Ribble existing bus depots

[TheGrandWazoo]

Quite possibly - the Skerton site came into Ribble possession in 1927 with the takeover of Lancashire and Westmorland. The building which was to see out Ribble's BET/NBC days in Lancaster was opened in 1930. Apparently Dalton Square still had some life in it, if it lasted until 1934

Depends what they were using it for, I guess? All interesting stuff.

 

[robertclark125]

This is the Fleetwood depot in 1981, http://fyldebus.blogspot.com/2016/03/ribble-on-fylde-part-1-origins.html

There's also this photo from Keswick in 1972, with what looks like a depot building behind the coach. https://www.flickr.com/photos/23207961@N07/2548848322/

And this whole group, where the 1972 photo comes from, may also provide answers!

Bus UK Ribble Motor Services Pre 1988

Ribble Motor Services were a large regional bus operator in the North West of England, based in Preston. The company was started in 1919, and grew to be the largest operator in the region, with a territory stretching from Carlisle to south Lancashire. Autys tours of Bury was taken over by Ribble...

www.flickr.com

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

This is the Fleetwood depot in 1981, http://fyldebus.blogspot.com/2016/03/ribble-on-fylde-part-1-origins.html

There's also this photo from Keswick in 1972, with what looks like a depot building behind the coach. https://www.flickr.com/photos/23207961@N07/2548848322/

And this whole group, where the 1972 photo comes from, may also provide answers!

Bus UK Ribble Motor Services Pre 1988

Ribble Motor Services were a large regional bus operator in the North West of England, based in Preston. The company was started in 1919, and grew to be the largest operator in the region, with a territory stretching from Carlisle to south Lancashire. Autys tours of Bury was taken over by Ribble...

www.flickr.com

A wide shot of Keswick showing just how big the site was https://www.flickr.com/photos/23207...B1-9KwVz7-egpvHb-5fiFKX-egiKXi-ce5jN7-DNStbX/

And here you can see the two sheds https://www.flickr.com/photos/68702...B1-9KwVz7-egpvHb-5fiFKX-egiKXi-ce5jN7-DNStbX/

Remember that by Stagecoach's purchase, the depot was down to an allocation of about 10 vehicles operating to Seatoller and the main Cumberland route to Workington, plus a few other bits. I don't know when Ribble stopped garaging a vehicle there but would guess the 1970s?

Always thought Clitheroe was a small town with a large depot https://www.flickr.com/photos/niaga...ttHAz-8w8vRT-CsmRc-BY15h-ac89ZS-bxRsQN-89edcr and was surprised it survived as long as it did

 

[David Verity]

A wide shot of Keswick showing just how big the site was https://www.flickr.com/photos/23207...B1-9KwVz7-egpvHb-5fiFKX-egiKXi-ce5jN7-DNStbX/

And here you can see the two sheds https://www.flickr.com/photos/68702...B1-9KwVz7-egpvHb-5fiFKX-egiKXi-ce5jN7-DNStbX/

Remember that by Stagecoach's purchase, the depot was down to an allocation of about 10 vehicles operating to Seatoller and the main Cumberland route to Workington, plus a few other bits. I don't know when Ribble stopped garaging a vehicle there but would guess the 1970s?

Always thought Clitheroe was a small town with a large depot https://www.flickr.com/photos/niaga...ttHAz-8w8vRT-CsmRc-BY15h-ac89ZS-bxRsQN-89edcr and was surprised it survived as long as it did

Nice set of pictures thanks. In the 1972 picture 874 would have arrived with the first departure from Penrith on service 74 from which it went on to do the morning departure for Manchester on X40. Penrith had also taken over the Summer Saturday am departure from Keswick on X63 service to Newcastle. Keswick had by then lost its depot status with the retirement of Dick Scott who had been the last Inspector in Charge. Keswick stopped appearing on the allocation sheets after 1971; the garage building was on the opposite side to the departure platform and unless anyone knows otherwise I don't think the white building behind 874 had been an operational part of the Bus Station.

As is well known the whole property achieved a notoriety beyond its status until it was sold to be replaced by a Booths Supermarket with a small bus station alongside. What might not be so well known was that the sale included Stagecoach's exclusive right to use the bus station. Not sure if that had ever come to the notice of the competition authorities but it succeeded in having Reay's turfed out of it after they started a rival bus service.

