RMT strike action

[CFRAIL]

The RMT Union have announced strike action to take place on 13th May, details can be found here;

Train strikes: New dates for industrial action announced - including on FA Cup final date

Train operating companies are set to be hit with further strike action next month after the unions formally rejected pay offers.

news.sky.com

 

[DanNCL]

Multiple reports that members weren’t consulted on this strike announcement and the first many heard of it was through social media.

13th May is the day of the Eurovision final, which Liverpool is hosting on behalf of Ukraine. An event with global significance and one that could cause a diplomatic fallout if it’s disrupted.

The RMT will have cost themselves a lot of support over this. A strike called without membership consultation, not communicated to members before it went to press, and deliberately timed to impact an event of international significance. I wouldn’t blame people for choosing to cross picket lines.

 

[zwk500]

Multiple reports that members weren’t consulted on this strike announcement and the first many heard of it was through social media.

13th May is the day of the Eurovision final, which Liverpool is hosting on behalf of Ukraine. An event with global significance and one that could cause a diplomatic fallout if it’s disrupted.

The RMT will have cost themselves a lot of support over this. A strike called without membership consultation, not communicated to members before it went to press, and deliberately timed to impact an event of international significance. I wouldn’t blame people for choosing to cross picket lines.

If they don't have the mandate for it, you can bet your bottom dollar the government will try and get a legal ruling to stop it.

If their existing mandate still covers the strikes (which I imagine it does) then we shall have to see what the membership feel about this. I suspect it won't be pretty whatever happens.

 

[DanNCL]

If they don't have the mandate for it, you can bet your bottom dollar the government will try and get a legal ruling to stop it.

If their existing mandate still covers the strikes (which I imagine it does) then we shall have to see what the membership feel about this. I suspect it won't be pretty whatever happens.

Think the mandate still covers that period but it must be due to expire soon.

The government seem to have gotten away with cutting the nurses strike short on such a technicality so wouldn’t put it past them to try the same here if it transpired the mandate had expired.

Reports I’ve seen on social media is that members weren’t consulted about this strike, nor informed by the RMT themselves before it was already being reported by the press. It’s a small sample but the sample I’ve seen aren’t happy.

 

[CFRAIL]

Multiple reports that members weren’t consulted on this strike announcement and the first many heard of it was through social media.

13th May is the day of the Eurovision final, which Liverpool is hosting on behalf of Ukraine. An event with global significance and one that could cause a diplomatic fallout if it’s disrupted.

The RMT will have cost themselves a lot of support over this. A strike called without membership consultation, not communicated to members before it went to press, and deliberately timed to impact an event of international significance. I wouldn’t blame people for choosing to cross picket lines.

Not as disrupted as if it were held in Ukraine though...

As for crossing picket lines? Members may as well, they'd still be paid but the service wouldn't run because it'll be cancelled in advance. Members lose no pay but still cause disruption, sounds like a win win.

 

[STINT47]

Have members had a chance to vote on the latest pay offer? If not do we know if support for further strikes is actually present on the ground?

 

[zwk500]

Have members had a chance to vote on the latest pay offer? If not do we know if support for further strikes is actually present on the ground?

I guess we're about to find out how strong the members' support for strikes is.

 

[DanNCL]

Not as disrupted as if it were held in Ukraine though...

As for crossing picket lines? Members may as well, they'd still be paid but the service wouldn't run because it'll be cancelled in advance. Members lose no pay but still cause disruption, sounds like a win win.

So because the arena isn’t bombed they should be grateful? That’s similar to the argument the government are using against the RMT that the RMT are moaning about. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Control will run whatever they can to shift crowds for such a major event. If they have more staff in than expected and can coordinate them they can reinstate pre-cancelled services at the last minute.

 

[scrapy]

Mandate runs out 23.59 on 15th (6 months from 16th November 2022). They may of course have a new mandate beyond then, if so I'd expect more dates to be called.

 

[newtownmgr]

Apparently the RDG informed the RMT that they would only implement the 5% phase one rise if the RMT cancelled all action relating to the dispute. RDG deliberately scuppering any chance of a deal, no doubt under orders from the DfT/Government. RMT left with no option in my opinion.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Is there a "They should grow up and accept what is given" thread? Many haven't had much of a pay rise in years.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

How likely are they to announce another strike in the w/c 22nd May? Normally they don't announce any more until previous ones are out of the way but I just want to be certain before I change my plans.

 

[DanNCL]

Apparently the RDG informed the RMT that they would only implement the 5% phase one rise if the RMT cancelled all action relating to the dispute. RDG deliberately scuppering any chance of a deal, no doubt under orders from the DfT/Government. RMT left with no option in my opinion.

