RMT - Is it worth joining?

[richw]

I’d definitely recommend joining a union. They cover your backside if something goes wrong. An accident etc. They’ll accompany to disciplinary if needed and make sure that’s done correctly and make sure nothing is done that will make it worse for you.
Like an insurance hope you’ll never need it but good to have.

 

[bussnapperwm]

As others posted, yes you should join a union. Always useful, especially if you get called in for tea & biscuits by the management.
I'm a member of a union in my industry (local government) and they have proved their weight in gold!

 

[NoOnesFool]

Thank you for the balanced replies, it sounds as though they do actually offer support if things go wrong - which contrasts what I've been told in person. I was on Google the other day and saw that they have been supporting a dismissed catering contractor up in Manchester, so it's good to see that they do actually action their words.

 

[DarloRich]

You always have a choice.

My grade is 99% RMT - as am I - but we also have a few TSSA ‘protesters’ and some union refuseniks.

but there is no point joining TSSA if they are not recognised for your grade. However the RMT/TSSA areas of responsibility overlap so much there is a bit of wiggle room!

 

[NoOnesFool]

but there is no point joining TSSA if they are not recognised for your grade. However the RMT/TSSA areas of responsibility overlap so much there is a bit of wiggle room!

The TSSA don't list my employer on their list of recognised employers, it's only for TOC employed catering hosts.

 

[DarloRich]

The TSSA don't list my employer on their list of recognised employers, it's only for TOC employed catering hosts.

agreed - was referring to the internal NR demarcation battle between RMT & TSSA that may be as old as time itself!

 

[whhistle]

If you’re in the union they pay your legal fees. If they don’t, they come out of your own pocket.

Not quite correct.
My home insurance comes with legal protection... for anything.
Some packaged bank accounts come with it too.

I often find the notion of unions old fashioned.
Someone a while ago said the younger generation generally don't join. Those that did may show a little naivety and join because they've been told to. Then you find some railway workers think it's life or death if you don't join.

My experience with a local Union rep was not a good one.
My experience with another local Union rep was also not a good one.
Both were in the camp of "if you're not in the Union, you're not worth talking to as a fellow employee".

That put me off joining.
For the £140 or whatever it is, it's an expensive diary.

The lie of "the Union get's you a pay rise" is... well, a lie.

Most employers will give employees a pay rise once a year. If not, moral (and service to customers) will disappear.

I also find some of the Union is all about money. They want a pay rise, full stop. I'd accept the slightly lower pay rise the company offers, but add in a wealth of other benifits instead. From the company side, they get to save cash. From the employees side, they then have better working conditions.

BUT: I see the merit in the Union for those that want it.
I just wish those that are in it don't look down on those that are not. It's treated like an old fashioned working mans club from the 70s. Ugh!

 

[ComUtoR]

Not quite correct.
My home insurance comes with legal protection... for anything.
Some packaged bank accounts come with it too.

I'd agree that with the small caveat that a) you might want to check the small print on insurance policies as 'legal protection' is vague and generic. I would certainly advise anyone with any insurances to check specifically what is covered and what is not. B) Union legal protection generally comes with unlimited legal advice over the phone and your solicitor will be very familiar with employment law and rail specific technicalities.

I often find the notion of unions old fashioned.

In some respects so do I but then I never really understood unionized employment until I joined the railway. Before I was a Driver, I was something else. I was not in unionized employment and I really can see a difference. Unions have been around for years and I find it a little disingenuous about them being antiquated because you still have various sectors with a strong Union presence. Teachers, NHS, Emergency services, to name a few. They are still protecting their industries and protecting how employees are being treated. I wish they weren't required but sadly they still are.

The lie of "the Union get's you a pay rise" is... well, a lie.

Most employers will give employees a pay rise once a year. If not, moral (and service to customers) will disappear.

