Roundhouses in Europe and beyond...

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm currently travelling on ICE627 towards Nürnberg and just departed from Aschaffenberg Hbf. On leaving, we passed a large derelict roundhouse - something I didn't think would have survived in a country like Germany which invests in modernising their network (though as there's no premium on space compared to the UK, there's no need to demolish it!) So now I'm wondering: have any roundhouses in Europe survived in use either as a working facility or a museum (or a bit of both, like Barrow Hill) or even in other uses like the ones in Camden and Leeds?

 

[eastwestdivide]

There's one at the museum in Bochum, Germany. Google overhead view here: https://goo.gl/maps/ZaQVwQGagX42
And one in the yards at Ulm. Google maps again: https://goo.gl/maps/kPFrBpekjcB2
Both are less than "half a circle"
I'm sort of convinced that I've seen others, but they never really registered as particularly unusual.

 

[axlecounter]

Not really a rarity, nope,

 

[AndrewE]

There's a good railway museum in the one in Ljubljana...

 

[Taunton]

The Finnish Railway Museum at Hyvinkaa is in an old roundhouse (actually quarter-round), still connected to the network and the steam loco exhibits occasionally get out. It also still smells like a working steam loco facility.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@60.6257561,24.8491554,96m/data=!3m1!1e3

Helsinki had two, end-to-end, although no longer rail connected.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@60.1956278,24.9330019,369m/data=!3m1!1e3

The Polish semi-museum steam operation at Wolsztyn is based at another such facility

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...f00e244506bbcbe!8m2!3d52.1150435!4d16.1169851

I'm sure I've seen photos of electric loco depots in Italy which are roundhouses with wiring.

I think all these have external turntables. Internal turntables, especially multiple internal turntables within one building, seem to have been a British thing.

 

[30907]

They are standard in the Czech Republic, usually about 3/8 of a circle. Even a small depot like Klatovy has one, Ceske Budejovice has 2, Tabor and Cheb 1 (and that's only the ones I've seen).

 

[Iskra]

I've seen some in Italy. There is a big one East of Milan, I think there may also be one just outside Florence station. Visiting Italy is a bit like going back in time, they still have station pilots, LHCS that is released from the buffers by a second loco etc

 

[axlecounter]

Milano Smistamento has one: https://goo.gl/maps/x2GKpBocphQ2

Brugg: https://goo.gl/maps/XLFjALDgAdU2 (an SBB Historic Depot)

And many others...

But I'm curious about the "multiple internal turntables": what are we talking about here?

 

[Taunton]

But I'm curious about the "multiple internal turntables": what are we talking about here?

That's having more than one turntable inside a single, generally rectangular, building. Strictly it should not be a 'Roundhouse' if it is rectangular, but the same arrangement of tracks radiating from a turntable applies. There were ones with two, three or four turntables.

The GWR's Old Oak Common was probably the largest, with four turntables inside the building. As well as the stub tracks they connected to one another. Here's a diagram

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=old+oak+common+steam+shed&sa=X&dcr=0&biw=1366&bih=594&tbm=isch&source=iu&pf=m&ictx=1&fir=VFABod0HTYvEfM%3A%2CfAU0Aw2jDFBI9M%2C_&usg=__QKaU3Dw4AP4ejM-lsx4q_P7uMpY=&ved=0ahUKEwiqi5CIjO7WAhVrKsAKHYvtDlEQ9QEIPjAF#imgrc=VFABod0HTYvEfM:

Upsides of a roundhouse are the ability to get any loco in/out without disturbing the others, the useful storage or office space as the stub tracks splay apart, and avoiding the need for a separate turntable for turning. Downsides are the difficulty of getting an engine out of steam out with a pilot loco, and (unfortunately) locos occasionally falling into the pit, which not only is its own problem but stops all the other locos getting out. The US Trains Magazine once had a spread of photos of such incidents, one of which included the breakdown crane itself having gone over the edge into the turntable pit. How that got recovered was not recorded.

