Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Party.

[nw1]

You are normally so calm and water off a duck's back. Everyone has their vulnerability eh

Yeah, sorry, I went a bit overboard. Not in the best of moods today for other reasons. Brexit winds me up, probably too much at times, I freely admit that.

Saying that though, I can't see us entering the customs union or single market in isolation. It would either have to be fully in or not at all. That debate is probably for another thread.

Maybe - I don't know, but I'm hoping otherwise.

But I'd just like to see the end of the "hostile" (IMO) relationship between the UK and EU. Some attempt at reconciliation. You won't get that with the current government but I am more hopeful with Starmer. But best leave it there.

I've seen politer and less nonsensical letters from toddlers. It reads like a collection of angry ramblings. It's mad.

Is she trying to be Nadine Dorries 2.0?

 

[ValentaFan1974]

Saying that though, I can't see us entering the customs union or single market in isolation. It would either have to be fully in or not at all. That debate is probably for another thread.

Thing is, “all in” would commit us to Schengen and adopting the Euro, all with non-rebatable contributions, so I don’t believe we’ll ever rejoin with those conditions.

 

[Gloster]

BTW any news on Anderson, has he been given the boot?

He appears to be still there, although he has a new boss: Richard Holden, the MP for North-West Durham, who got Durham police to reopen the ‘beergate’ investigation, even though they had decided there was nothing in it. I suspect Holden has been given the job because he seems to be willing to play dirty: he only has a slim majority so needs to do so to stay in Parliament and if he loses they can disown him.

Anderson attended a meeting of the New Conservatives this evening as they fulminated about Braverman’s sacking. They are a reactionary (my opinion, but I think reasonable) group who are particularly anti any form of immigration, gender equality and the like, etc. They believe that they appeal to the Red Wall.

 

[railfan99]

It’s almost as if Rishi is going to Starmer and Angie and saying here’s the number 10 keys…..

I am a foreigner, but in a nation that naturally (look at our history since 1788) has a similar parliamentary, legal and executive setup to England (albeit Australia doesn't have a House of Lords equivalent with peerages, but a Senate as a House of review).

Disunity is political death.

Ms B who was sacked spoke the truth, although perhaps she broke Cabinet solidarity.

Nonetheless, it shows sadly for the Conservative Party how it has a very weak, leftie PM in Sunak, and how it's odds-on to lose your next general election by a huge margin.

If the Conservatives acted as a true conservative party, and took lessons from previous similar governments in Australia in how to solve your immigration problems (albeit harder in UK because France and other nations aren't thousands of nautical miles away by sea), it might find more voters returning to the fold.

UK Labour will be a disaster for your country, sadly, just as the Trotsykist PM in Anthony Albanese (Australian Labor Party, but needing support of the Greens and leftie independents in the Senate) we have had since May 2022 is hopeless.

Dystopian!

 

[Gloster]

I am a foreigner, but in a nation that naturally (look at our history since 1788) has a similar parliamentary, legal and executive setup to England (albeit Australia doesn't have a House of Lords equivalent with peerages, but a Senate as a House of review).

Disunity is political death.

Ms B who was sacked spoke the truth, although perhaps she broke Cabinet solidarity.

Nonetheless, it shows sadly for the Conservative Party how it has a very weak, leftie PM in Sunak, and how it's odds-on to lose your next general election by a huge margin.

If the Conservatives acted as a true conservative party, and took lessons from previous similar governments in Australia in how to solve your immigration problems (albeit harder in UK because France and other nations aren't thousands of nautical miles away by sea), it might find more voters returning to the fold.

UK Labour will be a disaster for your country, sadly, just as the Trotsykist PM in Anthony Albanese (Australian Labor Party, but needing support of the Greens and leftie independents in the Senate) we have had since May 2022 is hopeless.

Dystopian!

You really should put a smiley at the end to show that this is satire.

 

[jon0844]

Thing is, “all in” would commit us to Schengen and adopting the Euro, all with non-rebatable contributions, so I don’t believe we’ll ever rejoin with those conditions.

I'd be all for the former TBH, but as for adopting the Euro - we'd easily be able to follow Sweden and others and just not meet our own conditions for entry and so simply kicking the move down the road, potentially forever.

You really should put a smiley at the end to show that this is satire.

I didn't need the smiley as I knew it was a joke when I read 'leftie PM in Sunak'.