I don’t think that’s unreasonable. The 5% rise is in the agreement, implementing the agreement should end the dispute entirely.

My own view, both the Government and the RMT are behaving like toddlers.

 

[matthewjohnson]

How likely are they to announce another strike in the w/c 22nd May? Normally they don't announce any more until previous ones are out of the way but I just want to be certain before I change my plans.

I reckon they'll announce more if (when) the new mandate comes through on 4th May, probably for two weeks after that and maybe the late may bank holiday as well

 

[northwichcat]

Think the mandate still covers that period but it must be due to expire soon.

The government seem to have gotten away with cutting the nurses strike short on such a technicality so wouldn’t put it past them to try the same here if it transpired the mandate had expired.

Reports I’ve seen on social media is that members weren’t consulted about this strike, nor informed by the RMT themselves before it was already being reported by the press. It’s a small sample but the sample I’ve seen aren’t happy.

I'm sure a court blocked RMT action once before. I think it was something to do with voting for strike action based on what the next franchise holder might do, when the law states you can only strike against your current employer.

 

[Dougal2345]

13th May is the day of the Eurovision final, which Liverpool is hosting on behalf of Ukraine. An event with global significance and one that could cause a diplomatic fallout if it’s disrupted.

In terms of attendance, Eurovision is fairly small - 6,000 spectators at each show, the disruption will be to people going home after the Thursday semi, and the two shows on Saturday.

So those who can't go will be re-selling their tickets, and there will be plenty of locals who will snap them up.

(I have a ticket for the Saturday afternoon show, which I'll now have to sell back, I had pre-booked a hotel for three nights in Wigan (non-refundable), and Advance rail tickets from the south coast to Wigan, out on the Friday which will get refunded, and back on the Monday which won't. So not the happiest of days for me!)

 

[michael74]

Accept the 5% drop the action enter into separate negotiations with the TOCs and if they don't go well then enter into a new TOC level dispute.... Or am I missing something?

 

[gazzaa2]

Are Merseyrail okay for 12th/13th? RMT strikes previously affected them due to signallers etc (the ASLEF strikes didn't), but if it's just a TOC dispute.

ASLEF strikes will hurt on the 12th because many will go the day before the final travelling cross country. Merseyrail will be particularly needed on the day itself.

 

[DanNCL]

In terms of attendance, Eurovision is fairly small - 6,000 spectators at each show, the disruption will be to people going home after the Thursday semi, and the two shows on Saturday.

So those who can't go will be re-selling their tickets, and there will be plenty of locals who will snap them up.

(I have a ticket for the Saturday afternoon show, which I'll now have to sell back, I had pre-booked a hotel for three nights in Wigan (non-refundable), and Advance rail tickets from the south coast to Wigan, out on the Friday which will get refunded, and back on the Monday which won't. So not the happiest of days for me!)

6,000 in the arena but the total number in Liverpool related to the event will be significantly higher.
Some of the delegations are also using rail transport, if transport of national delegations is disrupted at all then there’s a very real risk of a diplomatic fallout between the UK and other countries, especially Ukraine as we’re hosting it for them.

 

[CFRAIL]

Is there a "They should grow up and accept what is given" thread? Many haven't had much of a pay rise in years.

Sounds like they may need a union...

 

[scrapy]

I'm sure a court blocked RMT action once before. I think it was something to do with voting for strike action based on what the next franchise holder might do, when the law states you can only strike against your current employer.

That was in 2015. When the Northern franchise prospectus was released and included DCO as a requirement and Serco Abellio blocked action. Action was then taken (legally) once Arriva had the franchise. Not really relevant to the current dispute though.

 

[ModernRailways]

Think the mandate still covers that period but it must be due to expire soon.

The government seem to have gotten away with cutting the nurses strike short on such a technicality so wouldn’t put it past them to try the same here if it transpired the mandate had expired.

Reports I’ve seen on social media is that members weren’t consulted about this strike, nor informed by the RMT themselves before it was already being reported by the press. It’s a small sample but the sample I’ve seen aren’t happy.

Yes, the mandate still covers this action, I believe the current mandate ends on the 15th or 16th May.

It was published to the RMT website and went to press at the same time, sending a mass email/text to all RMT TOC members isn't instant hence some people finding out through a push notification as breaking news first.

It's only right that this is the decision made, if the RDG (Govt) are saying vote yes to the no strings 5% but then the stage 2 T&Cs aren't negotiable and you cannot take industrial action over the stage 2 portion then this is exactly the same as the previous 'deal'

6,000 in the arena but the total number in Liverpool related to the event will be significantly higher.
Some of the delegations are also using rail transport, it transport of national delegations is disrupted at all then there’s a very real risk of a diplomatic fallout between the UK and other countries, especially Ukraine as we’re hosting it for them.

