Responsibility for platform ticket checks/automated barriers

[ANorthernGuard]

The long-standing ticket checks and sales at the stairway to the northbound Platforms 3&4 at Stockport have always been carried out by staff in Northern-like uniforms. Recently, however, there have at times been blockades of the stairway to the southbound Platforms 1&2 (which used to be unprotected most of the time) carried out by a posse of staff in Virgin uniforms, complete with red necker. Presumably their role is mainly to stop ticketless boarding of southbound Virgin services - some of them were initially poorly trained about the extent of validity of GM concessionary travel passes on Northern services.

Maybe whichever TOC has most revenue at risk on a given platform takes on the responsibility for checks, regardless of which company manages the station?

I would have thought that all TOCs have an obligation, as part of their duty of care to their employees, to try to preempt, where reasonably practical, unpleasant confrontations on board the train between fare evaders and the train manager/guard.

Duty of care to their employees?? you try working a 142 for 10 hours lol. On a serious note Virgin are Blockading a lot more of their stations recently Stockport & Macc are 2 obvious ones for me) and G4(I havent got a clue)S have been doing the barriers Manchester bound for years. And TOC's don't really care about reducing unpleasant confrontation regarding tickets. They expect us just to walk away..easier said than done.
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Oh you're so funny. Statistically, chances are that you've sold me a ticket from Mauldeth Road.

But I'm intruiged... where is the blockade at E Didsbury? If they are catching people arriving southbound then they just say they got on at Mauldeth Road surely? The ticket office was closed there if its the after schools?

Its more targeting the numerous school kids, as most get on at Mauldeth Road and Burnage anyway it acts as a good deterrent. They hold a lot of blockades at Mauldeth Road as well for people coming from Manchester and I would say that those 2 stations do have the biggest fare evading problem. When we set off from Picc we are lucky to just get to the Middle let alone the whole train.

 

[northwichcat]

The long-standing ticket checks and sales at the stairway to the northbound Platforms 3&4 at Stockport have always been carried out by staff in Northern-like uniforms. Recently, however, there have at times been blockades of the stairway to the southbound Platforms 1&2 (which used to be unprotected most of the time) carried out by a posse of staff in Virgin uniforms, complete with red necker.

I remember when in 2008 both sets of stairs had RPIs and the ones at the bottom of the stairs to platforms 1/2 usually didn't ask to see your ticket if you had just come in the direction of platforms 3/4.

 

[156441]

Network rail get the ultimate say in where G4S are positioned on the station and partly the role they take. This is why towards the end of 2012 there was slight movement in where the 'desks' on P1-4 were moved to and in conjunction with Northern and Network rail passengers without tickets had to return to the booking office/TVM to purchase a ticket rather than buy on the platform.

There is an agreement with network rail that they check all tickets on trains arriving at P1-4 and they can block the entrance to 9-12 and 13+14 to check tickets from these platforms and stop those who used to dodge over the bridge to use the lift to escape the station situated behind Costa in the satellite lounge.

They then have powers to roam platforms 5-8 and target Northern service arrivals and departures only. (How well that is policed remains to be seen!)

They also have powers to do special revenue checks at the station exits but these are pre planned with the authorisation of Network rail and in conjunction with BTP.

As far as Stockport is concerned there is an agreement with Virgin that they check all services arriving on the Manchester bound platform.

That's info direct from one of the team leaders/managers for G4S so is obviously subject to them being right. (They manage the planning of staff so should know.)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Network rail get the ultimate say in where G4S are positioned on the station and partly the role they take. This is why towards the end of 2012 there was slight movement in where the 'desks' on P1-4 were moved to and in conjunction with Northern and Network rail passengers without tickets had to return to the booking office/TVM to purchase a ticket rather than buy on the platform.

There is an agreement with network rail that they check all tickets on trains arriving at P1-4 and they can block the entrance to 9-12 and 13+14 to check tickets from these platforms and stop those who used to dodge over the bridge to use the lift to escape the station situated behind Costa in the satellite lounge.