 

[Busaholic]

Andrea Jenkyns has published her letter of no confidence in Sunk. Hopefully another full-blown Tory civil war on its way

I've seen politer and less nonsensical letters from toddlers. It reads like a collection of angry ramblings. It's mad.

I shouldn't be surprised, though. This is the same person who gave some anti-Boris protesters a particular hand gesture involving one finger.

Good to see Andrea has mastered that John Bull Printing Set at last - shame she couldn't make a straight line out of her name at the top of it.

 

[SuperNova]

I am a foreigner, but in a nation that naturally (look at our history since 1788) has a similar parliamentary, legal and executive setup to England (albeit Australia doesn't have a House of Lords equivalent with peerages, but a Senate as a House of review).

Disunity is political death.

Ms B who was sacked spoke the truth, although perhaps she broke Cabinet solidarity.

Nonetheless, it shows sadly for the Conservative Party how it has a very weak, leftie PM in Sunak, and how it's odds-on to lose your next general election by a huge margin.

If the Conservatives acted as a true conservative party, and took lessons from previous similar governments in Australia in how to solve your immigration problems (albeit harder in UK because France and other nations aren't thousands of nautical miles away by sea), it might find more voters returning to the fold.

UK Labour will be a disaster for your country, sadly, just as the Trotsykist PM in Anthony Albanese (Australian Labor Party, but needing support of the Greens and leftie independents in the Senate) we have had since May 2022 is hopeless.

Dystopian!

One of the most delusional posts I’ve ever read. Sunak a Leftie? Jesus. And by your reasoning the conservatives are doing so bad in the polls to Labour is because they’re not right wing enough? Then why are they training by 20 points to a centre-left party and leaking votes everywhere?

The reason the conservatives will lose is the economy that they’ve buggered up. The public services that always decline under their stewardships. And how the rich get richer and poor get poorer.

 

[railfan99]

The reason the conservatives will lose is the economy that they’ve buggered up.

I don't know how frequently or to where you travel, but many Western economies (and some others like Argentina!) are not doing overly well.

Nor is mainland communist China's, where allegedly 20 per cent of youths are unemployed, factory output is either down or middling at best and trade is suffering. A lot worse than England!

It isn't just the UK by any means.

FYI I have just been to UK and Europe again, as well as a pit stop in Asia to and from. You can read my trip report.

 

[jfollows]

Anderson attended a meeting of the New Conservatives this evening as they fulminated about Braverman’s sacking. They are a reactionary (my opinion, but I think reasonable) group who are particularly anti any form of immigration, gender equality and the like, etc. They believe that they appeal to the Red Wall.

12 of them in that meeting - Sunak is hardly going to be losing sleep over them. They only needed a large cupboard for their meeting.

 

[birchesgreen]

I don't know how frequently or to where you travel, but many Western economies (and some others like Argentina!) are not doing overly well.

Nor is mainland communist China's, where allegedly 20 per cent of youths are unemployed, factory output is either down or middling at best and trade is suffering. A lot worse than England!

It isn't just the UK by any means.

Yes i know but thats irrelevant. People don't give the governing party a pass on the economy being bad if its worse elsewhere.

It isn't just the economy being iffy thats caused the Tory unpopularity in any event.

 

[nw1]

He appears to be still there, although he has a new boss: Richard Holden, the MP for North-West Durham, who got Durham police to reopen the ‘beergate’ investigation, even though they had decided there was nothing in it. I suspect Holden has been given the job because he seems to be willing to play dirty: he only has a slim majority so needs to do so to stay in Parliament and if he loses they can disown him.

Anderson attended a meeting of the New Conservatives this evening as they fulminated about Braverman’s sacking. They are a reactionary (my opinion, but I think reasonable) group who are particularly anti any form of immigration, gender equality and the like, etc. They believe that they appeal to the Red Wall.

Ah ok, thanks. So the retention of someone even worse than Braverman is clear evidence Sunak has not been transformed into a cuddly social liberal overnight.

I've never heard of Holden but hopefully someone who will be given the boot next time.

Let's hope the "New Conservatives" merge with Farage's lot and split the Tory vote.

UK Labour will be a disaster for your country, sadly, just as the Trotsykist PM in Anthony Albanese (Australian Labor Party, but needing support of the Greens and leftie independents in the Senate) we have had since May 2022 is hopeless.

