave the officers who stopped you your correct contact details, there is nothing to be gained by contacting GTR before their letter arrives. The Prosecutions Department won't speak to you and this isn't something that customer services will be able to help with. GTR deal with thousands of cases like this and you will have to wait for your case to come to the top of the pile.

 

[jcfm]

Welcome to the forum!

Travelling with short tickets is a criminal offence and the train company are entitled to prosecute you if they want to. Thankfully for you you're dealing with Govia Thameslink Railway who are generally willing to offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with their investigation and who haven't come to their attention before.

GTR will write to you in the next few weeks, 3-4 weeks tends to be typical - sometimes faster sometimes a bit longer. When the letter arrives come back here and post a copy of it in this thread (with any personal details redacted) along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you. I suggest you mention the followinbg points in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If you are offered a settlement expect to have to pay the cost of the fare avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase. In addition you will have to pay an admin fee, typically £150. You will also need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered, payment in installments is not allowed.

As long as you gave the officers who stopped you your correct contact details, there is nothing to be gained by contacting GTR before their letter arrives. The Prosecutions Department won't speak to you and this isn't something that customer services will be able to help with. GTR deal with thousands of cases like this and you will have to wait for your case to come to the top of the pile.

Thanks for your reply, I have had one fine historically has it been known if this has happened to still do an out of court settlement this is really what I want if possible and I’m willing to settle asap with no questions just want to learn from this and never do it again, it was a silly thing I was doing to save cost I have now contacted work to arrange for a season ticket so I can pay monthly and make it feasible to manage money better

 

[Hadders]

Can you define what you mean by a fine. Were you given a Penalty Fare? Or was it like this time where details were taken and you paid a settlement? Or were you taken to court and ordered to pay a fine as a punishment? When did this happen and was it with GTR.

Clearly being a repeat offender doesn't help, if you have done this before and not learned yor lesson then arguably you should be prosecuted. That said GTR will almost certainly settle out of court if you co-operate.

 

[jcfm]

Can you define what you mean by a fine. Were you given a Penalty Fare? Or was it like this time where details were taken and you paid a settlement? Or were you taken to court and ordered to pay a fine as a punishment? When did this happen and was it with GTR.

Clearly being a repeat offender doesn't help, if you have done this before and not learned yor lesson then arguably you should be prosecuted. That said GTR will almost certainly settle out of court if you co-operate.

No it was just a fine I paid there and then, ok this is good to hear thank you for response! I understand they have a right to prosecute but hope they will see I won’t ever do it again and let me settle. I will post my letter in here when it arrives and hopefully get some advice there is no need to make an excuse I just need to own it apologise and explain what I have put in place to show it will never happen again

 

[6Gman]

No it was just a fine I paid there and then, ok this is good to hear thank you for response! I understand they have a right to prosecute but hope they will see I won’t ever do it again and let me settle. I will post my letter in here when it arrives and hopefully get some advice there is no need to make an excuse I just need to own it apologise and explain what I have put in place to show it will never happen again

For the moment all you can do is wait for further contact.

@Hadders has set out above how it works and what you will need to do.

I recommend following his advice carefully as he is one of the wisest and most knowledgeable people on here.

Post your letter on here when it arrives (with personal details obscured) and you will get further expert advice.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you so much for this help do you think they are likely to give me a settlement if I cooperate!

That’s likely, but you will have to actually tell them the truth and not imply ridiculous things like you get a lift for 95% of your rail journey.

 

[jcfm]

For the moment all you can do is wait for further contact.

@Hadders has set out above how it works and what you will need to do.

I recommend following his advice carefully as he is one of the wisest and most knowledgeable people on here.

Post your letter on here when it arrives (with personal details obscured) and you will get further expert advice.

Yes will do - I have read it sometimes can take 6-8 weeks to receive a letter as it’s a busy time? Do you how long inbetween me replying it will take to receive an outcome ?

Hi, back to some more questions as I have been reading some other threads, and I can see alot of people recommending using solicitors before a letter has even been received, would you advise this or would you say I should wait to see what the letter says?

 

[John R]

Hi, back to some more questions as I have been reading some other threads, and I can see alot of people recommending using solicitors before a letter has even been received, would you advise this or would you say I should wait to see what the letter says?

