RMT strike referendum passed

[KM1991]

If this is such a huge triumph for the RMT, why didn't they recommend such an incredible offer to their members?

Good luck getting the T&C changes next year by offering 4% lol.

 

[Railwayowl80]

I can’t remember what interview it was with mick lynch but he felt that Is was still an offer well below inflation and should of been more so wasn’t putting rmt to recommend but was happy for the members to decide because of the removal of key parts in the offer ie changes to T&C

 

[infobleep]

It's pretty much the same offer as in April 2023, not June 2022.

So why could it not be accept last April or was the small bit that wasn't the same, the sticking point?

 

[Robcuk]

If this is such a huge triumph for the RMT, why didn't they recommend such an incredible offer to their members?

Who says its huge triumph other than you? I'm pretty sure they didn't recommend it but the members accepted it

 

[Energy]

Who says its huge triumph other than you? I'm pretty sure they didn't recommend it but the members accepted it

The issue wasn't pay but the terms and conditions, which got removed.

If we are talking membership, I believe ASLEF's published statistic is that 96% of all drivers are ASLEF members.

Quote from the ASLEF website: "ASLEF – the train drivers’ trade union which represents 96% of the train drivers in England, Scotland, and Wales"

Thank you!

 

[Ashfordian6]

How much has the average member lost in strike pay in this dispute?

Based on number of days worked they have probably gained as overtime would have covered the days lost to the dispute, but the hours worked would have been paid at a higher rate.

It's why these disputes are only doomed to fail for the Government as the days lost can be more made up for with OT

 

[Bluejays]

Good news!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Backdated pay has never been split before. Really can’t see that being the case.

Normally PayRoll have more time to work on the calculations ( i.e. the agreement is made and then it is agreed that it will be paid "on the first available" date, which may be 2 months away - not 1 week away!) and less of a period of time to go back and calculate.

Most calculations like this have to be done manually.

An adjustment to base salary is relatively easy.

Going back and working out everyone's individual adjustments due to overtime, Sunday, rest day working etc may be quite an onerous task as they will all be paid at different rates of pay.

My pay date is next Friday 8th December. We get our payslip on the Wednesday. Bank processing will probably be done on Thursday. So they have about 4 working days maximum to work it all out.

 

[Wolfie]

Yes, because people do not realise that drivers are a separate union from most other railway staff. A number of times during RMT action I got "hurr greedy drivers" (when drivers were booking on and ready to work, as ASLEF were not taking action those particular days) and I had to explain and correct them. People's faces when they realise that there's at least three unions involved in the railways (ASLEF, RMT, TSSA - am I missing anyone?) is a something to behold.

Unite and my own TU Prospect represents some working on Crossrail.

 

[father_jack]

Normally PayRoll have more time to work on the calculations ( i.e. the agreement is made and then it is agreed that it will be paid "on the first available" date, which may be 2 months away - not 1 week away!) and less of a period of time to go back and calculate.

Most calculations like this have to be done manually.

An adjustment to base salary is relatively easy.

Going back and working out everyone's individual adjustments due to overtime, Sunday, rest day working etc may be quite an onerous task as they will all be paid at different rates of pay.

My pay date is next Friday 8th December. We get our payslip on the Wednesday. Bank processing will probably be done on Thursday. So they have about 4 working days maximum to work it all out.

A MD from a TOC put in their weekly propaganda bulletin the following when the initial announcement of the referendum was made-

An MD said:

"If the proposal is accepted, the pay rises for 2022 will be paid in December and the complex calculations for the applicable backpay would be paid as soon as practically possible."

It was later anecdotally reported that that MD was displeased at the RDG agreeing what was nigh impossible.

I think those brothers and sisters whooping about getting "a Christmas bonus" may be whooping in vain.........

 

[WindsorJoe]

Yes for those asking how much a average member has lost for most my colleagues especially those like myself who don’t do too much overtime I’ve actually gained more money as for every strike day lost I did a rest day work which pays a lot more , plus fair few strike days where at weekends so I’ve ended up with more money with rest day work in the week more weekends off especially Saturdays and a 5% pay increase backdated . There’s always plenty of overtime at my workplace especially since Covid with every new job role having to go through DFT first! Most will have ended up better off certainly not worse off.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes for those asking how much a average member has lost for most my colleagues especially those like myself who don’t do too much overtime I’ve actually gained more money as for every strike day lost I did a rest day work which pays a lot more , plus fair few strike days where at weekends so I’ve ended up with more money with rest day work in the week more weekends off especially Saturdays and a 5% pay increase backdated . There’s always plenty of overtime at my workplace especially since Covid with every new job role having to go through DFT first! Most will have ended up better off certainly not worse off.