They then have powers to roam platforms 5-8 and target Northern service arrivals and departures only. (How well that is policed remains to be seen!)

They also have powers to do special revenue checks at the station exits but these are pre planned with the authorisation of Network rail and in conjunction with BTP.

As far as Stockport is concerned there is an agreement with Virgin that they check all services arriving on the Manchester bound platform.

That's info direct from one of the team leaders/managers for G4S so is obviously subject to them being right. (They manage the planning of staff so should know.)

That seems a most comprehensive summary and reveals the Network Rail input into such matters at Manchester Piccadilly railway station. Some forum members do seem to have formed their own assumptions with regard to different locations there but with no regard for the actual contractual responsibilities of these staff in actuality.

 

[Starmill]

Well thats very interesting, and of course Paul, important that we take contractual obligations blah blah into consideration, but its still a waste of time when a full train arrives because they cannot possibly check everyones tickets. You could use yesterday's (I know, I have (by accident!!!)) - hell, you could probably use a seat reservation.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well thats very interesting, and of course Paul, important that we take contractual obligations blah blah into consideration, but its still a waste of time when a full train arrives because they cannot possibly check everyones tickets. You could use yesterday's (I know, I have (by accident!!!)) - hell, you could probably use a seat reservation.

The requirements of the Railway Bylaws are always cited as "gospel" for all relevant situations on RailUK forums, so do I therefore take it that the correct adherence to the principle of the ticket being shown for examination by every single passenger takes preference over the queuing requirements to exit a platform after a journey, as large numbers of people wil be involved who may well find themselves in such a situation. Is there any official ruling on this specific manner, as I can well imagine the peak periods would be typical of this.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Well thats very interesting, and of course Paul, important that we take contractual obligations blah blah into consideration, but its still a waste of time when a full train arrives because they cannot possibly check everyones tickets. You could use yesterday's (I know, I have (by accident!!!)) - hell, you could probably use a seat reservation.

Someone I know accidentally used a nnetwork to get through. There again they required a specific department at that station in an urgent manoeuvre!

 

[Starmill]

Oh, I've shown London Travelcards (on orange stock), LM-only tickets and a single from Porthmadog to Harlech and other crazy things to Northern guards on a train home at the end of a long day, and they've always been good-natured about it (especially since I had a valid ticket - somewhere). At least they actually realised!

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Oh, I've shown London Travelcards (on orange stock), LM-only tickets and a single from Porthmadog to Harlech and other crazy things to Northern guards on a train home at the end of a long day, and they've always been good-natured about it (especially since I had a valid ticket - somewhere). At least they actually realised!

95% of us know when someone is being honest and when someone is trying it on. It normally starts off with the pat-me-down dance

 

[2Dogbox]

95% of us know when someone is being honest and when someone is trying it on. It normally starts off with the pat-me-down dance

This is a similar dance to the "which pocket is the railcard in" dance.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

This is a similar dance to the "which pocket is the railcard in" dance.

Very similar in moves however the pat-me-down dance usually starts from the top pocket and moves down lol

 

[2Dogbox]

Very similar in moves however the pat-me-down dance usually starts from the top pocket and moves down lol

Yes that's true !

 

[Goatboy]

Very similar in moves however the pat-me-down dance usually starts from the top pocket and moves down lol

The few times where I've not known where my ticket is and been suprised to find a barrier check in operation I've probably done exactly this 'dance'. Given that the 'dance' always resulted in me eventually finding which pocket my valid ticket was in, it would perhaps suggest that this isn't the sole preserve of ticketless travellers..

 

[ANorthernGuard]

The few times where I've not known where my ticket is and been suprised to find a barrier check in operation I've probably done exactly this 'dance'. Given that the 'dance' always resulted in me eventually finding which pocket my valid ticket was in, it would perhaps suggest that this isn't the sole preserve of ticketless travellers..

The difference is you complete the Dance in a reasonable amount of time


Fare Dodgers it can go on and on and on (and they really think we fall for it)