 

[70014IronDuke]

...
The GWR's Old Oak Common was probably the largest, with four turntables inside the building. As well as the stub tracks they connected to one another. Here's a diagram

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=old+oak+common+steam+shed&sa=X&dcr=0&biw=1366&bih=594&tbm=isch&source=iu&pf=m&ictx=1&fir=VFABod0HTYvEfM%3A%2CfAU0Aw2jDFBI9M%2C_&usg=__QKaU3Dw4AP4ejM-lsx4q_P7uMpY=&ved=0ahUKEwiqi5CIjO7WAhVrKsAKHYvtDlEQ9QEIPjAF#imgrc=VFABod0HTYvEfM:
...

Wasn't Oxley of a similar type? Possibly only three turntables? I remember bunking it in 1965, ie well past its prime - and still being amazed at the size of the place and wondering what it must have been like just four years earlier, before the advent of Cl 52s on the Snow Hill line.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I'm currently travelling on ICE627 towards Nürnberg and just departed from Aschaffenberg Hbf. On leaving, we passed a large derelict roundhouse - something I didn't think would have survived in a country like Germany which invests in modernising their network (though as there's no premium on space compared to the UK, there's no need to demolish it!) So now I'm wondering: have any roundhouses in Europe survived in use either as a working facility or a museum (or a bit of both, like Barrow Hill) or even in other uses like the ones in Camden and Leeds?

Germany and German-influenced Europe LOVED roundhouses, or 3/8 roundhouses as someone else has said.

I suspect there are scores still extant between Gdansk and Trieste, mostly still in use to house diesels, snow ploughs and track machines.

 

[Iskra]

Germany and German-influenced Europe LOVED roundhouses, or 3/8 roundhouses as someone else has said.

I suspect there are scores still extant between Gdansk and Trieste, mostly still in use to house diesels, snow ploughs and track machines.

...That reminds me, I've also seen at least one in Sweden earlier this year.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Well, I stand corrected! Didn't see the one at Cheb earlier as it was dark. Still travelling towards Prague on a train that is disappointingly without the diagrammed restaurant car which was removed due to a fault... they did leave the leaflets out though, to tease me with the idea of a can of Budvar for the equivalent of about 85p!

Also running late due to what Russians would call a "Gopnik incident" which required the Policie to attend. More on that in the trip reports section in the coming days...

 

[MarcVD]

There are still quite a lot of them in France, some still with rails and connected to the national network. Do a Google search for the French word 'rotonde' for more details.

 

[theageofthetra]

A few in Japan - including the one at the railway museum in Kyoto.

 

[AlexNL]

The Dutch city of Tilburg has one, although it is no longer in use by the railways. The former NedTrain TMD area is being redeveloped, the roundhouse ('polygonale loods') will be repurposed as a restaurant, the turntable will become a revolving terrace.

 

[Groningen]

Remains of a roundhouse can be seen at Bad Nieuweschans at Google Maps: 53.185544, 7.202196.

 

[gysev]

Roundhouses were very uncommon in Belgium, but one still exists at Mariembourg, used by the CFV3V tourist line.

 

[Gordon]

Plenty of roundhouses survive in Europe. Some big ones survive in Germany, but some may be now out of use (Bebra and Würzburg came to mind but they now look unused in photos).

In France, some major depots still have roundhouses, such as Chalindrey, Chambéry and Villeneuve

Even in Switzerland, where steam was phased out in the early 1960s, there are still quite a few roundhouses in existence, some still used even if only for departmental use.
.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It makes sense that they're quite widespread when I think about it... at first thought though, they seemed like a peculiarly British solution so I was surprised that there were so many. The Europeans seem to have looked after theirs better too, but then for the most part they've looked after their railways better!

