The UK nationwide standard is seven (calendar) days self-certification, and NHS GPs are instructed not to give fit notes (which replaced sick notes) for seven days or fewer.
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RMT Industrial Action Update to members
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Go somewhere nice and relaxing to enjoy the day off. Buses are still running, aren't they? If you have chosen to withdraw your labour on a day, you have entitlement to do whatever you personally want to on the freedom this grants you. Neither employer or trades union should impinge upon your rights under such circumstance.
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jamiearmley
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I'm Northern.
I quite often get a phonecall on my personal number on my day off. Sometimes I answer if I'm free - if I'm busy, I don't. Realistically, if I don't want to work, or talk to them, whatever it is can wait till I next book on, and if I'm open to seeing what's on offer I can answer my phone.
It's not an issue. It never has been. I've never been treated any differently wether or not I answer my phone.
There are a few - perhaps more militant - colleagues who create alarmingly if they get a phone call on a rest day. Straight 'upstairs to management' when they next book on, carrying on at length. That's their call - they are entitled to their lived experience, after all.
I see this negotiation point as purely setting a level playing field - work can phone you once, you can answer, not answer, or call back later; and you can work or not work, and all of those are fine - but it removes the 'right' of people to create ongoing issues as a result of getting a phone call which they ignored in any case.
## my previous job, you were phoned 24 hours a day and ordered in to work. Kept at work to work double and triple shifts. Had holidays cancelled on the first day of the holiday. Threatened with dismissal if you didn't comply. My previous employer still does this. Perspective is everything.##
DMckduck97
Member
Makes you wonder why those militant colleagues willingly gave their personal phone number to their resource managers then doesn't it...
Yikes
Yes that does rather help with perspective, as you say! Blue light job by any chance?
Easily found by a Resources team on a personnel file, I would think.
12LDA28C
Established Member
Not really, as with most things it works both ways, as I'm sure you're aware. Plenty of times staff will have had a call that benefits them for example being asked to do a shorter turn, or a refused leave day has been granted at the last minute and so on.
Deafdoggie
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Good managers should really have an idea who it is worth calling and who it isn't. When I was bus driving I didn't do overtime (not through militancy, I just wanted the rest!) So they rarely called me & I knew if they did they were really desperate!
Equally, the good managers got better responses. One Sunday they needed 6 drivers to come in (a last minute RRB!) the supervisor who was unpopular called 30 drivers and got no one. The next shift supervisor came on, who was well-liked, made 6 calls, got 6 volunteers!
Equally, the good managers got better responses. One Sunday they needed 6 drivers to come in (a last minute RRB!) the supervisor who was unpopular called 30 drivers and got no one. The next shift supervisor came on, who was well-liked, made 6 calls, got 6 volunteers!
Statutory only is pretty terrible, generally offered for casual type jobs where workers have no bargaining power, and can be dispensed with easily. I certainly wouldn’t feel grateful for being paid from day one, as it really should be the minimum standard. There is a labour shortage in this country, and wages and Ts and Cs should therefore be improving not getting worse!
I suspect it has nothing to do with that. The existing attendance management policies are there to prevent people milking the system. If they aren’t being enforced properly that’s an entirely separate matter. In my experience (two TOCs) they are rigorously enforced.
Their manager, HR, and occupational health departments will most certainly know. Unless you’re one of the above, there’s no reason why you would. That doesn’t imply that they’re “milking the system”.
This tells us nothing more than that you’ve judged your colleague based on your personal disapproval of her drinking habits, and the fact she suffers from migraines.
That certainly suggests your own Ts and Cs are pretty awful, which is regrettable, but has no bearing on whether worsening of long standing sick pay arrangements should be considered acceptable by the RMT for the staff they represent.
What industry are you in, out of interest?
All depends what a “quality job” means. Certainly all the roles I’ve undertaken involve arrangements far in excess of the minimum arrangements. Entry level retail and seasonal “gig economy” type pay and conditions are not what anyone should aspire to, and need to be resisted on the railway! This is part of the reason unions are important.
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Jamesrob637
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Apparently this doesn't warrant a new thread, but will they keep Euston open for the morning on Good Friday if there are strikes on the 28th with Avanti or LNR?
Presumably they've decided to to use their freedom to picket and try and raise awareness of the dispute? As is their right in law of course.
If engineering work is planned I highly doubt it.
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
The only trains on Good Friday booked out of Euston appear to be Overground trains.
Since I'm pretty sure Euston is managed by NR I don't see why it wouldn't be open for those Overground trains.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Raise awareness...
...It seems like the name of the film my sons used to watch so very many years ago..."The never-ending story". I think only latter-day hermits in the population will not be aware of the implications of rail strikesThe Planner
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Its blocked all lines between Bourne End and Milton Keynes, where are the trains going and the need to keep it open?
And yet many people still like to go on protest marches or stage demonstrations about all sorts of problems, in their eyes, even though many people are well aware of the cause they're wishing to protest, demonstrate, raise awareness of! Gaza at the moment, environmental concerns, Brexit in the past, and on and on. Should they all also just get a bus somewhere for the day instead? Or, if they believe in their cause enough, perhaps they might think that making their feelings clear and public is a worthwhile investment of their time?Raise awareness...