Which is equally a lie and a very deliberate one. It's not true that most employees give you a pay rise each year. Not only that you find that where there is unionized employment the pay rises are higher. They also tend to be a little fairer because of the collective nature of their terms and conditions. I remember getting a £56pa pay rise. I guarantee that would not happen with a Union. It would get laughed off the table. You also need to remember that a lot of pay rises given are typically cost of living rises. Keeping you in line with inflation barely reflects the reality of life. A college of mine has had his rent go up by £300 per month. No pay rise will cover that spike in expense. My pay rise this year will not cover the increase I just got through the post from my energy provider. Neither will it cover the increase in the Council tax, water rates, broadband, mobile etc etc

I also find some of the Union is all about money. They want a pay rise, full stop. I'd accept the slightly lower pay rise the company offers, but add in a wealth of other benifits instead. From the company side, they get to save cash. From the employees side, they then have better working conditions.

So taking this with your comment above. You mostly find that people who are getting a pay rise/cost of living rise each year only tend to get a % wage/salary rise and not changes to their terms. However, what the Union is good at is keeping track of changes to terms and condition changes and ensuring working conditions are improved. It's also not just about money. The Union is working together with the employer for many other things. ASLEF work with the RSSB on changes to the Rulebook and with the TOC to ensure rosters are well balanced, sickness is reduced, procedures are followed, health and safety is maintained etc etc.

 

[4F89]

My pay rise last year was only the minimum wage increase. If we were unionised at work (factory) then we would all down tools till we got a decent one, but because nobody wants to join, you get crapped on my management. I see merits of both though, and for a relatively small sum, unions seem to pay their way, even if I don't always agree with their politics.

 

[TheBadger]

Don't forget that you should be able to claim tax relief on your union fees (as well as for the cost of you laundering your uniform) so you can actually save a couple of quid on the quoted subscription cost.

EDIT: I've been corrected and you can't claim on union subs (although in my current, non railway job, I can). You can still claim for the cost of laundering your uniform. Sorry for the false information.

 

[ainsworth74]

Don't forget that you should be able to claim tax relief on your union fees (as well as for the cost of you laundering your uniform) so you can actually save a couple of quid on the quoted subscription cost.

Presumably that would involve signing up for self-assessment tax returns which whilst not the biggest faff in the world is an added complication?

 

[TheBadger]

Not at all. It's just one form. It's a one off and should see your tax code adjusted accordingly for future years.

From what I can gather you only need to register for self assessment if you're looking to claim on expenses over £2500.

Either way you can apply online in a few minutes.

https://www.gov.uk/tax-relief-for-employees/uniforms-work-clothing-and-tools

 

[ainsworth74]

Not at all. It's just one form. It's a one off and should see your tax code adjusted accordingly for future years.

Interesting, thanks

 

[TheBadger]

Interesting, thanks

No worries. I've just edited the post to add a bit more information. Also should mention you can claim back for previous years up to about 5 years.

 

[tiptoptaff]

My pay rise this year will not cover the increase I just got through the post from my energy provider.c

O/T - Make sure you do a comparison and switch - BRAND LOYALTY COSTS MONEY!! See Martin Lewis' Money Saving Expert site....

 

[richw]

Thank you for the balanced replies, it sounds as though they do actually offer support if things go wrong - which contrasts what I've been told in person. I was on Google the other day and saw that they have been supporting a dismissed catering contractor up in Manchester, so it's good to see that they do actually action their words.

Some unions aren’t as good as others. The trade union for my previous work were as useful as a chocolate tea pot in disputes and negotiation. I remained a member though as they’d negotiated excellent members discounts at various national companies and chains.

 

[Set_DRA]

I’m a member of ASLEF (for obvious reasons!) but my two pence is..


YES...join RMT!

 

[dvdgrgsmt]

Hey guys, I'm still in training and planning to join a union after my commercial course is completed. I still won't be productive at that point as I'll need to do my route learning. Basically my question is if I join while still on my training wage do I then need to contact them and let them know when my wage goes up to productive or will they adjust my deduction each month automatically?

 

[Intermodal]

Hey guys, I'm still in training and planning to join a union after my commercial course is completed. I still won't be productive at that point as I'll need to do my route learning. Basically my question is if I join while still on my training wage do I then need to contact them and let them know when my wage goes up to productive or will they adjust my deduction each month automatically?

Unless you tell them when your wage goes up they won't know. It's not magic!

 

[FGW_DID]

Don't forget that you should be able to claim tax relief on your union fees (as well as for the cost of you laundering your uniform) so you can actually save a couple of quid on the quoted subscription cost.