Using one of the specialist solicitors does seem to enable you to "jump the queue" by not having to wait for the initial letter. However, whether that is worth the few hundred pounds it will cost you is only something you can decide. It's not obvious to me that in most cases the outcome of the case is any different, as most cases we see (TfL excluded) result in an offer of settlement.

 

[some bloke]

I don’t know how to stop worrying about how serious this is if I end up with a conviction I will loose my job...?

I haven’t slept or eaten since it happened sick with worry as if it goes to court I will lose my job

Hello jcfm,

I'm sorry this is so stressful. Have you confirmed beyond doubt that you would lose your job?

Is it certain that getting a conviction is what would make all the difference, or does your employment contract or professional regulator's website say you would have to declare when charged with a criminal offence, or something like "matters which may call fitness to practise into question"?

If you belong to a trade union, they may offer some free legal advice, and/or advice on what risks to your career there may or may not be, what the procedure would be for the employer and/or regulator to investigate, and what you can do.

Unlock and Nacro are two organisations which may have useful information and advice - they both have helplines. They may prefer people to try to find relevant information on the website before calling or writing.

Information and Advice - Unlock

unlock.org.uk

Advice for individuals

We offer information and advice for individuals on criminal record related issues, from disclosure to DBS checks. Find out more here.

www.nacro.org.uk

 

[jcfm]

Hi, today I have received my letter please could anyone else respond I really don’t want this to go to court and would like to settle if possible any tips and advice please? I am so worried.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi, today I have received my letter please could anyone else respond I really don’t want this to go to court and would like to settle if possible any tips and advice please? I am so worried.

Have a look at what @Hadders said in post #17 above. Write something up which covers those points, and if you would like us to take a look at it before you send it there are people here who will make useful suggestions.

(EDIT) Looking again at the letter, I see it wants to discuss multiple times when the railway think you dodged your fare. So if this is true, you need to co-operate with that. You will know if it is true and if so how often you didn’t pay the right amount (credit card statements are good for this: if not that you probably have a feel for whether you did this every time you travelled or at the end of the month when money was short, or whatever) so work out your most accurate estimate and be prepared to write something like ‘I estimate that I did not pay the right fare on x occasions in the last y years’.

From what we have seen here, there’s a (good?) chance that the railway will then offer you an out of court settlement figure.

An alternative approach would be to try to tough it out, and say that if you don’t say anything then the railway will have insufficient evidence to take you to court. But to my mind there’s a big downside if you are wrong and you are convicted, and I note from earlier posts that you rea don’t want to explain a conviction to your employer.

 

[jcfm]

Have a look at what @Hadders said in post #17 above. Write something up which covers those points, and if you would like us to take a look at it before you send it there are people here who will make useful suggestions.

(EDIT) Looking again at the letter, I see it wants to discuss multiple times when the railway think you dodged your fare. So if this is true, you need to co-operate with that. You will know if it is true and if so how often you didn’t pay the right amount (credit card statements are good for this: if not that you probably have a feel for whether you did this every time you travelled or at the end of the month when money was short, or whatever) so work out your most accurate estimate and be prepared to write something like ‘I estimate that I did not pay the right fare on x occasions in the last y years’.

From what we have seen here, there’s a (good?) chance that the railway will then offer you an out of court settlement figure.

An alternative approach would be to try to tough it out, and say that if you don’t say anything then the railway will have insufficient evidence to take you to court. But to my mind there’s a big downside if you are wrong and you are convicted, and I note from earlier posts that you rea don’t want to explain a conviction to your employer.

 

[AlterEgo]

Please put the text of the letter/email into the thread so people can edit it. You need to make this a bit longer and more sincere sounding, and address what has been accused of you, and close with a call to action. Loose means "not tight", you mean "lose". Don't use exclamation marks in formal correspondence.

 

[jcfm]

This is the starter for my response I really do appreciate your help .

I would like to apologise for my disgraceful behaviour and I am truly ashamed. I understand how this impacts GTR and I want to assure you this will never happen again! I am the process of getting season ticket which will ensure this will never happen again and will always have the correct ticket. I would really like to agree on an out of court settlement, I am the main provider for my children and going to court would mean I would lose my job. I have been stupid and I will take full responsibility for that and never let anything like this happen again.