As for Clitheroe it always punched above its assumed weight including operations on X13/X23 and X27. It had an allocation circa 20 vehicles and after the demise of Centenary Way garage it became a parent depot to Burnley. It lasted into Blazefield/Transdev days by which time Burnley and Pendle had been taken over. It remained a Lancashire United (new version) garage until 2002 when it was considered to require repairs beyond its economic value.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Nice set of pictures thanks. In the 1972 picture 874 would have arrived with the first departure from Penrith on service 74 from which it went on to do the morning departure for Manchester on X40. Penrith had also taken over the Summer Saturday am departure from Keswick on X63 service to Newcastle. Keswick had by then lost its depot status with the retirement of Dick Scott who had been the last Inspector in Charge. Keswick stopped appearing on the allocation sheets after 1971; the garage building was on the opposite side to the departure platform and unless anyone knows otherwise I don't think the white building behind 874 had been an operational part of the Bus Station.

As is well known the whole property achieved a notoriety beyond its status until it was sold to be replaced by a Booths Supermarket with a small bus station alongside. What might not be so well known was that the sale included Stagecoach's exclusive right to use the bus station. Not sure if that had ever come to the notice of the competition authorities but it succeeded in having Reay's turfed out of it after they started a rival bus service.

As for Clitheroe it always punched above its assumed weight including operations on X13/X23 and X27. It had an allocation circa 20 vehicles and after the demise of Centenary Way garage it became a parent depot to Burnley. It lasted into Blazefield/Transdev days by which time Burnley and Pendle had been taken over. It remained a Lancashire United (new version) garage until 2002 when it was considered to require repairs beyond its economic value.

Whilst Stagecoach may have had exclusive rights, I'm sure that would have been trumped by the subsequent judgments on competition from the OFT, especially after the Southern Vectis case. Whether Reays would've fancied the legal battle is a moot point but the same issue has been similarly concerned Cwmbran bus station where the judge said that "land agreements are no longer exempt from competition law" by Phil Anslow vs both Stagecoach and the site owners.

As for Clitheroe, the exit of Burnley depot was definitely a positive development. I do remember going to Clitheroe probably 2001/2 when it was Blazefield and it looked rather tired. Mind you, with a Burnley depot and a desirable site in the midst of existing housing, it was a surprise Stagecoach hadn't got rid of it in their days but then again, they seemed to have lost interest with Lancashire at that time.

I can recall a trip on a Ribble VR (probably 1988) and calling in to Garstang and the vehicle reversing into the shed, passengers kept on board, waiting for a driver swap. That was another fairly large facility that Stagecoach "realised". Lots of photos of that site on Flickr as one prolific poster was a former driver there

 

[mbonwick]

Going slightly off topic hear, but I'm sure the word at the time was that Reay's were chucked out of Keswick bus station due to non-payment of stand fees - nothing to do with the exclusivity agreement (not that it would have stood up anyway).

 

[David Verity]

Going slightly off topic hear, but I'm sure the word at the time was that Reay's were chucked out of Keswick bus station due to non-payment of stand fees - nothing to do with the exclusivity agreement (not that it would have stood up anyway).

Thanks - that's interesting. If Reay's were supposed to be paying departure charges to whom should they have been paying? Do Stagecoach pay departure charges?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Thanks - that's interesting. If Reay's were supposed to be paying departure charges to whom should they have been paying? Do Stagecoach pay departure charges?

Were other operators charged and Stagecoach not, then that would be a breach of competition law too. As regards who gets paid, it would either be Booths or the land owner; in the case of the latter, it would be someone like a pension fund or property firm. I don't think it is owned by the council.

 

[oldman]

According to a 2016 report by the Council and National Park:

Keswick Bus Station is owned by Booths and let to Stagecoach, who has recently installed new information displays. Other operators can use the bus station for a fairly nominal charge. It is in a good location, although can become congested in summer months. Although there is no specific bus shelter, there is space under Booths’ canopy.

Given the facilities provided, I would hope the charge was fairly nominal.

 

[mbonwick]

Stand fees go to Booths I believe.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So.... of the Ribble depots

Still in use - Preston, Bootle, Bolton, Carlisle, Kendal, Aintree (offices only)
Still standing but in other uses - Blackburn, Ormskirk, Skem, Ulverston, Appleby, Ingleton, Skipton, Wigan, Chorley (?), Bury, Blackpool (TR)

That right?