How come the ballot passed just before the most financially stressful time of year then, if people are better off with RDW and strikes?

 

[Robcuk]

Normally PayRoll have more time to work on the calculations ( i.e. the agreement is made and then it is agreed that it will be paid "on the first available" date, which may be 2 months away - not 1 week away!) and less of a period of time to go back and calculate.

Most calculations like this have to be done manually.

An adjustment to base salary is relatively easy.

Going back and working out everyone's individual adjustments due to overtime, Sunday, rest day working etc may be quite an onerous task as they will all be paid at different rates of pay.

My pay date is next Friday 8th December. We get our payslip on the Wednesday. Bank processing will probably be done on Thursday. So they have about 4 working days maximum to work it all out.

Can I ask what may be a silly question but why wouldn't they just take 5% of the gross earnings? Does it matter what day it's been earnt

 

[Railwayowl80]

Me personally I’d rather be in work I don’t enjoy striking and I’d personally not continue to strike just so I could do a rdw and make more money that’s not what this was about T&C was always the goal well personally lol

 

[KM1991]

Can I ask what may be a silly question but why wouldn't they just take 5% of the gross earnings? Does it matter what day it's been earnt

I also would like to know why this can’t be done?

 

[800001]

What happens to the TSSA members who voted for 5%+4%? As they didn’t get the rise as they had to wait for RMT to agree a deal?

Will they now just get the 5%? As surely HR don’t know who is in what union?

 

[father_jack]

A MD from a TOC put in their weekly propaganda bulletin the following when the initial announcement of the referendum was made-

It was later anecdotally reported that that MD was displeased at the RDG agreeing what was nigh impossible.

I think those brothers and sisters whooping about getting "a Christmas bonus" may be whooping in vain.........

And answering my own post I've just been sent this from a fiend-

A TOC deputy MD said:
"
Given the amount of time the arrears covers and limitations with our payroll system, this is a complex process to calculate all premium hour payments and appropriate allowance arrears, and the payroll team need more time to do the calculations for our colleagues, so these will be paid in the 5 January pay run."

OOOPS.............

 

[Captain Chaos]

As I heard then. For GWR, the basic adjustment will be done for next week's pay and the overtime and Sundays affected etc will be in January, so yes, it is being done over 2 periods. With the bulk affected for next week.

 

[KM1991]

And answering my own post I've just been sent this from a fiend-

OOOPS.............

Everyone’s jumping into the higher tax bracket for that month then

 

[anthony263]

With an election within, probably, 12 months it might actually suit the Tories to show how well they can hold wages etc down. It might well please their typical voter. Don't forget that only a very small % of travellers use the trains, at least 80-90% of voters use cars or other alternatives.

March 2024 I've seen being floated about certain explains the tories suddenly finding the money

 

[Amnesiac]

Normally PayRoll have more time to work on the calculations ( i.e. the agreement is made and then it is agreed that it will be paid "on the first available" date, which may be 2 months away - not 1 week away!) and less of a period of time to go back and calculate.

Most calculations like this have to be done manually.

An adjustment to base salary is relatively easy.

Going back and working out everyone's individual adjustments due to overtime, Sunday, rest day working etc may be quite an onerous task as they will all be paid at different rates of pay.

My pay date is next Friday 8th December. We get our payslip on the Wednesday. Bank processing will probably be done on Thursday. So they have about 4 working days maximum to work it all out.

I would imagine they've been working on it since it was put to vote in anticipation of it being accepted. Be curious to see my payslip on Wednesday as like you, my payday is Friday 8th December

 

[thejuggler]

Everyone’s jumping into the higher tax bracket for that month then

They aren't because taxation is calculated on an annual salary basis.

 

[Peterthegreat]

They aren't because taxation is calculated on an annual salary basis.

Quite.

 

[father_jack]

They aren't because taxation is calculated on an annual salary basis.

Yes you are quite correct, and the loss of earnings from the strikes will have drawn even those whose earning are close to the higher bracket back already.

 

[Ashfordian6]

Everyone’s jumping into the higher tax bracket for that month then

That's not how taxation works over the whole tax year

Yes for those asking how much a average member has lost for most my colleagues especially those like myself who don’t do too much overtime I’ve actually gained more money as for every strike day lost I did a rest day work which pays a lot more , plus fair few strike days where at weekends so I’ve ended up with more money with rest day work in the week more weekends off especially Saturdays and a 5% pay increase backdated . There’s always plenty of overtime at my workplace especially since Covid with every new job role having to go through DFT first! Most will have ended up better off certainly not worse off.