I can't really comment too much on Australian politics, except that I didn't like Scott Morrison and I was relieved when he got the boot. But this has got to be one of the most right-wing, if not the most right-wing post that I've seen on this forum to date!

 

[nlogax]

Nonetheless, it shows sadly for the Conservative Party how it has a very weak, leftie PM in Sunak

Suggest you spend a couple of hours going through Sunak's back catalogue. We can all agree he's weak as XXXX Gold but that's where your knowledge of him very obviously ends.

 

[AM9]

I don't know how frequently or to where you travel, but many Western economies (and some others like Argentina!) are not doing overly well.

Nor is mainland communist China's, where allegedly 20 per cent of youths are unemployed, factory output is either down or middling at best and trade is suffering. A lot worse than England!

It isn't just the UK by any means.

FYI I have just been to UK and Europe again, as well as a pit stop in Asia to and from. You can read my trip report.

I've never been to Australia, but your posts in this thread are the best adverts I've ever seen for staying away.

 

[DustyBin]

I've never heard of Holden but hopefully someone who will be given the boot next time.

I think his constituency is set to disappear at the next election. (That's not to say he'll disappear with it of course!).

 

[sor]

Thing is, “all in” would commit us to Schengen and adopting the Euro, all with non-rebatable contributions, so I don’t believe we’ll ever rejoin with those conditions.

I believe the Schengen agreement is still written into treaties so the lawyers would probably argue it still applies. In practice it'll depend on what Ireland wants to do, since both countries would either need to stay in the CTA or dissolve it and go into Schengen. (the IoM and Channel Islands won't matter here)

The Euro is more flexible and I could see that being negotiated away, perhaps in exchange for something else. The PR coup of the UK coming back would likely compel some flexibility. Besides, if the pound's value slumps a bit more it'll be at parity anyway!

I can't really comment too much on Australian politics, except that I didn't like Scott Morrison and I was relieved when he got the boot. But this has got to be one of the most right-wing, if not the most right-wing post that I've seen on this forum to date!

The Oz Libs and the UK Cons share a lot of advisers so there are a lot of similarities in policy and PR between the former Morrison govt and ours. For example, the "stop the boats" slogan was virtually lifted from down under

 

[Grimsby town]

RF99's posts aren't really surprising, given how isolated Australia is and how much of a redneck backwater it is outside of Melbourne and Sydney.

The Australian perspective doesn't translate well to the UK. We might be an Island nation but the UK shares a land border with another nation and is only 24 miles from France. That makes illegal immigration a lot more difficult to deal with. It also means that we likely have a far more accepting view of immigration in this country than Australia does. We are and always will be very integrated with other European nations. There was 600k French people living in London for example.

In most recent elections more people have voted left wing than right wing and very few people have voted hard or far right. It doesn't suggest that the country as a whole is demanding a vastly more strict immigration policy similar to Australia (assuming that is even workable).

 

[43096]

I've never been to Australia, but your posts in this thread are the best adverts I've ever seen for staying away.

RF99's posts aren't really surprising, given how isolated Australia is and how much of a redneck backwater it is outside of Melbourne and Sydney.

Good to see people making sweeping generalisations and writing off an entire nation on the basis of one post on here.

I have been to Australia and it’s fabulous. Highly recommended for a visit!

 

[nw1]

RF99's posts aren't really surprising, given how isolated Australia is and how much of a redneck backwater it is outside of Melbourne and Sydney.

I always got the impression Australia was a bit more liberal than the UK, perhaps a little more "continental" in outlook, more concerned about the environment, etc.

I have never been there, so this may be completely wrong and incorrect second-hand information and might be Sydney/Melbourne-centric, as you suggest.

The Sydney area rail network, according to TT-ONR-NRN's trip report, blows anything in the contemporary UK out of the water, it seems, for a combination of frequency, integration, and fares. Sounds a bit like a cheaper version of Network SouthEast. By contrast of course it quickly dries up once you're some way from the large cities.

There also appears to be a very open policy towards countryside access in the Sydney area, with many footpaths and trails in rural areas (again based on research, not experience), which once again is more European than North American in style.

 

[JamesT]

I always got the impression Australia was a bit more liberal than the UK, perhaps a little more "continental" in outlook, more concerned about the environment, etc.