 

[David Verity]

So.... of the Ribble depots

Still in use - Preston, Bootle, Bolton, Carlisle, Kendal, Aintree (offices only)
Still standing but in other uses - Blackburn, Ormskirk, Skem, Ulverston, Appleby, Ingleton, Skipton, Wigan, Chorley (?), Bury, Blackpool (TR)

That right?

Not sure I'd count Ingleton, I thought it had been suggested the building had been demolished. Does half of Southport merit inclusion?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Not sure I'd count Ingleton, I thought it had been suggested the building had been demolished. Does half of Southport merit inclusion?

On this thread, it had been mentioned it had been sold; it's also a moot point as it was Pennine's depot not Ribble

I guess the depot doesn't really exist in Southport but perhaps the same as Aintree?

 

[themaster985]

Entrance hall and first floor might be described as impressive - ground floor was distinctly average.

Taken on 13 May 2018. Walked up those steps and inside many, many times! Ground floor to the left was mostly ticket audit. Ground floor to the right mostly traffic office, with another room for tours and centred holidays run by Mr Cox [aka Long Tom]

 

[themaster985]

Whilst Stagecoach may have had exclusive rights, I'm sure that would have been trumped by the subsequent judgments on competition from the OFT, especially after the Southern Vectis case. Whether Reays would've fancied the legal battle is a moot point but the same issue has been similarly concerned Cwmbran bus station where the judge said that "land agreements are no longer exempt from competition law" by Phil Anslow vs both Stagecoach and the site owners.

As for Clitheroe, the exit of Burnley depot was definitely a positive development. I do remember going to Clitheroe probably 2001/2 when it was Blazefield and it looked rather tired. Mind you, with a Burnley depot and a desirable site in the midst of existing housing, it was a surprise Stagecoach hadn't got rid of it in their days but then again, they seemed to have lost interest with Lancashire at that time.

I can recall a trip on a Ribble VR (probably 1988) and calling in to Garstang and the vehicle reversing into the shed, passengers kept on board, waiting for a driver swap. That was another fairly large facility that Stagecoach "realised". Lots of photos of that site on Flickr as one prolific poster was a former driver there

I presume you mean my Flickr site. There are plenty of other photos taken of vehicles at Garstang, but this is one I put together with some narrative of events there

GARSTANG - THE Best Ribble Outstation

This file is a duplicate of the one I had on Fotopic about Garstang outstation. As I have copies of 98% of my photos, that was not going to be the problem. Anyway, fortunately, today, I managed to find the text files for many of my early sets on Fotopic. So here goes - it may take me a while...

www.flickr.com

 

[David Verity]

I presume you mean my Flickr site. There are plenty of other photos taken of vehicles at Garstang, but this is one I put together with some narrative of events there

GARSTANG - THE Best Ribble Outstation

This file is a duplicate of the one I had on Fotopic about Garstang outstation. As I have copies of 98% of my photos, that was not going to be the problem. Anyway, fortunately, today, I managed to find the text files for many of my early sets on Fotopic. So here goes - it may take me a while...

www.flickr.com

In my time at Frenchwood Towers Selborne Street garage was always detailed to send an empty bus down to Tithebarn Street just after 1230 to effect the changeover with a bus which had been outstationed at Garstang. What's that you say Frenchwood lunchtime started at 1230? Well I never. In case you're wondering why Frenchwood staff couldn't ride into town on the P1 like everyone else staff passes weren't valid on this Preston Corporation joint service.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I presume you mean my Flickr site. There are plenty of other photos taken of vehicles at Garstang, but this is one I put together with some narrative of events there

GARSTANG - THE Best Ribble Outstation

This file is a duplicate of the one I had on Fotopic about Garstang outstation. As I have copies of 98% of my photos, that was not going to be the problem. Anyway, fortunately, today, I managed to find the text files for many of my early sets on Fotopic. So here goes - it may take me a while...

www.flickr.com

Indeed - that flickr site

A very nice record of a rural depot. Was the National Travelworld office still going at the end???

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

A chance conversation related to this. Prior to the current facility, there was a bus station on the same site in Kendal. Can anyone recall the place?

Looking on flickr, it seems to have been a grim and dark undercover, 1960s brutalist affair.