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
When push comes to shove, the main reason why people go to work is to earn money to enjoy a standard of living.
If some people want to use their spare time indulging in political matters, that is something different, unless the job that they do is trades-union or political-party related, but that is naught to do with their actual employment.
I wonder it Putin was in charge over here, how he would react?
Indeed and protecting your terms and conditions and securing a decent wage settlement would seem to be quite an important part of ensuring you can enjoy a standard of living.
True enough but I'm unclear on what is political about a picket against proposed changes to terms and conditions and the attempt to secure a pay increase. I used protests and demonstrations as an example of people raising awareness of issues that are well known and yet people still do it. Surely no different to staff picketing an employer even though the issue they are striking about may already be well known.
Ah fair enough, I'm lucky enough to never have needed to access a sick note* so was probably going on slightly older info from the occasional time I've looked into this.
*Yes I know they're fit notes, I deal with them all the time in the day job, but every time I say "fit note" I'm met with a blank stare, "sick note" on the other hand gains instant recognition
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12LDA28C
Established Member
What on earth is the relevance of this comment? Fortunately we don't live in a dictatorship run by a lunatic whose opponents appear to die in suspicious circumstances on a regular basis.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
It has been said that the rail strikes called by the RMT some time ago were always accompanied by one of their now-(in)famous press releases that were worded hilariously and decried "basket-cases" and overseas capitalist involvement.
It was at that time that their regard for any third-party in those disputes, such as rail passengers, coined the phrase "collateral damage".
No.
But there won’t be an RMT strike affecting Euston that day. ASLEF might have other ideas though.
Yes RMT press releases are often cringe worthy. They've done better of late but the memory of some of the silly language used in the past lives long in the memory. I'm unclear as to the relevance in terms of staff going on a picket however.
Well yes, unfortunately due the nature of the business there will be "collateral damage" when railway staff go on strike. I imagine perhaps a tiny majority of strikers might even divine some enjoyment from that. Most however I suspect would rather be in work earning their salary and doing their job rather htan losing a days pay, standing on a picket line (or just sitting at home not getting paid) and inconveniencing thousands of people.
Again, I'm unclear as to what the issue is with people going on a picket?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Can you think of occasions where picketing has actually brought about the resolution of an industrial dispute in recent times?
DMckduck97
Member
Yeah of course there is plenty of push and pull and the occasional rub of the green, but In that case if these people are as militant as put across I would find they wouldn't be on the resource managers list at all.
Don't we all?
In some lines of work it is called a teacher training day.
father_jack
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You are Kay Burley in disguise and I claim my £5.
Sorry I can't quote the link but it's a video of Kay Burley being put to the sword by Mick Lynch explaining how a picket works.
DCO didn't get very far on Northern in 2018 did it? The RMT settled their dispute last year as well of course following considerable amount of strike action.
But so what? Should you only picket when victory is assured? Surely the opposite is true? If you think the issue is up in the air and could go either way it's all more the reason to picket and draw attention to the issue and show that there is a solid movement backing the action?
Whilst I am not a teacher I have attended a few teacher training days in another capacity. My observation is that a lot of work gets done so I'm not entirely sure that's a fair swipe to take.
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Sorry....not a solitary female gene habits this particular body. Have you any reason to suppose that I have a female side to my personality...
Incidentally, whilst you cannot quote the link you would like, I too cannot now find the link to that RMT group photograph from a couple of years ago, most with raised clenched fists at one of their meetings and what looked like a meeting of "Gangsters Anonymous".
Whose attention should be drawn to the said issue who would be able to ensure resolution, even more so now when a number of franchises are now with "Those of the Last Resort" who rely on the current Government for finance?
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Well for an official picket the law, as I'm sure you're aware, is quite restrictive as to what they can and cannot do and where and when they can do it. I note that RMT have also undertaken other protests at various times outside of official strike action in London and other places. It is also, of course, difficult for all RMT members to attend those sorts of events so a picket at their place of employment remains a good way of advocating for their position.
However why don't you cut to the chase of what you're driving at rather than what appears to be an attempt at using the Socratic method to reach a conclusion you're attempting to draw?
I can think of instances when picketing has legitimately and peacefully persuaded members of another union in the same grades going to work on an RMT strike day , ultimately the aim of picketing is to persuade people from going into work . The effectiveness of which could then have some bearing on the employers appetite to negotiate . Picketing alone isnt aimed at resolving any dispute , ultimately negotiations are what resolve disputes .
Of course it is up to members should they wish to attend/organise a picket line at their place of work , many don't wish to . Some do its always down to personal choice nobody is censured by either union or employer for their choice in this matter in my experience .
Eventually the result was the majority of staff at the work location joined the RMT , and now even outside of a dispute the fact that the majority are in one union makes challenging management and resolving long standing issues a lot easier .
Either way this seems way off topic given that the prospect of picket lines is months away anyway , the RMT are not in dispute yet with the train operating companies , and there is still an avoidance of dispute process to be exhausted before such can happen .
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He'd probably have the trade union leaders murdered. What's your point?
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