Good point, you will now make an additional 5% gain on the overtime payments.

Congratulations on securing a sensible deal for 2022. Onwards to 2023 and restarting the battle.

I have no idea why the Government tried to deploy a scorched earth policy on this, when it is obvious that they were not going to win this! I have huge problems with them wasting tax payers money on something they were always going to lose.

 

[skyhigh]

I also would like to know why this can’t be done?

Can I ask what may be a silly question but why wouldn't they just take 5% of the gross earnings? Does it matter what day it's been earnt

Because it's not how maths works where enhanced payments are made. This includes rest days, overtime, Sunday working and other things.

For example - say for Sunday work a guard is paid at time +10% (so 110% pay). Using made up figures:
10 hours work at £15ph base rate so £16.50ph Sunday rate. This gives 10x16.50=£165.00 for the shift. Add 5% to the total amount and the back pay for that shift under your system would be £8.25

With the backdated rise the base rate would have been £15.75, with a £17.33 Sunday rate.
For the same shift as above - 10x17.33=£173.30. Subtract the amount already paid and the back pay that is really due is £8.30.

You would be underpaying the back pay by a small amount if you just applied the % increase to the gross.

 

[Pacerpilot]

The RMT refused to put a 5% no strings pay offer with no compulsory redundancies to members because they had to end the current dispute and enter a second phase of talks, even though they could reballot after three months. They claimed no union could ever accept such terms. Then, miraculously, seven months and lots of failed strike dates later, they are suddenly putting a deal to their members that, guess what, includes a remarkably familiar 5% pay offer, guarantee of no compulsory redundancies and a commitment to end the current dispute and enter fresh talks from February with the option to reballot down the line if needed. How that represents a huge loss for the RDG, as some are claiming, I'm not quite sure.

You've been told numerous times in numerous posts that this isn't the case. Yet you are still peddling this nonsense. Give it a rest. Unless you are actually Mark Harper incognito?

 

[Train_manager]

Everyone’s jumping into the higher tax bracket for that month then

It's called PAYE for a reason. Clue is in the name. Will let you figure it out.

 

[whoosh]

Was that the offer which originally got rejected by the senior team within the RMT in June 2022 without getting put to the members?

No. See below.

The RMT refused to put a 5% no strings pay offer with no compulsory redundancies to members because they had to end the current dispute and enter a second phase of talks, even though they could reballot after three months. They claimed no union could ever accept such terms. Then, miraculously, seven months and lots of failed strike dates later, they are suddenly putting a deal to their members that, guess what, includes a remarkably familiar 5% pay offer, guarantee of no compulsory redundancies and a commitment to end the current dispute and enter fresh talks from February with the option to reballot down the line if needed. How that represents a huge loss for the RDG, as some are claiming, I'm not quite sure.

Because the offer they refused to put to their members was for a two year deal, the second year of which was for 4% regardless of Terms and conditions changed in those second phase of talks. Some TOC would have had less changes than others, but all were to get the same rise. The offer was designed to be rejected.



The 5% no strings (that's 'no strings' for a year that's gone by already so hasn't had any strings applied anyway, before we make it sound like some sort of awesome deal) now on offer is a ONE year deal.
Talks for 2023's pay take place next year, crucially on a TOC by TOC basis, and there is no "all-in 4% limit on whoever you are whatever your grade and whatever conditions you are giving up".
Each TOC will now negotiate individually for pay and changes to terms and conditions for 2023's pay award. This is quite clearly not the same.


This has been explained to you before.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Because it's not how maths works where enhanced payments are made. This includes rest days, overtime, Sunday working and other things.

For example - say for Sunday work a guard is paid at time +10% (so 110% pay). Using made up figures:
10 hours work at £15ph base rate so £16.50ph Sunday rate. This gives 10x16.50=£165.00 for the shift. Add 5% to the total amount and the back pay for that shift under your system would be £8.25

With the backdated rise the base rate would have been £15.75, with a £17.33 Sunday rate.
For the same shift as above - 10x17.33=£173.30. Subtract the amount already paid and the back pay that is really due is £8.30.

You would be underpaying the back pay by a small amount if you just applied the % increase to the gross.

Also, they need to work it out before deductions such as pension, cycle2work schemes as they won't be increasing