 

[David Verity]

A chance conversation related to this. Prior to the current facility, there was a bus station on the same site in Kendal. Can anyone recall the place?

Looking on flickr, it seems to have been a grim and dark undercover, 1960s brutalist affair.

There was the apron at the garage in Station Road but that was used only by the express services and there was a waiting room and slot machine for refreshments. You entered the garage and took two left turns to bring you out the other side on to the apron - all with passengers on board. Standerwick coaches refuelled at Kendal en route to and from Keswick, again regardless of whether the passengers were on board - the main objective was to stop them getting off the coach and wandering about. The building dates from 1959 and would fit the date in your description - it's still in use today by Stagecoach. The bus station site on Blackhall Road was opened in 1972 and the bus stands are now outside in roughly the same location. So I guess that might be the one you're thinking of.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There was the apron at the garage in Station Road but that was used only by the express services and there was a waiting room and slot machine for refreshments. You entered the garage and took two left turns to bring you out the other side on to the apron - all with passengers on board. Standerwick coaches refuelled at Kendal en route to and from Keswick, again regardless of whether the passengers were on board - the main objective was to stop them getting off the coach and wandering about. The building dates from 1959 and would fit the date in your description - it's still in use today by Stagecoach. The bus station site on Blackhall Road was opened in 1972 and the bus stands are now outside in roughly the same location. So I guess that might be the one you're thinking of.

It was the Blackhall Road bus station that I meant is on the same site as today, rather than the depot.

I thought it looked like 1960s brutalism but it was only built in 1972! I'm assuming it was a council built affair, and didn't have a long life, going not long after deregulation and lost under the new shopping centre. I never visited it but the few shots I've seen suggest an ambience similar to Darlington or Sunderland Central - pretty grim?

That said, the current bus station is pretty bleak to wait for a bus in and the council have said (in a doc that I stumbled on) that like a number of buildings on that road, it is architecturally poor and a poor advert for the town

 

[David Verity]

Or think Manchester Arndale or Newcastle Eldon Square! Never seen the bus station in Darlington and have only vague recollections of Sunderland.

Ribble would never have put their financial support into such a venture by then, particularly as much of the operation was subject to Section 34 funding. But it succeeded in getting the buses away from the street stops and the passengers in out of the rain.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Or think Manchester Arndale or Newcastle Eldon Square! Never seen the bus station in Darlington and have only vague recollections of Sunderland.

Ribble would never have put their financial support into such a venture by then, particularly as much of the operation was subject to Section 34 funding. But it succeeded in getting the buses away from the street stops and the passengers in out of the rain.

Eldon Square was something else!!

I didn't think Ribble would've been funding something like that especially in that era, hence why I thought it might be of municipal pride. If it was anything like Darlington, I imagine it would have had a dodgy cafe doing the most horrific cardiac casseroles plus some half damp packets of three biscuits, and a set of very iffy and wiffy toilets.

 

[randyrippley]

Just found this reprint of a 1927 report on the status of bus services in north Lancs, gives some background to Ribble's precursors.
Some of the service frequencies were remarkable

BUS PROGRESS AT LANCASTER AND MORECAMBE. | 9th August 1927 | The Commercial Motor Archive

'BUS PROGRESS AT LANCASTER AND MORECAMBE.' first printed in the 9th August 1927 issue of Commercial Motor

archive.commercialmotor.com

I've edited this to remove the most obvious typos from the OCR scanning

BUS PROGRESS AT LANCASTER AND MORECAMBE.

Some of the Latest Activities of Private Concerns and the Local Authorities.


The popularity of travelling by road and the opening up of hitherto almost inaccessible districts continue to increase. This has been the case around Lancaster, especially in the Lune Valley and Morecambe Bay districts. Twelve years ago the travel facilities, apart from railways, were meagre in the extreme. They consisted of the local electric tramways at Lancaster, which still run to Bowerham and Scotforth, horse-tramways between Lancaster and Morecambe and petrol-driven tramcars from West End Morecambe to Heysham.

Catering for outside districts was left to local carriers, and a small number of motor chars-a-bancs which were chiefly operated on trips; consequently journeys other than those by the railway were made on foot. This state of affairs is now changed, and five private undertakings, in addition to the municipal authorities, provide ample passenger services in this area.

