request for help planning a trip to germany

[generalvegitable]

Hi All, in January me and a few friends will be doing a trip to Germany to explore some of the rail network and some of the big cities.

we will be travelling to Germany either by eurostar and ICE (or flying if there are no cheap tickets left when I book), and travelling within Germany on a 4 day pass (6 if we fly), so ticketing isn't a problem, but there is one major stumbling block, I don't know where we should visit, or where the most scenic routes are, or much about timetabling for that matter.

at the moment the places we want to visit are Düsseldorf (specifically the Japantown there, some of my friends are massive anime geeks and want to visit there), Munich (I want to visit at least one of the beer halls) and the DB museum at Nuremberg, but that basically leaves the rest of the time with not much to do.

What I am asking is, would anyone be able to suggest anywhere to visit or good lines to travel on, ideally we would want a good mix of trains, and good scenery and interesting things to do (that don't cost too much, none of us are particularly wealthy). I know that in the time we will barely scratch the surface (and its probably not the best time of year to do it) but I would appreciate any advice that I can get, so that I can plan an interesting and varied itinerary (although part of the reason for travelling is to bash ICEs so the more time spent on them the better ).

Thanks in advance.

 

[30907]

Where do I begin?

Some immediate thoughts are:

For scenery, ignore lines north of Koeln - Hannover - Dresden.
Top of my list, if the weather is at all wintry, would be a trip up the Brocken (expensive but worth it), or the weekend steam hauled Rodelblitz in the Thüringen Forest (not sure when it starts running). Alternatively, the Zittau narrow gauge is relatively inexpensive, but a long way East.
The Rhine valley Koblenz-Bingen is a must, and there is a chance of a vintage Class 103 (the new diagrams aren't published yet though). Plenty of scenic routes south of Munich.

ICE on the north south route Hannover - Nuremberg.
Checking out the Alex hauled services from Munich would be worth it, or the class 218s round Muehldorf or (?) Ulm-Friedrichshafen (too late for the Bad Harzburg ones).

Bearing in mind the lack of daylight, you might want to base yourselves in bigger cities - Berlin and Dresden as well as the ones you've listed.

There might be bargain offers on the remaining CNL sleepers...

 

[Searle]

The "slow" line from Koln to Frankfurt, along the Rhine is a really nice and scenic journey. You can also make it a round trip by going back on the fast high speed line.

I'd also suggest Berlin, it's an extremely impressive city to look at, even if you don't spend any money. It's also far east enough to have a lengthy and enjoyable journey (and not too long either, due to the speed of ICE.)

 

[30907]

The "slow" line from Koln to Frankfurt, along the Rhine is a really nice and scenic journey. You can also make it a round trip by going back on the fast high speed line.

I'd also suggest Berlin, it's an extremely impressive city to look at, even if you don't spend any money. It's also far east enough to have a lengthy and enjoyable journey (and not too long either, due to the speed of ICE.)

Koeln - Rhine Valley - Frankfurt - ICE - Berlin would make a good day's trip.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Berlin has a huge amount to see - including railway matters - apart from the Technical Museum , (good railway material) there is a lot to see just by riding around the S and U Bahn. A beer fuelled city. Affordable too.

 

[generalvegitable]

Thanks for the advice so far, I've put together a rough draft for the trip:

Day 1 - monday
travel to Düsseldorf (either by Eurostar/ICE or fly)
Overnight in Düsseldorf

Day 2 - Tuesday
EC 7 Düsseldorf HBF 08:27 -> Mainz HBF 10:38
IC 2159 Mainz HBF 10:43 -> Leipzig HBF 14:46
ICE 1608 Leipzig HBF 14:53 -> Berlin HBF 16:07
Overnight in Berlin

Day 3 - Wednesday
Explore Berlin S bahn/U bahn and visit technical museum
ICE 844 berlin HBF 17:46 -> Hannover HBF 19:28
Overnight in Hannover

Day 4 - Thursday
ICE 91 Hannover HBF 09:26 -> Nuremburg HBF 12:27
Visit DB museum
IC 2301 Nuremburg HBF 18:57 -> Munich HBF 20:43
Overnight in Munich

Day 5 - Friday
EC390 Munich HBF 09:46 -> Frankfurt HBF 13:40
IC 2022 Frankfurt KBF 15:44 -> Koln HBF 18:05
Overnight in Koln

Day 6
Return home (either by ICE/Eurostar or fly)

any feedback on the draft plan would be much appreciated, if I've missed anything off or there are more interesting routes I could take then please let me know.