How do you go about claiming tax relief on your union fees? I did the uniform laundering claim when I first started on the railway but never seen anything about union fees.

Hey guys, I'm still in training and planning to join a union after my commercial course is completed. I still won't be productive at that point as I'll need to do my route learning. Basically my question is if I join while still on my training wage do I then need to contact them and let them know when my wage goes up to productive or will they adjust my deduction each month automatically?

Surely it’s just a flat rate monthly payment for union fees, regardless of salary?

 

[Intermodal]

How do you go about claiming tax relief on your union fees? I did the uniform laundering claim when I first started on the railway but never seen anything about union fees.



Surely it’s just a flat rate monthly payment for union fees, regardless of salary?

The RMT has a below 20k fee and an above. The below 20k fee is half of the upper rate.

 

[Amanda]

A long time ago I used to be a union rep for what was then T&GWU when I worked in the airline industry. I would always advocate joining one (despite not being in one now ) as I have seen the value of them. My own mum was dismissed from her job, I convinced her to join the union anyway and they came and helped her - they identified seriously failings in the disciplinary process she'd been through (ironically at an employment law firm ) and while she did not under any circumstances want to go back to work, the union rep managed things so that it was recorded that she left under her own steam rather than having been sacked.

However it does vary from one workplace to the other and while we in our location had a very productive relationship with management, I was horrified when I went to a meeting in London of the whole company's relevant management & union reps meeting and witnessed people almost getting into fist fights, which I cannot ever condone (my fellow reps told me they had actually witnessed violence at previous meetings).

I'm not in one now because I'm an administrator not in a particular industry that usually has one. Basically because we don't have reps where I work but had someone approached me with a form I reckon I'd have signed up. I do know I could just sign up online but I just haven't, guess I'm just lazy!

So in my opinion, do it. When you need them, they will be there.

 

[TheBadger]

How do you go about claiming tax relief on your union fees? I did the uniform laundering claim when I first started on the railway but never seen anything about union fees.

Use the online tool here

https://www.gov.uk/tax-relief-for-employees/uniforms-work-clothing-and-tools

You can claim against your uniform as well as professional fees, i.e. union subs.

EDIT: You can claim for uniform but currently ALSEF, RMT, TSSA aren't on the approved list of professional bodies for claiming tax relief. Sorry for the mix-up.

 

[FGW_DID]

Use the online tool here

https://www.gov.uk/tax-relief-for-employees/uniforms-work-clothing-and-tools

You can claim against your uniform as well as professional fees, i.e. union subs.

I already get the tax relief for uniform but I don’t see any trade unions listed in the acceptable professional bodies listed under professional fees!

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ssional-organisations-and-learned-societies#s

 

[TheBadger]

Consider me corrected. Really sorry about that. My current role, outside the railway, allows me to claim on my union fees. I wasn't aware the railway unions weren't included in the approved list.

I'll edit my other posts to be clear.

 

[choochoochoo]

Consider me corrected. Really sorry about that. My current role, outside the railway, allows me to claim on my union fees. I wasn't aware the railway unions weren't included in the approved list.

I'll edit my other posts to be clear.

Does this not mean ASLEF subs can be claimed back ?

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/paye-manual/paye10070

Can't see RMT on there though

 

[FGW_DID]

Perhaps it may be the case for some professions, you have to be a member of these professional bodies hence why you can claim tax relief whereas Union membership is optional?

 

[CC 72100]

Does this not mean ASLEF subs can be claimed back ?

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/paye-manual/paye10070

Can't see RMT on there though

ASLEF and TSSA are on there, but it looks flippin' confusing!

 

[TheBadger]

I don't know about that manual but I can't see them listed here

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/professional-bodies-approved-for-tax-relief-list-3/approved-professional-organisations-and-learned-societies

So I'm assuming that means you can't claim for membership of any organisation not on that list.

 

[CC 72100]

I don't know about that manual but I can't see them listed here

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/professional-bodies-approved-for-tax-relief-list-3/approved-professional-organisations-and-learned-societies

So I'm assuming that means you can't claim for membership of any organisation not on that list.

Ah I see what you mean - not on that list but in the manual? Interesting...