Maybe the RDG needs to stop messing around with peoples lives. You can't offer a no strings 5% which people talk about accepting and then fighting the stage 2 portion only for the stage 1 to actually have strings attached.

I'm sure a court blocked RMT action once before. I think it was something to do with voting for strike action based on what the next franchise holder might do, when the law states you can only strike against your current employer.

Not relevant.

I don’t think that’s unreasonable. The 5% rise is in the agreement, implementing the agreement should end the dispute entirely.

My own view, both the Government and the RMT are behaving like toddlers.

Yes it is unreasonable.

 

[gazzaa2]

Why is Eurovision fair game (context of Ukraine as well etc) but the coronation isn't?

 

[InkyScrolls]

As a TOC and RMT member I can confirm this was not communicated beforehand, nor was the previous offer put to the members.

 

[jamesst]

Are Merseyrail okay for 12th/13th? RMT strikes previously affected them due to signallers etc (the ASLEF strikes didn't), but if it's just a TOC dispute.

ASLEF strikes will hurt on the 12th because many will go the day before the final travelling cross country. Merseyrail will be particularly needed on the day itself.

Merseyrail aren't affected and will be operating on all strike days as normal (subject to timetable changes for the Eurovision events)

 

[DanNCL]

It's only right that this is the decision made, if the RDG (Govt) are saying vote yes to the no strings 5% but then the stage 2 T&Cs aren't negotiable and you cannot take industrial action over the stage 2 portion then this is exactly the same as the previous 'deal'

Maybe the RDG needs to stop messing around with peoples lives. You can't offer a no strings 5% which people talk about accepting and then fighting the stage 2 portion only for the stage 1 to actually have strings attached.

That isn't what's been reported though, what's been reported is that action related to the pay dispute has to stop, which as the pay dispute would have been resolved that's reasonable. T&Cs are/should be a seperate dispute.

Both RDG and RMT need to stop messing around with peoples lives, and both need to stop behaving like toddlers.

It's obviously specifically targeted in the hope of government backing down.

Which won't happen. They'd rather Ukraine and a possibly a few other countries had a fit. Vladimir Putin must be loving this...

Why is Eurovision fair game (context of Ukraine as well etc) but the coronation isn't?

Because the RMT have, wrongly, assumed that the Coronation is the only one of the two events with the potential to cause a fallout if disrupted.

Yes it is unreasonable.

Taking action in a resolved dispute is not, under any circumstances, justifiable.

Quite why RDG felt the need to state that resolving the dispute needs to end action I don't know as it's stating the obvious and only provokes things, but the RMT don't need to throw a tantrum over it either.

 

[gazzaa2]

Merseyrail aren't affected and will be operating on all strike days as normal (subject to timetable changes for the Eurovision events)

Shame that Merseyrail map isn't a bit longer (Kirkby-Wigan, Hunts Cross-Warrington, Chester-Wrexham).

 

[jamesst]

Shame that Merseyrail map isn't a bit longer (Kirkby-Wigan, Hunts Cross-Warrington, Chester-Wrexham).

Small consolation but Chester-Wrexham should be fine, I don't think tfw are out are they?

 

[ModernRailways]

That isn't what's been reported though, what's been reported is that action related to the pay dispute has to stop, which as the pay dispute would have been resolved that's reasonable. T&Cs are/should be a seperate dispute.

Both RDG and RMT need to stop messing around with peoples lives, and both need to stop behaving like toddlers.

You clearly haven't a clue. The pay dispute is the T&Cs dispute. In order to resolve the pay, RDG (Govt) want to push through the T&Cs changes. They aren't separate disputes and the only people here acting like toddlers are RDG and the Govt. RMT aren't messing with peoples lives by trying to secure a (under inflation) pay rise for its members, a not insignificant chunk of which are on wages just above the national living wage.

Taking action in a resolved dispute is not, under any circumstances, justifiable.

Quite why RDG felt the need to state that resolving the dispute needs to end action I don't know as it's stating the obvious and only provokes things, but the RMT don't need to throw a tantrum over it either.

What other method does RMT have? This deal would have been put to members and likely voted for (stage 1 at least) had further action been possible and on the table for stage 2 and the t&c changes. There are significant changes to guards t&cs, for example, between TOCs (and in some cases within the same toc).

Again, you really have no idea and are guessing.

 

[gazzaa2]

Small consolation but Chester-Wrexham should be fine, I don't think tfw are out are they?

That's true actually, the TFW routes into Chester will be packed, they really need to max out their carriages.

They should have give it to Glasgow afterall (I assume Scot Rail will be ok). Too late to change host now i'd have thought.