 

[306024]

Looks interesting but good luck on Tuesday! A 5 minute connection at Mainz followed by a 7 minute connection at Leipzig is brave in my book. Leipzig is a huge station. Shame you haven't time for a visit to Colditz while in the Leipzig area, save that for another time.

German timekeeping is not what it was, make sure you have a plan B, (and C). At least you should get to Berlin for your hotel, but possibly later than you hoped.

Wuppertal is near Düsseldorf if you want to see the Schwebebahn.

Anyway have a great trip, you'll want to go back for more.

 

[generalvegitable]

Looks interesting but good luck on Tuesday! A 5 minute connection at Mainz followed by a 7 minute connection at Leipzig is brave in my book.

the DB Journey planner gave me that itinerary, I just plonked in Düsseldorf to Berlin via Koblenz and Frankfurt and chose the most varied itinerary, the connections are cross platform anyway so we *should* be OK. I will re-evaluate that day though

Shame you haven't time for a visit to Colditz while in the Leipzig area, save that for another time.

oh #@%$ I forgot about Colditz! next time I'll make sure to plan a stay in the famous castle (now a hotel).

Wuppertal is near Düsseldorf if you want to see the Schwebebahn.

I did think about visiting the schwebebahn, but decided against it for time reasons. if we end up flying I'll make sure to plan in a visit.

Anyway have a great trip, you'll want to go back for more.

Thanks, I've already done a couple of trips to the continent, but this will be the first one that I've actually done the planning for, I've already caught the bug!

 

[Zamracene749]

Not sure why you chose overnight in Hannover on day 3, it's not the most ahem exciting or visually thrilling city! I'd be tempted to head closer to Nuremburg on that day, perhaps overnight somewhere historic with superb, cheap beers like Bamberg?

 

[30907]

Not sure why you chose overnight in Hannover on day 3, it's not the most ahem exciting or visually thrilling city! I'd be tempted to head closer to Nuremburg on that day, perhaps overnight somewhere historic with superb, cheap beers like Bamberg?

Or stay a second night in Berlin and go Berlin - Kassel - Nuremberg in the morning. Germany works on early starts, especially in the East!

If you opt for the Rhine Valley twice, then use IC118/119, in each case about 30min behind the trains you've chosen, which are the booked 103 turns and OBB stock.
BTW EC7 is SBB stock IIRC.

I would also prefer an ICE-T on Frankfurt - Erfurt - Leipzig, especially if you can get lounge seats at the end, and give yourself a few mins to look at the station there!

Another thought would be to use the 125mph RE train Nuremberg - Munich instead of the IC.

 

[Puffing Devil]

The Augustinerkeller is my favourite beer garden in Munich and it's just a hop, skip and a jump from the Munich Hauptbanhof! Shame you're there in January and it will be a little chilly - however the inside cellar downstairs should be open and it's very impressive.

 

[gordonthemoron]

The Technical Museum in Berlin is far better than the DB museum in Nuremberg, although there are many other reasons to visit Nuremberg, e.g. Zeppelinfeld and surroundings.

favourite beer hall in Munich would be the one at Augustinerbrau on Landsbergerstrasse. However the Grossegastatte (augustinerbrau) in the pedestrian zone in the city centre is also good as are Hofbrauhaus and Weissesbrauhaus (Schneider) on Tal. Do NOT go to the Loewenbraukeller which is not very good and the service is poor. There is a reasonable Paulaner one or two but they're in the sticks and difficult to find. Also do not go to the Hacker Pschorr one at Schwantalerhohe which is also rubbish

 

[Aictos]

Berlin has a huge amount to see - including railway matters - apart from the Technical Museum , (good railway material) there is a lot to see just by riding around the S and U Bahn. A beer fuelled city. Affordable too.

Indeed, very affordable compared to the likes of London plus they have the trams in the former East Berlin too - all in all, it's very easy to get around besides if I can get around and my German is very poor I'm sure you be fine

 

[Greenback]

I agree Berlin is affordable. Whenever I've checked out accommodation there the prices seem more than reasonable compared to places like Paris and Amsterdam, as well as London.

 

[generalvegitable]

Thanks for the advice so far, I've modified the itinerary a bit to take into account some of the suggestions (primarily giving better connection times and avoiding duplication of routes).

