Revenue from booking engines

[Camden]

Most TOCs have their own booking portal and apps and promote them heavily, even when they are clearly similar to others and based on licensed technology.

Does the TOC get to keep a commission for the sales made through their apps and portals, on top of whatever they make had the ticket been sold over the counter at a national rail station?

 

[Sleepy]

Simple answer: yes, it used to be 9%

 

[Merseysider]

Yes.

But they also have to pay a fee to the train company whose ticket machine is used to print the tickets; a fee which is higher if tickets are printed at a ticket office.

So lower value transactions actually cost the train company money unless the fulfillment method is something like an e-ticket.

 

[edwin_m]

I believe the commission on a ticket sold online is the same as on a ticket sold at the ticket office. But even after the seller has paid out any fee for ticket on departure, they are still better off on most transactions because the costs of selling a ticket online are much lower.

 

[alistairlees]

I believe the commission on a ticket sold online is the same as on a ticket sold at the ticket office. But even after the seller has paid out any fee for ticket on departure, they are still better off on most transactions because the costs of selling a ticket online are much lower.

It’s 5% for online and 9% for ticket offices

 

[Camden]

So a co-ordinated action to boycott or favour particular booking sites could have quite an impact on the companies in question?

I'm thinking about fare rise times, a real way for passengers to punish those companies that put through harsh rises, and reward those that keep it to a minimum.

 

[Edders23]

Surely it makes no difference if a TOC puts prices up they go up at all purchase points whether operated by the TOC or not ?

 

[yorkie]

So a co-ordinated action to boycott or favour particular booking sites could have quite an impact on the companies in question?

I'm thinking about fare rise times, a real way for passengers to punish those companies that put through harsh rises, and reward those that keep it to a minimum.

I have heard of people buying their low value tickets from a company they dislike, then collecting them from a machine operated by a company they prefer. But the difference this would make is minimal unless a huge number of people did it, which isn't realistically going to happen.

 

[Starmill]

Revenue from website commission is probably not significant enough to damage a TOC much, but it is no doubt something that's monitored.

East Coast were said to experience a significant drop in commission at the end of East Coast Rewards. However, this was counter-balanced in their business plan by extra ticket sales for their own services. The truth of what impact that had will probably never be made public. It probably wasn't that great.

 

[hwl]

Revenue from website commission is probably not significant enough to damage a TOC much, but it is no doubt something that's monitored.

East Coast were said to experience a significant drop in commission at the end of East Coast Rewards. However, this was counter-balanced in their business plan by extra ticket sales for their own services. The truth of what impact that had will probably never be made public. It probably wasn't that great.

The commission for external ticket sales is in the other income category (e.g. car parking) that isn't looked at by DfT for subsidy calculations so quite predictably profitable for the owning group.

 

[edwin_m]

It’s 5% for online and 9% for ticket offices

So the company that runs the train and gets the revenue would also prefer tickets to be sold online, even by other people, as they have to fork out less commission.

 

[Failed Unit]

Revenue from website commission is probably not significant enough to damage a TOC much, but it is no doubt something that's monitored.

East Coast were said to experience a significant drop in commission at the end of East Coast Rewards. However, this was counter-balanced in their business plan by extra ticket sales for their own services. The truth of what impact that had will probably never be made public. It probably wasn't that great.

For interest how did that work? I used to be all tickets on east coast while rewards were on offer. Once that stopped I typically use the site of the TOC that the service I was using. So I continued to use East Coast for their own services. Were they expected to sell more tickets once rewards was gone or are you just saying the commission they go didn't balance out the rewards. Just seems odd that removing something good like rewards was going to generate extra sales (unless people couldn't use reward tickets and now needed to buy them)

Now if anyone knows of a TOC that can offer bike tickets at the same time as booking please share - I will use them all the time. Don't like the new process LNER work which is basically book ticket then phone them or go to the station for the bike. I have had instances where I have booked at train, then needed to change the time because of lack of bike spaces. Not problem the majority of the UK will care about - but one where the booking engines have gone backwards. I digress.

 

[Starmill]

unless people couldn't use reward tickets and now needed to buy them

My impression is that this is what they wanted - people who previously got free First Class rewards tickets to switch to paying £200 for First Class Advance tickets.