I have never been there, so this may be completely wrong and incorrect second-hand information.

The Sydney area rail network, according to TT-ONR-NRN's trip report, blows anything in the UK out of the water, it seems, both in terms of frequency and fares. By contrast of course it quickly dries up once you're some way from the large cities.

I believe that mining is still a relatively large part of the Australian economy (certainly compared to us), which creates a tension between environmentally friendly policies and those supporting the economy.

 

[PsychoMouse]

Sadly it's slightly condescending posts like this that empower the alt-right.

They can be empowered if they wish, doesn't stop what I'm saying being correct.

But, yes, hopefully it was a joke.

 

[dangie]

... It also means that we likely have a far more accepting view of immigration in this country than Australia does.

Considering how historically modern Australian’s have treated native Australian’s that’s not a hard thing to do.

 

[al78]

Dumb and hilarious. 'Anti-woke' continues to be red meat for the Tory membership. They love it for reasons I can't quite fathom.

It has been adopted as a derogatory term to throw at all those dangerous lefties who oppose the hardcore right wing entrenched world view by calling out irrational and unreasonable discrimination, promoting inclusion, cooperation, collective responsibility and sustainability.

 

[Typhoon]

Just to give some background to Dame Andrea (a Johnson appointment, I believe)

Dame Andrea has an interesting record. In her brief stint as education minister under Boris Johnson, she flicked two fingers at protesters outside Downing Street. On another occasion she revealed a cute nickname for her son: “Brexit Clifford”. And — here’s our favourite bit of Jenkyns trivia — she once accidentally joined the Moonies, the Korean church accused of being a “cult”. Dame Andrea agreed to sing for the group, unaware of their identity, and received a certificate inducting her as a member.

As was stated many, many posts ago, many of the moderate Conservatives were booted out by Johnson, leaving us with the likes of Jenkyns, a sort of female Fabricant. Surely she must get a GB-News show soon?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...etter-no-confidence-rishi-sunak-b1120248.html

 

[Purple Train]

Just to give some background to Dame Andrea (a Johnson appointment, I believe)


As was stated many, many posts ago, many of the moderate Conservatives were booted out by Johnson, leaving us with the likes of Jenkyns, a sort of female Fabricant. Surely she must get a GB-News show soon?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...etter-no-confidence-rishi-sunak-b1120248.html

Most of the Tories left in parliament are fabricants...

 

[birchesgreen]

Apparently Braverman is preparing her devastating bombshell. I suspect it will include a lot of firey language and tough talk, though achieve nothing. Just like her ministerial career.

 

[island]

Thing is, “all in” would commit us to Schengen and adopting the Euro, all with non-rebatable contributions, so I don’t believe we’ll ever rejoin with those conditions.

Sweden is officially committed to adopting the euro but has avoided doing so successfully for over 29 years by intentionally failing to meet one of the joining criteria. The UK could do likewise.

 

[aavm]

Someone's thrown her toys out of the pram.

 

[takno]

Someone's thrown her toys out of the pram.

Quite a set a toys. I find the idea that the prime minister secretly agreed to a disturbing extremist manifesto to avoid a leadership contest he knew he'd lose rather incendiary tbh.

 

[Cowley]

Someone's thrown her toys out of the pram.

The story in full:

Suella Braverman accuses Rishi Sunak of betrayal in scathing resignation letter

The former home secretary tells Rishi Sunak his "plan is not working", as she accuses him of not keeping promises.

www.bbc.co.uk

In a scathing letter to the prime minister, Mrs Braverman told him "your plan is not working".
She said Mr Sunak had betrayed his pledge to do "whatever it takes" to stop small boats crossing the Channel.
Mrs Braverman, a leading figure on the right of the party, was sacked as home secretary on Monday, kickstarting a major cabinet reshuffle.
A No 10 spokesman thanked Mrs Braverman for her service, but added: "The prime minister was proud to appoint a strong, united team yesterday focused on delivering for the British people."

In her letter, the former home secretary told the prime minister he had "manifestly and repeatedly" failed to deliver on policy priorities.
"Either your distinctive style of government means you are incapable of doing so," she wrote.
"Or, as I must surely conclude now, you never had any intention of keeping your promises."
She added: "Someone needs to be honest: your plan is not working, we have endured record election defeats, your resets have failed and we are running out of time. You need to change course urgently."