Day 1 -Monday
Travel to Düsseldorf.
Overnight in Düsseldorf

Day 2 - Tuesday
IC2310 Düsseldorf HBF 09:33 -> Hamburg HBF 13:13
ICE 1615 Hamburg HBF 14:06 -> Berlin HBF 15:44
Explore Berlin
Overnight in Berlin

Day 3 - Wednesday
Explore Berlin, visit technical museum
Overnight in Berlin

Day 4 - Thursday
ICE 1342 Berlin HBF 08:47-> Hanover HBF 10:28
ICE 787 Hanover HBF 11:26 -> Nuremberg HBF 14:24
Visit DB museum
IC 2301 Nuremberg HBF 18:57 -> Munich HBF 20:43
Overnight in Munich

Day 5 – Friday
EC218 Munich HBF 11:46 -> Ulm HBF 13:02
IC 118 Ulm HBF 13:56 -> Koln HBF 18:42
Overnight in Koln

Day 6 sat
Return home

again, like I said last time, any further feedback is appreciated

 

[30907]

FYI IC118 is booked Br103 from Stuttgart only, as it reverses there.

In scenic terms, Düsseldorf-Hamburg-Berlin is pretty unexciting.
Düsseldorf-Kassel-Berlin or Düsseldorf-Erfurt-Leipzig-Berlin would be more interesting.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry, the info about class 103 diagrams will no longer apply.

The new ones are here, and there is nothing North of Mainz now - though some other interesting routes, if you choose your day carefully.

http://www.moebahn.de/t17171f122-Umlaufplan-Fahrplan-Baureihe-Muenchen-Frankfurt.html

"Tag 1" literally means Day 1 - it's a 2 - week diagram for 2 locos out of the 3 currently authorised in service.

I'd check again though before finalising plans

 

[generalvegitable]

thanks for that (I've rerouted the tuesday to go via Kassel instead), I should also mention that due to a rather major issue, (I.E some of my friends not having passports and not telling me :roll, I have to postpone this until at least april/may time, I assume that the timetables will still be vaguely similar but I'll re work the plan at a later date to properly account for any changes.

 

[30907]

Timetables won't change again till June, and the bonus is that you'll have much more daylight.

 

[fandroid]

There's always places and routes you have to miss out. I quite enjoy riding on RE (Regional Express) upper decks. Great for site-seeing. It's a shame you'll have to miss Leipzig, as it's a grand and massive station. However, Hamburg Hbf is quite impressive too, although you won't have time to explore the U-Bahn and the river frontage there. Nuremberg is like no other German city. A weird mixture of old imperial grandness and modern German consumerism. I never have time to visit the DB museum, so have fun. You could try a trip on the driverless U-bahn lines U2 and U3. No platform-edge doors and no staff on the trains nor in the stations!

Dresden is also a great place worth a visit - another trip perhaps. The old DDR has a totally different atmosphere to the old West Germany. It's worth a visit to see a less crowded, older-feeling part of the country (as well as all the quirky little local lines that survive).

One really good feature of German IC and ICE trains is that they give out detailed connections at every stop on the printed itineraries left by each seat. Also, the train manager announces all the connections with platform numbers just before arrival at each stop (usually in English as well as German.) Don't rush to the doors as soon as your stop is announced (like the Germans do!) as it's normally a good wait before the train actually arrives. (Ignore that advice if your connection is tight.)

Be aware that rules on local transport ticket validity are subtly different in every city. Day tickets are normally a good bet. Some systems require tickets to be punched, others not. Look out for Kurzstrecke tickets. Valid in many places for short tram and bus rides. 40 Euro standard fine for all transgressions!

 

[darloscott]

There's always places and routes you have to miss out. I quite enjoy riding on RE (Regional Express) upper decks. Great for site-seeing. It's a shame you'll have to miss Leipzig, as it's a grand and massive station. However, Hamburg Hbf is quite impressive too, although you won't have time to explore the U-Bahn and the river frontage there. Nuremberg is like no other German city. A weird mixture of old imperial grandness and modern German consumerism. I never have time to visit the DB museum, so have fun. You could try a trip on the driverless U-bahn lines U2 and U3. No platform-edge doors and no staff on the trains nor in the stations!

Dresden is also a great place worth a visit - another trip perhaps. The old DDR has a totally different atmosphere to the old West Germany. It's worth a visit to see a less crowded, older-feeling part of the country (as well as all the quirky little local lines that survive).

One really good feature of German IC and ICE trains is that they give out detailed connections at every stop on the printed itineraries left by each seat. Also, the train manager announces all the connections with platform numbers just before arrival at each stop (usually in English as well as German.) Don't rush to the doors as soon as your stop is announced (like the Germans do!) as it's normally a good wait before the train actually arrives. (Ignore that advice if your connection is tight.)