I don't know if anyone did, but I didn't.

 

[Camden]

Surely it makes no difference if a TOC puts prices up they go up at all purchase points whether operated by the TOC or not ?

Yes, but if the passengers buying that TOCs tickets all purchased them via a different company's portal or app, it deprives that TOC of extra commission.

Example:
CretinRail puts up their fares by 25%
StillAwfulButBetterTrans puts up their fares by 5%.

A consumer group calls out CretinRail for their obscene rises, and tells the general public to boycott their website and app, and use StillAwfulButBetterTrans website and app instead when purchasing tickets.

CretinRail loses out on any commission they used to get (whether on their own tickets or others) through the boycott, while the other TOC coins it.

Next annual rise time, all the TOCs know that if they're the highest then they'll get it in the neck, and if they're the lowest it will be them getting "endorsed" instead.

Passengers have no option but to travel with the TOCs they do, but what websites and apps they buy from and use is a different matter.

 

[Failed Unit]

My impression is that this is what they wanted - people who previously got free First Class rewards tickets to switch to paying £200 for First Class Advance tickets.

I don't know if anyone did, but I didn't.

Strange business plan - but I was with you. The free tickets were a nice bonus. Once they went I just didn't make the journey. The free tickets were on fairly empty trains so it really only cost them the food and drink.

As you say we will never know if it worked. I suspect not or VTEC would have published how much scrapping rewards increased their revenue.

 

[LewFinnis]

I always used to use Great Western for the Nectar points but gave up when I kept having password problems with them. At least using train companies means the money stays in the industry to some degree rather than going to leeches like the Trainline.

 

[raveon]

Now if anyone knows of a TOC that can offer bike tickets at the same time as booking please share - I will use them all the time. Don't like the new process LNER work which is basically book ticket then phone them or go to the station for the bike. I have had instances where I have booked at train, then needed to change the time because of lack of bike spaces. Not problem the majority of the UK will care about - but one where the booking engines have gone backwards. I digress.

TPE does (for all TOCS not just their own services). It is my primary booking site for this very reason.

 

[Sleepy]

GWR's mixing desk version does.

 

[Jozhua]

Sites like Trainpal take no booking fee and allow you to print at any TOC station. Is this still a somewhat profitable endeavour?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I always used to use Great Western for the Nectar points but gave up when I kept having password problems with them. At least using train companies means the money stays in the industry to some degree rather than going to leeches like the Trainline.

Trainline is as much "in the industry" as the TOCs and ROSCOs.
They supply the underlying booking engine and distribution platforms for a significant number of TOCs.
You use them even if you book direct with those TOCs.
They also produced the first online booking system for rail in the UK.

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes, but if the passengers buying that TOCs tickets all purchased them via a different company's portal or app, it deprives that TOC of extra commission.

Example:
CretinRail puts up their fares by 25%
StillAwfulButBetterTrans puts up their fares by 5%.

A consumer group calls out CretinRail for their obscene rises, and tells the general public to boycott their website and app, and use StillAwfulButBetterTrans website and app instead when purchasing tickets.

CretinRail loses out on any commission they used to get (whether on their own tickets or others) through the boycott, while the other TOC coins it.

Next annual rise time, all the TOCs know that if they're the highest then they'll get it in the neck, and if they're the lowest it will be them getting "endorsed" instead.

Passengers have no option but to travel with the TOCs they do, but what websites and apps they buy from and use is a different matter.

Regulated fare rises are determined (in the round) by HM Government.

This is just like the proposals years ago that everyone boycotss BP when filling their cars up, thus forcing BP to drop their prices. The economy doesn’t work like that!

 

[WatcherZero]

Trainline is a huge British success story a small seed at Virgin Rail spun off into a multi billion pound company, though ironically they lose money on their UK operation its their foreign ticket engine licensing where they turn a profit.

I presume Trainpal are making their money from the Travel Agent Commission rather than booking fees, which according to ATOC is 3% as standard (after paying a £300 licensing fee and proving you have a minimum of 2 staff or 20% of staff dedicated to selling tickets whichever is higher).