The first step towards better facilities was made in 1916 by the Lancaster Corporation, when it introduced a small fleet of electric, battery-driven 20-seater buses to run on short routes in the city. These vehicles have proved very satisfactory and still take their share of the traffic. They have seen 11 years' continuous service. Recent additions to the fleet consist of two Daimler saloon buses (one a 24-seater and the other a 32-seater), and a 14-seater Overland. All three run on pneumatic tyres.

The replacement of the horsed tramcars running between Lancaster and Morecambe by a motorbus service filled a long-felt want, and on this route, which is now covered by buses belonging to Lancashire and Westmorland Motor Services, Ltd., and County Motors (Lancaster), Ltd., there is approximately a three-minute service during' the summer months. The Lancashire and Westmorland services extend up to the Lake District, and with a fleet of close on a hundred vehicles, consisting of Leyland Lions and Associated Daimler vehicles of various seating capacities, regular services all the year round connect up Lancaster with Carnforth, Kendal, Keswick, Preston, Windermere, Grasmere, Silverdale, etc.

The Lancaster Carnforth Warton route is worked by Mr. J. T. Atkinson, who runs Leyland and Fiat buses. The service between Preston, Lancaster and Morecambe is run in conjunction with Ribble Motor Services, Ltd., of Preston. A number of the Lancashire and Westmorland buses on this route run between Preston and Kendal.

The Lune Valley, Ingleton, Sedburgh and Kirkby Lonsdale are served by County Motors (Lancaster), Ltd. This company, which now operates between 30 and 40 buses, practically all running on pneumatic tyres, started operations in 1922 on the Kirkby Lonsdale route, and has since persistently developed and extended its services. Over 60 per cent. of the company's fleet consists of Guy 20 to 32-seater saloons, the greater part of the rest being Thorneycrofts having similar bodies. One service run by this concern is via Cockerham to Knott End, where a ferry connects with Fleetwood. From there the journey can be continued by electric tram to Blackpool, special through tickets being issued for bus, boat and tram.

The promenade horsed tramcars at Morecambe ceased running last season (as noted in The Commercial Motor at the time) and a motor service was instituted. Morecambe Corporation was one of the pioneers of six-wheeled double-deckers and employs six Guy vehicles of this class. The fleet also contains two toast-rack 37-seater four, wheeled Guy buses, five 30-seater saloons (also Guys) and two Leyland double-deckers. Two more six-wheeled Guy double-deckers are on order.

From Bare, along the promenade to the Battery Hotel, buses run at intervals of about three minutes during busy periods, and every 20 minutes there is a through bus to Heysham Village. This service is worked in conjunction with Heysham and District Motors, Ltd., which, under another title, operated the petrol-driven tramcars from the Battery Hotel to Heysham until buses were bought to replace them. Heysham and District Motors, Ltd., employs Karrier 46-seater double-deckers, 32-seater single-deckers and 14-seater Overlands.

 

[David Verity]

Interesting piece of history there - thank you

 

[Ken H]

Ingleton had been an outstation of Lancaster depot. The property was owned by Pennine Motor Services who were Ribble's joint operators on the Skipton-Lancaster group of services. Joint operation was outlawed under deregulation and the relationship faded away, especially after Pennine shrank its service to operate between Skipton and Giggleswick only. Stagecoach still have a limited presence in Ingleton on school and college contracts. The current fleetcard shows two buses outstationed at Ingleton although I confess to not knowing exactly where the location is.

the old pennine bus garage is still there on the A65
(Link to google street view of garage)

Google Maps

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goo.gl

I know its an old image but it was still there last week as i drove past!

The one in Settle is still there in Whitefriars car park

Sadly both unused.

Alongside the Kirkby Lonsdale Coach Kire Skipton-Lancaster service, there is Stagecoach 80 to Lancaster. There is also the odd 81 Ingleton - Kirkby Lonsdale - Lancaster bus.

Bus services in Ingleton

Buses run from Ingleton to Settle, Lancaster, Kirkby Lonsdale and nearby villages

getdown.org.uk

All start from the community centre which is on the old train station site.

 

[Gez.SCNW]

The building on the A65 appears to have been sold. Could they be stabled overnight at Bibbys Coaches?

The old Pennine garage is now owned by Bibby's, we make use the yard of H & M Craftsman, just across the road from the Bibby garage. we have two buses still there used on normal service work.