Be aware that rules on local transport ticket validity are subtly different in every city. Day tickets are normally a good bet. Some systems require tickets to be punched, others not. Look out for Kurzstrecke tickets. Valid in many places for short tram and bus rides. 40 Euro standard fine for all transgressions!

That's if you ever get your ticket checked...
Of course I wouldn't risk it but just throwing it out there. I've just returned today from a 5 day trip around Germany, and could count on one hand the amount of times my rail pass was checked. I think there is a lot to be said for basing yourself in one place for a number of nights so that you can enjoy your days out without having to carry luggage around every day.

I'd also backup suggestions of a trip down the Rhine valley, I did that yesterday from Köln to Frankfurt, stopping an hour in Koblenz and then making a 2 min connection in Mainz thanks to the train manager informing everyone before we got there! I went back high speed on the ICE to finish my trip.

I have to say I was impressed by the German rail system, I've used the UK system but rarely used public transport abroad on my own. It was great to see how other countries work, and I couldn't help but be impressed by the efficiency at the way the Germans work. I work for Arriva in the UK (buses, not trains) but I was amazed at how happy and friendly the staff at DB were.

 

[fandroid]

That's if you ever get your ticket checked...
Of course I wouldn't risk it but just throwing it out there. I've just returned today from a 5 day trip around Germany, and could count on one hand the amount of times my rail pass was checked. I think there is a lot to be said for basing yourself in one place for a number of nights so that you can enjoy your days out without having to carry luggage around every day.

I'd also backup suggestions of a trip down the Rhine valley, I did that yesterday from Köln to Frankfurt, stopping an hour in Koblenz and then making a 2 min connection in Mainz thanks to the train manager informing everyone before we got there! I went back high speed on the ICE to finish my trip.

I have to say I was impressed by the German rail system, I've used the UK system but rarely used public transport abroad on my own. It was great to see how other countries work, and I couldn't help but be impressed by the efficiency at the way the Germans work. I work for Arriva in the UK (buses, not trains) but I was amazed at how happy and friendly the staff at DB were.

My experience is that you will nearly always get your ticket checked on IC and ICE trains. I was really talking about local trams, buses and U-Bahns. There it's a random thing. I once had my ticket checked twice in a few hours in Hanover, by different inspectors. The inspectors are often in plain clothes and totally invisible until they get close. Berlin is another place where checks are more common.

My general experience of DB is that timekeeping has gone downhill in recent years, especially around Cologne & Duesseldorf where I usually visit. Look out for the dreaded word 'spater' on the screens.

 

[eastwestdivide]

In case you hadn't worked it out, the IC trains along the Rhine past Bingen-Koblenz etc follow the west bank (unless there's major disruption), so pick your seats accordingly. Watch the opposite bank for trains on the other side too - you might end up in a race with a freight.

 

[PhilipF]

That's if you ever get your ticket checked...
Of course I wouldn't risk it but just throwing it out there. I've just returned today from a 5 day trip around Germany, and could count on one hand the amount of times my rail pass was checked. I think there is a lot to be said for basing yourself in one place for a number of nights so that you can enjoy your days out without having to carry luggage around every day.

Find this interesting. In June, we took a rail trip into Germany and based ourselves in Koblenze for five days, four days on the trains, and on the Sunday we took a boat trip up the Rhine to Mainze - well worth doing that:P
Pretty well all the 'local' rail trip we caught we hardly had our tickets checked at all, fact can't remember any at all. I was thinking to myself the Germans must be really honest decent people. Rare indeed not to get tickets at least checked, if not marked, over here, as they should be BTW.
Just puzzled by the perceived honesty of the German people

Yes I do agree with you, a few days based in one centre is good. Certainly worth doing in Switzerland for example. But not so good if say on a long tour through several countries - can be risky in fact, though we have never not found accommodation in the past. Best to book the next nights room the day before.

 

[starrymarkb]

Not sure why you chose overnight in Hannover on day 3, it's not the most ahem exciting or visually thrilling city! I'd be tempted to head closer to Nuremburg on that day, perhaps overnight somewhere historic with superb, cheap beers like Bamberg?

Hildesheim is just a few miles south of Hannover and is meant to be very nice. Unfortunately all I saw of it during my weekend there in August was the airfield and a Hypermarket of cheap beer*.


*OK and Within Temptation, Marilyn Manson (terrible), Covenant, And One, Paradise Lost. etc etc