 

[duesselmartin]

It makes sense that they're quite widespread when I think about it... at first thought though, they seemed like a peculiarly British solution so I was surprised that there were so many. The Europeans seem to have looked after theirs better too, but then for the most part they've looked after their railways better!

it really depends what European country your looking at. Switzerland is of course non plus ultra.
Germany, the quality of service is certainly declining, the French concentrate on HSLs, the Spanish neglected their system, the Balkans are fragmented by war and/or poverty. Benelux is doing rather well. But that is going somewhat OT

 

[Bigchris]

When I called in to Nuremberg Rbf last year the roundhouse was very much still in use. There's one that's full of preserved stock and another that's still in daily use to house freight locos (deisel and electric). The other one further up was flattened a while back and now there's a massive square shed on the site.

Also a few still in daily use in Austria, Villach and Salzburg are 2 that spring to mind.

 

[Bigchris]

Oh, and in Poland there's a little one on the outskirts of Krakow that has some rusting steam locos scattered around outside and some private owner diesel shunters that are still kept inside.

 

[30907]

It makes sense that they're quite widespread when I think about it... at first thought though, they seemed like a peculiarly British solution so I was surprised that there were so many.

I think the (almost) fully enclosed roundhouse is distinctively UK, but not all that common (GW, MR, NER come to mind) - the mainland ones are more typically semi-circular (or a bit less), like Guildford on the LSW (which itself is unusual), but I am sure someone can prove me wrong.

 

[Gordon]

I think the (almost) fully enclosed roundhouse is distinctively UK, but I am sure someone can prove me wrong.

Yep! here we go.

I know of at least one - Chambery (SNCF) is fully enclosed (listed building)

I am also reminded of the web site which lists SNCF type P roundhouses (the famous majestic concrete type built at the end of WWII to replaced bombed predecessors). These iconic roundhouses are legendary and Chalindrey, Villeneuve, Avignon survive in service.

 

[Taunton]

I actually associate them with the USA more than Europe in steam days; even the common expression for a loco shed there is "roundhouse". For new build they didn't really survive the end of steam, when it was no longer required to turn locos each trip, and the typical US multi-unit approach was a nuisance to have to break up for turntable access.

Rudyard Kipling, in his classic story ".007" about locomotives near Boston refers to their depot as such

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2569/2569-h/2569-h.htm#link2H_4_0009

 

[rf_ioliver]

Quite a few left in Finland...here's a 106 pages of photographs: http://vaunut.org/kuvat/?tag0=17|Rautatieinfra|Veturitalli&p=0 - you'll find quite a few in there ( veturitalli = locomotive stable )

Here's a couple I found:

http://vaunut.org/kuva/117911 - Jyväskylä's old roundhouse, now a cultural center
http://vaunut.org/kuva/117701 - Pasila (Helsinki) lower yard ... seems to be used by the museum train owners quite a bit
http://vaunut.org/kuva/114959 - another view of the above
http://vaunut.org/kuva/116599 - Toijala Locomotive Museum
http://vaunut.org/kuva/114428 - again Toijala
http://vaunut.org/kuva/113331 - and again (this isn't a museum train)
http://vaunut.org/kuva/121410 - Karjaa
http://vaunut.org/kuva/113417 - Vammala from 1968 - probably long gone now
http://vaunut.org/kuva/112609 - Juankoski "Pienen Veturin Talli" - Small Locomotive Stable
http://vaunut.org/kuva/97891 - Porvoo - another museum

t.

Ian

 

[70014IronDuke]

..
I am also reminded of the web site which lists SNCF type P roundhouses (the famous majestic concrete type built at the end of WWII to replaced bombed predecessors). These iconic roundhouses are legendary and Chalindrey, Villeneuve, Avignon survive in service.

You have made me think (a tough job ) It was a long time ago, but I seem to remember probalby all of the French depots I visited were roundhouses, or part roundhouses. Boulogne, Paris Jonchorelles (spelling?) and Sarreguemines. As I say, it was a long time ago - 46-47 years, so I could be wrong.

 

[Groningen]

Correct spelling seems to be Joncherolles. There is a french Wikipedia page.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Well I guess I've started interesting discussion, even if it was under a rather Anglocentric misapprehension!